"The Only Thing That Stops a Bad Guy With a Gun" Narrative Falls Apart in Uvalde

[Ford]

I am at a loss.

It is no secret that the police response to the school shooter was inept (to put it mildly), but this new report from The Texas Tribune and Pro Publica shows that, somehow, it was even worse.

The NRA and pro-gun politicians have drilled into our head that if we just have more armed "good guys" at the ready, this whole "mass shooting" problem would be solved in short order. This hits close to home as I had friends who had to duck and cover in the 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting, and used to live in El Paso and know the area where the 2019 mass shooting happened very well.

Audio obtained by The Texas Tribune and ProPublica shows just how long police and dispatchers likely knew that children and teachers were in danger before taking action at Robb Elementary School.

This report (and it is not easy to read) puts the lie to the notion that if we just had more "good guys with guns" at schools, it would all be made better.

 

[Oleg]

I am at a loss.

It is no secret that the police response to the school shooter was inept (to put it mildly), but this new report from The Texas Tribune and Pro Publica shows that, somehow, it was even worse.

The NRA and pro-gun politicians have drilled into our head that if we just have more armed "good guys" at the ready, this whole "mass shooting" problem would be solved in short order. This hits close to home as I had friends who had to duck and cover in the 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting, and used to live in El Paso and know the area where the 2019 mass shooting happened very well.

Audio obtained by The Texas Tribune and ProPublica shows just how long police and dispatchers likely knew that children and teachers were in danger before taking action at Robb Elementary School.

This report (and it is not easy to read) puts the lie to the notion that if we just had more "good guys with guns" at schools, it would all be made better.

That’s one interpretation. The other is government ineptitude in protecting the public.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I am at a loss.

It is no secret that the police response to the school shooter was inept (to put it mildly), but this new report from The Texas Tribune and Pro Publica shows that, somehow, it was even worse.

The NRA and pro-gun politicians have drilled into our head that if we just have more armed "good guys" at the ready, this whole "mass shooting" problem would be solved in short order. This hits close to home as I had friends who had to duck and cover in the 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting, and used to live in El Paso and know the area where the 2019 mass shooting happened very well.

Audio obtained by The Texas Tribune and ProPublica shows just how long police and dispatchers likely knew that children and teachers were in danger before taking action at Robb Elementary School.

This report (and it is not easy to read) puts the lie to the notion that if we just had more "good guys with guns" at schools, it would all be made better.

That’s one interpretation. The other is government ineptitude in protecting the public.

Well... in Texas.

 

[Oleg]

I am at a loss.

It is no secret that the police response to the school shooter was inept (to put it mildly), but this new report from The Texas Tribune and Pro Publica shows that, somehow, it was even worse.

The NRA and pro-gun politicians have drilled into our head that if we just have more armed "good guys" at the ready, this whole "mass shooting" problem would be solved in short order. This hits close to home as I had friends who had to duck and cover in the 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting, and used to live in El Paso and know the area where the 2019 mass shooting happened very well.

Audio obtained by The Texas Tribune and ProPublica shows just how long police and dispatchers likely knew that children and teachers were in danger before taking action at Robb Elementary School.

This report (and it is not easy to read) puts the lie to the notion that if we just had more "good guys with guns" at schools, it would all be made better.

That’s one interpretation. The other is government ineptitude in protecting the public.

Well... in Texas.

Which is embarrassing.

 

[Jarhyn]

I am at a loss.

It is no secret that the police response to the school shooter was inept (to put it mildly), but this new report from The Texas Tribune and Pro Publica shows that, somehow, it was even worse.

The NRA and pro-gun politicians have drilled into our head that if we just have more armed "good guys" at the ready, this whole "mass shooting" problem would be solved in short order. This hits close to home as I had friends who had to duck and cover in the 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting, and used to live in El Paso and know the area where the 2019 mass shooting happened very well.

Audio obtained by The Texas Tribune and ProPublica shows just how long police and dispatchers likely knew that children and teachers were in danger before taking action at Robb Elementary School.

This report (and it is not easy to read) puts the lie to the notion that if we just had more "good guys with guns" at schools, it would all be made better.

