The Problem of Evil (split from is atheism unappealing)

[Learner]

STAFF COMMENT: THis is a split from the “Atheism unappealing” thread. Parts of this were split further to the “Thought Experiment” Thread.

(This is in a reply to this comment in the other thread)

Just to mention a different view to the theoretical Judeo-Christian concept of God. You have a different one to mine CC (no surprise). "The problem of the existence of evil" so described, is resolved when you read 'further' so to speak. Meaning when there is 'no more' existence of evil, that part is then ... the new Kingdom and Heaven bit.

 

[bilby]

Just to mention a different view to the theoretical Judeo-Christian concept of God. You have a different one to mine CC (no surprise). "The problem of the existence of evil" so described, is resolved when you read 'further' so to speak. Meaning when there is 'no more' existence of evil, that part is then ... the new Kingdom and Heaven bit.

I am sure that that makes you feel better about believing something nonsensical, but as it is itself nonsensical, it doesn’t actually get you out of the logic trap.

Your god cannot be good, and omnipotent, and omnicognisant. You can only escape from the PoE by abandoning at least one of these putative traits (although doing so just runs your god smack bang into further demonstrable evidence for its incompatibility with our knowledge of reality).

To address your specific “solution”, we need only note that requiring suffering in a pre-“Kingdom and Heaven” subset of reality is needlessly cruel for an all knowing god with the ability to do something about it. It’s not sufficient that some, or even most, of existence be without suffering; To break the PoE, all of every single person’s existence must be pleasant. Evidence that this is not the case abounds, and requires only that you open your eyes.

 

[Learner]

Just to mention a different view to the theoretical Judeo-Christian concept of God. You have a different one to mine CC (no surprise). "The problem of the existence of evil" so described, is resolved when you read 'further' so to speak. Meaning when there is 'no more' existence of evil, that part is then ... the new Kingdom and Heaven bit.

I am sure that that makes you feel better about believing something nonsensical, but as it is itself nonsensical, it doesn’t actually get you out of the logic trap.

Feeling better about believing in something "nonsensical" as you put it, sort of suggests I have some underline hidden doubt in the concept of the theistic God, which is not the case. I suppose you could also term your idea above as "pretending", which does sound like a logic trap.

Your god cannot be good, and omnipotent, and omnicognisant. You can only escape from the PoE by abandoning at least one of these putative traits (although doing so just runs your god smack bang into further demonstrable evidence for its incompatibility with our knowledge of reality).

The concept of God is an incredible notion YES of course. It doesn't compute; being at odds with the everyday conventional life experience, but indeed as an atheist describes his or her take on what they think the concept is about, it certainly will be nonsensical, to be presented as some extreme sounding silliness.

The 'problem with evil' which resides among human beings, depends on every individual's willing participation adding to the whole, in scale. Stating the obvious: free will, do what thou wilt selfishly, etc., etc. Causing extreme harm to your neihbour (not loving them as Jesus demands), whilst at the same time strangely, we are appalled by the atrocities - we say to ourselves "we have better morals than God of the bible!" despite noting/ ignoring the instructions demanding "thall shalt not murder etc..", or the guidance like, love your neihbour as yourself, or love your enemies!

To address your specific “solution”, we need only note that requiring suffering in a pre-“Kingdom and Heaven” subset of reality is needlessly cruel for an all knowing god with the ability to do something about it. It’s not sufficient that some, or even most, of existence be without suffering; To break the PoE, all of every single person’s existence must be pleasant. Evidence that this is not the case abounds, and requires only that you open your eyes.

The Bible has an explanation as to why evil came into the world. As believers (who agree) we accept the harsh world and we understand it won't last, it's a step to the next phase. The concept of the Biblical God being so simple to understand - Basically it says of YOUR own choosing and accord: Dont take part, or be part of the PoE!!!

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The Bible has an explanation as to why evil came into the world. As believers (who agree) we accept the harsh world and we understand it won't last, it's a step to the next phase. The concept of the Biblical God being so simple to understand - Basically it says of YOUR own choosing and accord: Dont take part, or be part of the PoE!!!

That's a pile of shit. It's enough to bring any sane, intelligent, rational, observant, loving, compassionate human being to atheism.

 

[skepticalbip]

...

The Bible has an explanation as to why evil came into the world. As believers (who agree) we accept the harsh world and we understand it won't last, it's a step to the next phase. The concept of the Biblical God being so simple to understand - Basically it says of YOUR own choosing and accord: Dont take part, or be part of the PoE!!!

