"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"

[Rhea]

Perhaps the realization that women are competent adults capable of making their own choices before choosing sex that results in pregnancy?

Maybe that's it? Women are competent adults, capable of both making their own choices and dealing with the results of their own choices? They're not victims of their progeny or the men who help create the progeny?

How about that? Women are free to choose their own sex lives. But also responsible for the choices that they make.
Tom

So you subscribe to the Scarlett O’Hara marriage compact? When she is done wanting children, no more sex for the husband, ever.


I dunno, guessing the Adult Men out there aren’t really in your corner on this…

 

[Toni]

Yeah yeah.

That's exactly what I meant by

women are competent adults capable of making their own choices before choosing sex that results in pregnancy?

We've been around this block before. I'm not interested in doing it again.
Tom

Just not after they have sex? Does sex render women idiots? Or is it pregnancy?

 

[Rhea]

We've been around this block before. I'm not interested in doing it again.
Tom

?? Then why did you post in the discussion thread if you only wanted to transmit but not receive…

Oh, wait, we’re talking about women’s rights. Ope. Man wants to proclaim and hear only silent acquiescence in return.

 

[Toni]

Yeah yeah.

That's exactly what I meant by

women are competent adults capable of making their own choices before choosing sex that results in pregnancy?

We've been around this block before. I'm not interested in doing it again.
Tom

Roe V Wade was decided in 1973.

Women aren't interested in going around that block again.

 

[Rhea]

Roe V Wade was decided in 1973.

Women aren't interested in going around that block again.

Griswold v. Connecticut Was decided in 1965. We aren’t interested in going around that block again, either.

 

[prideandfall]

Again, what changed the minds of so many women who previously supported the right of other women to have control over their bodies?

Perhaps the realization that women are competent adults capable of making their own choices before choosing sex that results in pregnancy?

Maybe that's it? Women are competent adults, capable of both making their own choices and dealing with the results of their own choices? They're not victims of their progeny or the men who help create the progeny?

How about that? Women are free to choose their own sex lives. But also responsible for the choices that they make.
Tom

explain how an abortion is not being responsible for the choices one makes.

 

[Toni]

Again, what changed the minds of so many women who previously supported the right of other women to have control over their bodies?

Perhaps the realization that women are competent adults capable of making their own choices before choosing sex that results in pregnancy?

Maybe that's it? Women are competent adults, capable of both making their own choices and dealing with the results of their own choices? They're not victims of their progeny or the men who help create the progeny?

How about that? Women are free to choose their own sex lives. But also responsible for the choices that they make.
Tom

explain how an abortion is not being responsible for the choices one makes.

 

[laughing dog]

Yeah yeah.

That's exactly what I meant by

women are competent adults capable of making their own choices before choosing sex that results in pregnancy?

We've been around this block before. I'm not interested in doing it again.
Tom

How ironic that competent adult capable of choosing to post "women are competent adults capable of making their own choices before choosing sex that results in pregnancy" will not take responsibility for his choice by giving a relevant reply.

 

[RVonse]

Again, what changed the minds of so many women who previously supported the right of other women to have control over their bodies?

Perhaps the realization that women are competent adults capable of making their own choices before choosing sex that results in pregnancy?

Maybe that's it? Women are competent adults, capable of both making their own choices and dealing with the results of their own choices? They're not victims of their progeny or the men who help create the progeny?

How about that? Women are free to choose their own sex lives. But also responsible for the choices that they make.
Tom

And the girls and women who don’t choose to have sex at all no didn’t choose to have sex the time that the man’s ejaculation resulted in pregnancy—you know: those who were raped. Or who choose to use birth control that failed? Or have sex with men who say they will use a condom but do not? Or who otherwise sabotage her birth control?

There are over 15 different methods to prevent pregnancy listed here: https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control. With all those available choices its pretty hard to make any excuses for a rational adult in today's world. A normal woman should be able to prevent a pregnancy under most every circumstance you can dream up. I might believe such behavior coming from a 5 yr old preschooler....but certainly not an adult.