That’s one interpretation. The other is government ineptitude in protecting the public.

Well... in Texas.

Which is embarrassing.

For Texas, whose government believes in the 'good guy with gun' narrative, yes it is embarrassing.

Seeing as we see no such issues, or far fewer, in places where there is no such narrative (or less of one) it only serves as a vehicle to shame such 'gun-saturated shitholes of violence', not governments in general.

 

[bilby]

I am at a loss.

It is no secret that the police response to the school shooter was inept (to put it mildly), but this new report from The Texas Tribune and Pro Publica shows that, somehow, it was even worse.

The NRA and pro-gun politicians have drilled into our head that if we just have more armed "good guys" at the ready, this whole "mass shooting" problem would be solved in short order. This hits close to home as I had friends who had to duck and cover in the 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting, and used to live in El Paso and know the area where the 2019 mass shooting happened very well.

Audio obtained by The Texas Tribune and ProPublica shows just how long police and dispatchers likely knew that children and teachers were in danger before taking action at Robb Elementary School.

This report (and it is not easy to read) puts the lie to the notion that if we just had more "good guys with guns" at schools, it would all be made better.

That’s one interpretation. The other is government ineptitude in protecting the public.

Well... in Texas.

Which is embarrassing.

Very embarrassing for advocates of 'small government'.

It seems that starving the beast simply renders it incapable of doing its job.

 

[Oleg]

For Texas, whose government believes in the 'good guy with gun' narrative, yes it is embarrassing.

Ya know, there are plenty of examples of armed citizens stopping bad guys. That there were cowards in Uvalde doesn’t change that.

‘Good gal with a gun’: Woman with pistol kills gunman at party

Charleston Police are releasing new details on a Wednesday night shooting investigation.

www.wowktv.com

 

[Oleg]

Very embarrassing for advocates of 'small government'.

Huh? Did you not see the CCTV in the school with all those officers?

 

[Jarhyn]

For Texas, whose government believes in the 'good guy with gun' narrative, yes it is embarrassing.

Ya know, there are plenty of examples of armed citizens stopping bad guys. That there were cowards in Uvalde doesn’t change that.

Yet case study can at best establish instance existence, not trend.

The mere existence of armed, but untrained and badly disciplined police forces who don't help matters sets bad precedent.

There are some well-explored minimum standards around access to and use of force that aren't being respected by the gung-ho gun groper governments.

The issue is that when you recognize that police need extensive training, in both weapons use and discipline, to be so heavily armed, one comes to a conclusion that heavily armed populations should also be expected to be trained and disciplined in the use of weapons.

I personally wouldn't mind weapons/use of force education, and de-escalation to be taught in schools to all students, either.

Maybe then, as they often do with with regards to sex and sexual education, they might abstain until a later age and be more responsible on average when they engage with armaments.

It would also increase the bar to becoming a bully, as weak bullies cannot succeed in a strong population.

Obviously, this would mean that the QOP would howl about it like a stuck pig.

 

[Oleg]

The issue is that when you recognize that police need extensive training, in both weapons use and discipline, to be so heavily armed, one comes to a conclusion that heavily armed populations should also be expected to be trained and disciplined in the use of weapons.

The lady in WV who shot that active shooter had a pistol. She was not “heavily armed.” Yet she had more cajones than an entire police department. If government cannot perform the most basic functions, then people have the natural right to defend themselves. Only tyrannies deny people such a birthright.

 

[bilby]

If government cannot perform the most basic functions, then people have the natural right to

...elect a different government that can.

The existence of a shit government in Texas is not evidence that governments in general are shit, it's evidence that Texans vote for shit.

 

[Oleg]

If government cannot perform the most basic functions, then people have the natural right to

...elect a different government that can.

The existence of a shit government in Texas is not evidence that governments in general are shit, it's evidence that Texans vote for shit.

And until we have reached that utopian government, people have a right to defend themselves.

 

[bilby]

If government cannot perform the most basic functions, then people have the natural right to

...elect a different government that can.

The existence of a shit government in Texas is not evidence that governments in general are shit, it's evidence that Texans vote for shit.