That's a pile of shit. It's enough to bring any sane, intelligent, rational, observant, loving, compassionate human being to atheism.

How can you say that? It is so obvious that there is evil in the world because Adam and Eve ate that fucking apple... the Bible says so. How else could evil be explained?

 

[Learner]

...

The Bible has an explanation as to why evil came into the world. As believers (who agree) we accept the harsh world and we understand it won't last, it's a step to the next phase. The concept of the Biblical God being so simple to understand - Basically it says of YOUR own choosing and accord: Dont take part, or be part of the PoE!!!

That's a pile of shit. It's enough to bring any sane, intelligent, rational, observant, loving, compassionate human being to atheism.

How can you say that? It is so obvious that there is evil in the world because Adam and Eve ate that fucking apple... the Bible says so. How else could evil be explained?

I don't think it was an apple... the atheist concept perhaps. The forbidden fruit imo was sex, you know...the fig leaf hiding their shame and so on. "Go forth and be fruitful and multiply" doesn't mean with anyone or anything that moves, willy nilly. Hence why so much emphasis on all types of sexual taboos.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

...

The Bible has an explanation as to why evil came into the world. As believers (who agree) we accept the harsh world and we understand it won't last, it's a step to the next phase. The concept of the Biblical God being so simple to understand - Basically it says of YOUR own choosing and accord: Dont take part, or be part of the PoE!!!

That's a pile of shit. It's enough to bring any sane, intelligent, rational, observant, loving, compassionate human being to atheism.

How can you say that? It is so obvious that there is evil in the world because Adam and Eve ate that fucking apple... the Bible says so. How else could evil be explained?

I don't think it was an apple... the atheist concept perhaps. The forbidden fruit imo was sex, go forth and be fruitful doesn't mean with anyone or anything that moves, willy nilly . Hence so much emphasis on sexual taboos, and the fig leaf, due to embarrassment.

That's dumber than square coconuts. Why the fuck did the giant spaceman give them sex organs?

See how idiotic theism is? It's certifiable insanity. if it wasn't so popular it would be.

But I digress.

The point was being made that when I experience awe and wonder I'm missing what is really happening, spooky spiritual connectivity. Sounds bizarre to someone who lives a satisfying and fulfilling life based on scientific naturalism. I'm sure everyone can appreciate such a position. Why did god put a block on me?

 

[skepticalbip]

...

The Bible has an explanation as to why evil came into the world. As believers (who agree) we accept the harsh world and we understand it won't last, it's a step to the next phase. The concept of the Biblical God being so simple to understand - Basically it says of YOUR own choosing and accord: Dont take part, or be part of the PoE!!!

That's a pile of shit. It's enough to bring any sane, intelligent, rational, observant, loving, compassionate human being to atheism.

How can you say that? It is so obvious that there is evil in the world because Adam and Eve ate that fucking apple... the Bible says so. How else could evil be explained?

I don't think it was an apple... the atheist concept perhaps. The forbidden fruit imo was sex, you know...the fig leaf hiding their shame and so on. "Go forth and be fruitful and multiply" doesn't mean with anyone or anything that moves, willy nilly. Hence why so much emphasis on all types of sexual taboos.

You are just making shit up. Where in the Bible does it say that evil is due to syngamy?

 

[Learner]

The Bible has an explanation as to why evil came into the world. As believers (who agree) we accept the harsh world and we understand it won't last, it's a step to the next phase. The concept of the Biblical God being so simple to understand - Basically it says of YOUR own choosing and accord: Dont take part, or be part of the PoE!!!

That's a pile of shit. It's enough to bring any sane, intelligent, rational, observant, loving, compassionate human being to atheism.

I see, so you have a different conceptual version and you want to tell me of it in your next post? Or your limited response is all you could come up with coz you feel sleepy?

 

[Learner]

...

The Bible has an explanation as to why evil came into the world. As believers (who agree) we accept the harsh world and we understand it won't last, it's a step to the next phase. The concept of the Biblical God being so simple to understand - Basically it says of YOUR own choosing and accord: Dont take part, or be part of the PoE!!!

That's a pile of shit. It's enough to bring any sane, intelligent, rational, observant, loving, compassionate human being to atheism.

How can you say that? It is so obvious that there is evil in the world because Adam and Eve ate that fucking apple... the Bible says so. How else could evil be explained?