Is that really how you believe society should continue to view adult women Toni? Or should we expect woman to conduct themselves responsibly? Is it not reasonable for society to expect a woman who does not want a child to not get pregnant in the first place? I think it is reasonable.

What about the women who learn that the pregnancy cannot result in a living child? Or a child whose life will be anything other than filled with pain and suffering before they die? What about the women who have ectopic pregnancies? Who are not women but 11 or12 year old girls? Whose pregnancies cause serious threat to their health or very lives?

What about the guy who jumped off a 20 floor apartment and survived the fall? There is always going to be an exception to everything. Maybe some pregnancy's should be terminated and for the record I think the government should stay out of all of them and leave it all up to the woman, the father, and her priest.

The point is that if a woman really does not want to get pregnant in the first place she WON'T get pregnant. And no, it does not matter what you think the guy does or does not do, she already has control over her body not to get it pregnant in the first place. That is what I call acting responsibility. Doing the right thing in the first place.

 

[laughing dog]

There are over 15 different methods to prevent pregnancy listed here: https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control. With all those available choices its pretty hard to make any excuses for a rational adult in today's world. A normal woman should be able to prevent a pregnancy under most every circumstance you can dream up. I might believe such behavior coming from a 5 yr old preschooler....but certainly not an adult.

Is that really how you believe society should continue to view adult women Toni? Or should we expect woman to conduct themselves responsibly? Is it not reasonable for society to expect a woman who does not want a child to not get pregnant in the first place? I think it is reasonable.

What about the women who learn that the pregnancy cannot result in a living child? Or a child whose life will be anything other than filled with pain and suffering before they die? What about the women who have ectopic pregnancies? Who are not women but 11 or12 year old girls? Whose pregnancies cause serious threat to their health or very lives?

What about the guy who jumped off a 20 floor apartment and survived the fall? There is always going to be an exception to everything. Maybe some pregnancy's should be terminated and for the record I think the government should stay out of all of them and leave it all up to the woman, the father, and her priest.

The point is that if a woman really does not want to get pregnant in the first place she WON'T get pregnant. And no, it does not matter what you think the guy does or does not do, she already has control over her body not to get it pregnant in the first place. That is what I call acting responsibility. Doing the right thing in the first place.

Do you agree that
1) A normal man should be able to prevent impregnation in most circumstances , and
2)if a man really doesn’t want to father a child, he already has control over his body?

 

[prideandfall]

Or should we expect woman to conduct themselves responsibly? Is it not reasonable for society to expect a woman who does not want a child to not get pregnant in the first place? I think it is reasonable.

explain how an abortion is not a reasonable and responsible way of dealing with an unwanted pregnancy.

The point is that if a woman really does not want to get pregnant in the first place she WON'T get pregnant. And no, it does not matter what you think the guy does or does not do, she already has control over her body not to get it pregnant in the first place. That is what I call acting responsibility. Doing the right thing in the first place.

an abortion IS the right thing in the first place - you're stopping an unwanted child.

there's literally zero difference.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There are over 15 different methods to prevent pregnancy listed here: https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control. With all those available choices its pretty hard to make any excuses for a rational adult in today's world. A normal woman should be able to prevent a pregnancy under most every circumstance you can dream up. I might believe such behavior coming from a 5 yr old preschooler....but certainly not an adult.

Clearly this is not how the world actually works. Preventing unwanted pregnancies from the beginning is a great way to handling this, but it doesn't always work, for whatever reason.

And isn't it funny, in a crush my own skull with a plat of cinder blocks sort of way over how personal responsibility seems to have polar importance regarding the Covid-19 vaccine and abortion.

The point is that if a woman really does not want to get pregnant in the first place she WON'T get pregnant. And no, it does not matter what you think the guy does or does not do, she already has control over her body not to get it pregnant in the first place.

Usually, except when she does. Especially married women... except, of course, when they do get accidentally pregnant.

