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The objective mind

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untermensche

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The objective mind is the physical creation of the mind by a brain as opposed to the subjective mind which is the individual experience of a mind.

So while we all have different subjective minds, sometimes very different, the objective creation of that mind should be the same in everyone.

There should only be one way to create a mind, not a different way in every different mind.

To claim knowledge of the objective mind means you understand the specific activity that creates the subjective mind.

It is not an understanding of how doing things to the brain changes or creates subjective reports. That is not an understanding of the objective mind.

My claim is that the objective mind is not understood at all.

To answer the claim requires talking about specific neurophysiology and specifically how this neurophysiology creates the subjective mind.

Throwing in a bunch of stuff that is not a specific physiology and how that physiology leads to the subjective mind is a distraction and hand waving.

Is the objective mind known and if so what specifically is it?

What specific brain activity is it that creates the subjective mind? How does this activity result in the subjective mind?

What is the objective mind?
 
DBT said:
The premise of the OP is a case of hand waving.
Click to expand...

Premise?

It is a question.

What specific objective activity (the objective mind) is the cause of the subjective mind?

I don't expect more than I'm getting.

That is the point.
 
fromderinside said:
Do blunt instruments have points?
Click to expand...

A dull pencil can be easily sharpened.

If one has the tools to do it.

But there is nothing blunt about the question. Nothing more blunt than any scientific question in the absence of any explanation.

It is just something we do not understand in any way.

That is the point.
 
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The mind is real, and with no material brain, there would be no mind, but the mind is not made of material. It's intangible.
 
The mind does exist.

So does the brain.

The question is : How specifically is one related to the other?
 
untermensche said:
The mind does exist.

So does the brain.

The question is : How specifically is one related to the other?
Click to expand...
Yes, the mind does exist.
Yes, the brain does exist.

There can be a brain and no mind, but the inverse is not true. If there is a mind, then there is a brain, but not the other way around.

The brain is material and physical. It's tangible and visible.
The mind is none of those things.

A functioning brain gives rise to a mind, most certainly, but things are not nearly as clear-cut as scientists open only to physical observations.

Any spookiness is a function of language, not the supernatural.
 
You have not demonstrated you have any idea what the objective mind is.

You are making blind guesses.

It is true there is some unknown association with a brain.
 
untermensche said:
You have not demonstrated you have any idea what the objective mind is.

You are making blind guesses.

It is true there is some unknown association with a brain.
Click to expand...

The very first part of your first sentence in the original post of this thread reads, "The objective mind is the physical creation of the mind by a brain [...].

I object to your notion that the mind is a physical creation. The mind is not something that is physical. The physical processes of the brain gives rise to a mind, but the mind itself is not physical. And no, I'm not failing to distinguish between a brain and functioning processes. Both of those are physical, but a mind is different than even that.

The abstraction is difficult to grasp. The underlying physical processes that occur amidst the brain and central nervous system is most certainly physical, but the referent to the immaterial intangibles are more a function of language than brain processes alone.
 
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fast said:
The mind is real, and with no material brain, there would be no mind, but the mind is not made of material. It's intangible.
Click to expand...

The brain mind duality yet again. The motion of video is an illusion of fast changing single images. The mind as independent is
a way of speaking about mind, but too is an illusion.

It is well known that damhe to specific parts of the brain have specific effects. We know drugs alter states of mind.

Mind is a function of physical processes. undernench mission in life is to find an argument around that.
 
I object to your notion that the mind is a physical creation.
Click to expand...

You are right in some ways.

It is true there are three things.

1. The brain
2. The activity of the brain
3. The end result of some of the activity, the mind.

But the question of this thread is about #2.

What specific activity results in a mind?

A lot of brain activity has nothing to do with the mind.

What fraction of brain activity results in a mind and how exactly does this activity result in a mind?

That is what I am asking.

Whether the mind is physical or not requires knowing what it is objectively.
 
steve_bank said:
fast said:
The mind is real, and with no material brain, there would be no mind, but the mind is not made of material. It's intangible.
Click to expand...

The brain mind duality yet again. The motion of video is an illusion of fast changing single images. The mind as independent is
a way of speaking about mind, but too is an illusion.

It is well known that damhe to specific parts of the brain have specific effects. We know drugs alter states of mind.

Mind is a function of physical processes. undernench mission in life is to find an argument around that.
Click to expand...

The mind is no illusion.

It is the thing used to know about illusions.

It is the thing used to move the arm at will.

It comes about because of some kind of activity.

The questions of this thread are:

What specific activity results in a mind and how does a mind result from this activity?
 
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