I don't think it was an apple... the atheist concept perhaps. The forbidden fruit imo was sex, you know...the fig leaf hiding their shame and so on. "Go forth and be fruitful and multiply" doesn't mean with anyone or anything that moves, willy nilly. Hence why so much emphasis on all types of sexual taboos.

You are just making shit up. Where in the Bible does it say that evil is due to syngamy?

You first. Where does it say apple?

 

[Learner]

...

The Bible has an explanation as to why evil came into the world. As believers (who agree) we accept the harsh world and we understand it won't last, it's a step to the next phase. The concept of the Biblical God being so simple to understand - Basically it says of YOUR own choosing and accord: Dont take part, or be part of the PoE!!!

That's a pile of shit. It's enough to bring any sane, intelligent, rational, observant, loving, compassionate human being to atheism.

How can you say that? It is so obvious that there is evil in the world because Adam and Eve ate that fucking apple... the Bible says so. How else could evil be explained?

I don't think it was an apple... the atheist concept perhaps. The forbidden fruit imo was sex, go forth and be fruitful doesn't mean with anyone or anything that moves, willy nilly . Hence so much emphasis on sexual taboos, and the fig leaf, due to embarrassment.

That's dumber than square coconuts. Why the fuck did the giant spaceman give them sex organs?

See how idiotic theism is? It's certifiable insanity. if it wasn't so popular it would be.

Didn't see this post.

Quite simply this implies the action of disobeying Gods command, also meaning it was not the time to know of, or go hanky panky.

But I digress.

The point was being made that when I experience awe and wonder I'm missing what is really happening, spooky spiritual connectivity. Sounds bizarre to someone who lives a satisfying and fulfilling life based on scientific naturalism. I'm sure everyone can appreciate such a position. Why did god put a block on me?

Digressing would be best as per manner of your responses.

 

[bilby]

...

The Bible has an explanation as to why evil came into the world. As believers (who agree) we accept the harsh world and we understand it won't last, it's a step to the next phase. The concept of the Biblical God being so simple to understand - Basically it says of YOUR own choosing and accord: Dont take part, or be part of the PoE!!!

That's a pile of shit. It's enough to bring any sane, intelligent, rational, observant, loving, compassionate human being to atheism.

How can you say that? It is so obvious that there is evil in the world because Adam and Eve ate that fucking apple... the Bible says so. How else could evil be explained?

I don't think it was an apple... the atheist concept perhaps. The forbidden fruit imo was sex, go forth and be fruitful doesn't mean with anyone or anything that moves, willy nilly . Hence so much emphasis on sexual taboos, and the fig leaf, due to embarrassment.

That's dumber than square coconuts. Why the fuck did the giant spaceman give them sex organs?

See how idiotic theism is? It's certifiable insanity. if it wasn't so popular it would be.

But I digress.

The point was being made that when I experience awe and wonder I'm missing what is really happening, spooky spiritual connectivity. Sounds bizarre to someone who lives a satisfying and fulfilling life based on scientific naturalism. I'm sure everyone can appreciate such a position. Why did god put a block on me?

“Go to any psychiatric hospital, and tell them that you have conversations with God. They won’t even let you go home to fetch your pyjamas” - Billy Connolly

 

[bilby]

Feeling better about believing in something "nonsensical" as you put it, sort of suggests I have some underline hidden doubt in the concept of the theistic God, which is not the case.

No, it doesn’t suggest that.

It asserts that you are wrong, and suggests that you should have doubt; The fact that you don’t have the doubt that your position warrants is your mistake.

Failure to doubt the illogical and nonsensical is the primary failure of religion.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Just to mention a different view to the theoretical Judeo-Christian concept of God. You have a different one to mine CC (no surprise). "The problem of the existence of evil" so described, is resolved when you read 'further' so to speak. Meaning when there is 'no more' existence of evil, that part is then ... the new Kingdom and Heaven bit.

I am sure that that makes you feel better about believing something nonsensical, but as it is itself nonsensical, it doesn’t actually get you out of the logic trap.

Feeling better about believing in something "nonsensical" as you put it, sort of suggests I have some underline hidden doubt in the concept of the theistic God, which is not the case. I suppose you could also term your idea above as "pretending", which does sound like a logic trap.

Your god cannot be good, and omnipotent, and omnicognisant. You can only escape from the PoE by abandoning at least one of these putative traits (although doing so just runs your god smack bang into further demonstrable evidence for its incompatibility with our knowledge of reality).