 

[Toni]

There are over 15 different methods to prevent pregnancy listed here: https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control. With all those available choices its pretty hard to make any excuses for a rational adult in today's world. A normal woman should be able to prevent a pregnancy under most every circumstance you can dream up. I might believe such behavior coming from a 5 yr old preschooler....but certainly not an adult.

Is that really how you believe society should continue to view adult women Toni? Or should we expect woman to conduct themselves responsibly? Is it not reasonable for society to expect a woman who does not want a child to not get pregnant in the first place? I think it is reasonable.

What about the women who learn that the pregnancy cannot result in a living child? Or a child whose life will be anything other than filled with pain and suffering before they die? What about the women who have ectopic pregnancies? Who are not women but 11 or12 year old girls? Whose pregnancies cause serious threat to their health or very lives?

What about the guy who jumped off a 20 floor apartment and survived the fall? There is always going to be an exception to everything. Maybe some pregnancy's should be terminated and for the record I think the government should stay out of all of them and leave it all up to the woman, the father, and her priest.

The point is that if a woman really does not want to get pregnant in the first place she WON'T get pregnant. And no, it does not matter what you think the guy does or does not do, she already has control over her body not to get it pregnant in the first place. That is what I call acting responsibility. Doing the right thing in the first place.

Hi. I really hate to crush your deeply held fantasy that you were conceived in an act of love that was shared as only an act of love in a deliberate attempt to conceive just you but there's a really really good chance that you, along with most of the rest of us posting on this board, came into existence because of a birth control failure.

It could be that in the heat of passion, a condom or a diaphram was not utilized as planned. It could be that the heat of passion displaced one or either. Or your mother could be one of the small percentage of women whose birth control, properly and faithfully utilized, was not effective.

Please look at the failure rate of every single means of birth control and look at the failure rate. None of those means of birth control are 100% effective. Hell, I have a friend whose family calls him the miracle baby because he was conceived AFTER his mother had a tubal--something that is passingly rare.

And please look at actual statistics of who gets an abortion. A lot of them are married women (and always have been). But a bunch of them are teenagers and very young women who are more likely to be pressured to not use a condom 'just this one time' or to be slightly less careful about using whatever birth control they use or not having access to birth control. Or being raped, as happens to married women and 80 year old women as well.

Trust me: women and girls get pregnant when they really don't want to. All. The. Time.

 

[RVonse]

There are over 15 different methods to prevent pregnancy listed here: https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control. With all those available choices its pretty hard to make any excuses for a rational adult in today's world. A normal woman should be able to prevent a pregnancy under most every circumstance you can dream up. I might believe such behavior coming from a 5 yr old preschooler....but certainly not an adult.

Is that really how you believe society should continue to view adult women Toni? Or should we expect woman to conduct themselves responsibly? Is it not reasonable for society to expect a woman who does not want a child to not get pregnant in the first place? I think it is reasonable.

What about the women who learn that the pregnancy cannot result in a living child? Or a child whose life will be anything other than filled with pain and suffering before they die? What about the women who have ectopic pregnancies? Who are not women but 11 or12 year old girls? Whose pregnancies cause serious threat to their health or very lives?

What about the guy who jumped off a 20 floor apartment and survived the fall? There is always going to be an exception to everything. Maybe some pregnancy's should be terminated and for the record I think the government should stay out of all of them and leave it all up to the woman, the father, and her priest.

The point is that if a woman really does not want to get pregnant in the first place she WON'T get pregnant. And no, it does not matter what you think the guy does or does not do, she already has control over her body not to get it pregnant in the first place. That is what I call acting responsibility. Doing the right thing in the first place.

Do you agree that
1) A normal man should be able to prevent impregnation in most circumstances

Yes I do. And that is saying something even more when you consider how many less contreception options there are for men then there are for women.

, and
2)if a man really doesn’t want to father a child, he already has control over his body?

It is biologically impossible to say this. But if it were possible for a man to impregnate himself to bear a child in his own body, I would agree that he has complete control over whether he can get pregnant or not.