And until we have reached that utopian government, people have a right to defend themselves.

Take a quick glance outside the USA for a minute. There's just such a utopia immediately to your north.

People don't have the right to double down on their stupid; It just makes things worse.

 

[Oleg]

Take a quick glance outside the USA for a minute. There's just such a utopia immediately to your north.

Different demographics. And to say that Canadians after how their own government treated them during Covid must be a joke.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

If government cannot perform the most basic functions, then people have the natural right to

...elect a different government that can.

The existence of a shit government in Texas is not evidence that governments in general are shit, it's evidence that Texans vote for shit.

And until we have reached that utopian government, people have a right to defend themselves.

Learn something everyday. Here I've been thinking that in right wing Utopia everyone carries a gun.

 

[Oleg]

If government cannot perform the most basic functions, then people have the natural right to

...elect a different government that can.

The existence of a shit government in Texas is not evidence that governments in general are shit, it's evidence that Texans vote for shit.

And until we have reached that utopian government, people have a right to defend themselves.

Learn something everyday. Here I've been thinking that in right wing Utopia everyone carries a gun.

I’d think utopia would let you defend yourself. It’s such a fundamental human right that all tyrannies try to revoke it.

 

[bilby]

people have a right

Sure. People also have a right to nail their own testicles to their chair.

That doesn't mean it should be routine. Doesn't mean it's a good idea. Doesn't mean it should be recommended that people do more of it.

Americans, particularly on the political right, seem to have a truely infantile notion of rights, no notion whatsoever or responsibilities, and an astonishingly selfish outlook that, in the civilised world, cause adults to roll their eyes and say "he'll change his tune once he grows up".

I don't need to wander around equipped to apply lethal force in my self defence, for the same reason that I don't need to constantly assert my right not to have soldiers or militiamen billeted in my home - I live in a sane society in which such things are not sufficiently common as to waste my time worrying about them.

One big step towards such sanity is the recognition that a person equipped to defend himself with lethal force is simultaneously equipped to threaten others with lethal force, and the grownup thing to do is therefore to limit such equipment to those trained and disciplined to handle it in a civilised way.

That your country has thousands of police forces that are inadequately trained and disciplined is a problem that can be solved without the need to arm bears the public at large.

 

[bilby]

Take a quick glance outside the USA for a minute. There's just such a utopia immediately to your north.

Different demographics. And to say that Canadians after how their own government treated them during Covid must be a joke.

Yeah, they should have been refused treatment in an attempt by their President to maintain his grip on power.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I am at a loss.

It is no secret that the police response to the school shooter was inept (to put it mildly), but this new report from The Texas Tribune and Pro Publica shows that, somehow, it was even worse.

The NRA and pro-gun politicians have drilled into our head that if we just have more armed "good guys" at the ready, this whole "mass shooting" problem would be solved in short order. This hits close to home as I had friends who had to duck and cover in the 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting, and used to live in El Paso and know the area where the 2019 mass shooting happened very well.

Audio obtained by The Texas Tribune and ProPublica shows just how long police and dispatchers likely knew that children and teachers were in danger before taking action at Robb Elementary School.

This report (and it is not easy to read) puts the lie to the notion that if we just had more "good guys with guns" at schools, it would all be made better.

That’s one interpretation. The other is government ineptitude in protecting the public.

Well... in Texas.

Which is embarrassing.

Very embarrassing for advocates of 'small government'.

It seems that starving the beast simply renders it incapable of doing its job.

There were 376 police officers at the shooting. Hardly small government. And they all had guns. Texas braggadocio and NRA chest thumping did not save the day. And the NRA thinks a school teacher could do what 376 heavily armed police could not do?

 

[ZiprHead]

For Texas, whose government believes in the 'good guy with gun' narrative, yes it is embarrassing.

Ya know, there are plenty of examples of armed citizens stopping bad guys. That there were cowards in Uvalde doesn’t change that.

‘Good gal with a gun’: Woman with pistol kills gunman at party

Charleston Police are releasing new details on a Wednesday night shooting investigation.

www.wowktv.com

What if neither of them had guns?