The concept of God is an incredible notion YES of course. It doesn't compute; being at odds with the everyday conventional life experience, but indeed as an atheist describes his or her take on what they think the concept is about, it certainly will be nonsensical, to be presented as some extreme sounding silliness.

The 'problem with evil' which resides among human beings, depends on every individual's willing participation adding to the whole, in scale. Stating the obvious: free will, do what thou wilt selfishly, etc., etc. Causing extreme harm to your neihbour (not loving them as Jesus demands), whilst at the same time strangely, we are appalled by the atrocities - we say to ourselves "we have better morals than God of the bible!" despite noting/ ignoring the instructions demanding "thall shalt not murder etc..", or the guidance like, love your neihbour as yourself, or love your enemies!

To address your specific “solution”, we need only note that requiring suffering in a pre-“Kingdom and Heaven” subset of reality is needlessly cruel for an all knowing god with the ability to do something about it. It’s not sufficient that some, or even most, of existence be without suffering; To break the PoE, all of every single person’s existence must be pleasant. Evidence that this is not the case abounds, and requires only that you open your eyes.

The Bible has an explanation as to why evil came into the world. As believers (who agree) we accept the harsh world and we understand it won't last, it's a step to the next phase. The concept of the Biblical God being so simple to understand - Basically it says of YOUR own choosing and accord: Dont take part, or be part of the PoE!!!

What, God's silence to Cain after God's arbitrary favoritism with Abel?

 

[Learner]

Feeling better about believing in something "nonsensical" as you put it, sort of suggests I have some underline hidden doubt in the concept of the theistic God, which is not the case.

No, it doesn’t suggest that.

It asserts that you are wrong, and suggests that you should have doubt; The fact that you don’t have the doubt that your position warrants is your mistake.

Well when you put in as "feeling better", it seemed to me you were suggesting that my previous emotional state of mind, meant, the previous not-so-good feeling I had about the belief, is the kind of doubt that I would have, as if, knowing or feeling that there's something wrong, so therefore I'll just put it in back of my mind and pretend itr's not there.

But ok, yes I can agree, there should be doubts, doubts enquires for correction, where one just keeps at it, looks and studies it - also defining with a little clarity on what one is trying to portray to someone, since there are several context variables i.e. all manner of doubts of various degrees. What I mean for example is: I have no doubt God loves us and the concept as I understand it, says, He wants us to get back to Him... that's what it reads quite clearly to me, which obviously is the total opposite to the not-so-nice mis-characterization view of God, usually portrayed by atheists.

 

[Hermit]

God loves us

Every time I hear this sort of thing I think of that sort of thing:

Spoiler: The work of a cruel God

Some of the more than 250,00 victims that were killed in under six hours by a tsunami in 2005

 

[Learner]

Understandable, death was fore menioned way back in Genesis to happen. God is not on the scene anymore,it seems i.e. it's satans world now as its written,.. we didn't need God aparrently .

 

[Hermit]

God loves us

Every time I hear this sort of thing I think of that sort of thing:

Spoiler: The work of a cruel God

Some of the more than 250,00 victims that were killed in under six hours by a tsunami in 2005

God is not on the scene anymore,it seems i.e. it's satans world now as its written,.. we didn't need God aparrently .

God loves us by absenting himself and leaving us to Satan's tender mercies?

This is not how I imagine God's love for us to manifest itself.

 

[Learner]

God loves us

Every time I hear this sort of thing I think of that sort of thing:

Spoiler: The work of a cruel God

Some of the more than 250,00 victims that were killed in under six hours by a tsunami in 2005

God is not on the scene anymore,it seems i.e. it's satans world now as its written,.. we didn't need God aparrently .

God loves us by absenting himself and leaving us to Satan's tender mercies?

This is not how I imagine God's love for us to manifest itself.

When God was around interacting with humans, we read that people or nations still went and worshipped other gods and traditions, turning their backs on God. Judgement & punishment was dealt out, right there and then in Gods presence!

Your question does ponder the thought: If God was around now, then I would wonder if there'd be that many people left, as sinners (myself included) would have fallen short of the commandments? Being dealt the consequences, like it was in the OT, being judged DIRECTLY when God was present; keeping to His word of the covenants, in which He can't take back, or, dismiss the promises declared. This makes the arrival of Jesus, highlight a loving God, to send a savior, even when you do break the commandments, etc..

 

[Learner]

Ah... sorry for previous posts, wasn't quite on topic to the OP