 

[RVonse]

Or should we expect woman to conduct themselves responsibly? Is it not reasonable for society to expect a woman who does not want a child to not get pregnant in the first place? I think it is reasonable.

explain how an abortion is not a reasonable and responsible way of dealing with an unwanted pregnancy.

The point is that if a woman really does not want to get pregnant in the first place she WON'T get pregnant. And no, it does not matter what you think the guy does or does not do, she already has control over her body not to get it pregnant in the first place. That is what I call acting responsibility. Doing the right thing in the first place.

an abortion IS the right thing in the first place - you're stopping an unwanted child.

there's literally zero difference.

I don't have a problem with abortion when its needed as long as the mother and father are consenting to it.

I do have a problem with abortion being used as birth control because of irresponsible adults.

 

[RVonse]

Trust me: women and girls get pregnant when they really don't want to. All. The. Time.

If the statistical odds given by my link to planned parenthood are to believed, there are many more accidents then there should be.

 

[RVonse]

Preventing unwanted pregnancies from the beginning is a great way to handling this, but it doesn't always work, for whatever reason.

That is what our society needs to work on.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Preventing unwanted pregnancies from the beginning is a great way to handling this, but it doesn't always work, for whatever reason.

That is what our society needs to work on.

You mean improve our society by forcing women to endure unwanted pregnancies?

 

[DrZoidberg]

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/5/15/1857976/--The-Only-Moral-Abortion-is-My-Abortion-an-article-by-Joyce-Arthur

View attachment 34773

in 1981, 24% of women who had abortions said they were morally wrong. Half of all women that have abortions describe themselves as born-again Christian, Evangelical Christian, or Catholic. I get so angry at the hypocrisy of the women holding the black signs in this photo. They got to choose, but want to remove that right from others.

The link above is to a copyrighted piece about anti-abortion protestors who themselves have abortions. It begins with this.:

When the Anti-Choice Choose

By Joyce Arthur (copyright © September 2000)

Abortion is a highly personal decision that many women are sure they'll never have to think about until they're suddenly faced with an unexpected pregnancy. But this can happen to anyone, including women who are strongly anti-choice. So what does an anti-choice woman do when she experiences an unwanted pregnancy herself? Often, she will grin and bear it, so to speak, but frequently, she opts for the solution she would deny to other women -- abortion.

In the spring of 2000, I collected the following anecdotes directly from abortion doctors and other clinic staff in North America, Australia, and Europe. The stories are presented in the providers' own words, with minor editing for grammar, clarity, and brevity. Names have been omitted to protect privacy.

"I have done several abortions on women who have regularly picketed my clinics, including a 16 year old schoolgirl who came back to picket the day after her abortion, about three years ago. During her whole stay at the clinic, we felt that she was not quite right, but there were no real warning bells. She insisted that the abortion was her idea and assured us that all was OK. She went through the procedure very smoothly and was discharged with no problems. A quite routine operation. Next morning she was with her mother and several school mates in front of the clinic with the usual anti posters and chants. It appears that she got the abortion she needed and still displayed the appropriate anti views expected of her by her parents, teachers, and peers." (Physician, Australia)

Standard hypocrisy on display.

A lot of women who have abortions develop depressions and other serious psychiatric disorders. A lot of women who have spontaneous abortions develop that. A lot of women who give birth to children have that as well. The hormones involved in pregnancy are extremely powerful. Which trumps any philosophical hair splitting.

I've since long ago learned not to get involved in discussions about abortions. As far as I'm concerned this is a women's only discussion topic and men shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trust me: women and girls get pregnant when they really don't want to. All. The. Time.

If the statistical odds given by my link to planned parenthood are to believed, there are many more accidents then there should be.

Certainly, there are more accidental pregnancies than there should be. Some people don't make the best choices sometimes. Of course, other people have been using contraception and they have that one time it doesn't work.

And really, your post is being disingenuous, as there is likely no viable 'accidental' pregnancy threshold you'd allow an abortion. You are just using the accidental pregnancy thing to blame women for getting pregnant and want to make having to have a child their punishment. A lot easier to force people to do something when you make them the heel.