The problem of water shortages in the US

[southernhybrid]

The NYTimes did a study regarding the future of water shortages in the US. I'm sharing a long article that goes into a lot of detail as to how this happened and what if anything can be done to slow it down. You really need to read the entire or most of the article to understand the problem.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...qKMAyi3HtEAPlinE9WOB0HchCGOVEA&smid=url-share

GLOBAL WARMING HAS FOCUSED concern on land and sky as soaring temperatures intensify hurricanes, droughts and wildfires. But another climate crisis is unfolding, underfoot and out of view.

Many of the aquifers that supply 90 percent of the nation’s water systems, and which have transformed vast stretches of America into some of the world’s most bountiful farmland, are being severely depleted. These declines are threatening irreversible harm to the American economy and society as a whole.

The New York Times conducted a months-long examination of groundwater depletion, interviewing more than 100 experts, traveling the country and creating a comprehensive database using millions of readings from monitoring sites. The investigation reveals how America’s life-giving resource is being exhausted in much of the country, and in many cases it won’t come back. Huge industrial farms and sprawling cities are draining aquifers that could take centuries or millenniums to replenish themselves if they recover at all.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Any effort to impose federal oversight would very likely face opposition from agricultural groups. The American Farm Bureau Federation, which represents farmers, said states were best suited to address groundwater problems. The federal government’s role should be to spend money on infrastructure projects and help farmers pay for new technology, according to Courtney Briggs, the federation’s senior director of government affairs.

Yeah, like the fisherman in the North Atlantic saying the Government should stay out of their Cod fishing business.

 

[bilby]

The problem is that people started using the resource before they ever considered, much less understood, what it actually is.

If you dig (or drill) into the ground, sooner or later you'll strike water.

Yay, free water! Let's turn this arid scrub or desert into farmland!

The water will never run out; Because it never has. Oh, wait, we need deeper wells today than my father or grandfather needed. But I am sure that's not a big deal.

Anyway, drilling deep wells is easy these days, because we have machines that run on mineral oil. Which we know will never run out, because it never has...

 

[steve_bank]

Water is ongoing in the news avoid here.

I don't have a link, a govt analysis has been done. There is a color map showng risk areas.

I think as far back as the early 90s it was understood the Midwest aquifers used for agriculture were drawing down, and they are not going to be replenished.

California deep wells are being contaminated by salt, going back to the 90s.

The Columbia river is prdicted to draw down, it waters East Washington agriculure. High plains dr land. Same with Oregon on.

Washington agriculture and drinking water supplies are already having problems with lower snow packs and early runoffs from snow melts occurring earlier in the year.

I have driven through Eastern Washington many times. Green horizon to horizon. Giant sprinklers on wheels watering the crops.

Conflict over water rights and allocation go back to the 19th century. Easy coast politicians vs western farmers and ranchers. Same Ca agriculture is already being curtailed.

The East coast fisheries are a good example. The govt deregulated fishing. Almost anybody could get a license and a boat. Result, depletion of fishing stocks to the point of extinction.

Fisherman wail and cry govt intervention when seasons are closed or limits placed on catches.

 

[laughing dog]

An underlying issue is that while water is a valuable resource, it is not priced as such. There are many historical and technological reasons for that tradition throughout the world, but at some point, any resource ends up being rationed by some means. Market pricing is one way of allocating (i.e. rationing) resources, but it is not the only way. However, moving to any form of new allocation system entails winners and losers.

 

[steve_bank]

There have been attempts to privatize water supllies. IMO a very bad idea.

I think the problem is as a whole we do not connect water with survival, food too.

Bothrhave been generally plentiful. Most people in the USA do not know what it is like to be without it. The COVID disruption of the food supply chain was a wake up call, but that is all fading into the past. It is back to normal cosumption.

The idea of using water to create resorts and golf courses in the desert is insane. Las Vegas.

 

[southernhybrid]

I don't think most people have a clue as to how much in danger our water supply is becoming. Most people don't read the news or pay attention to the things that are happening all around them. We in the US are so used to simply turning on the faucet and having water, with the exceptions of parts of the country that are now beginning to see serious water shortages on the horizon. The linked article goes into extensive detail about how the shortage of water impacts many things that most of us never realized.

For example:

Around Phoenix, one of America’s fastest growing cities, the crisis is severe enough that the state has said there’s not enough groundwater in parts of the county to build new houses that rely on aquifers.

In other areas, including parts of Utah, California and Texas, so much water is being pumped up that it is causing roads to buckle, foundations to crack and fissures to open in the earth. And around the country, rivers that relied on groundwater have become streams or trickles or memories.

“There is no way to get that back,” Don Cline, the associate director for water resources at the United States Geological Survey, said of disappearing groundwater. “There’s almost no way to convey how important it is.”

But despite the importance, the view of the predicament has often been fragmented. Until now.

This analysis is based on tens of thousands of groundwater monitoring wells that dot the nation. The Times collected data for these wells, which are widely scattered and often poorly tracked, from dozens of federal, state and local jurisdictions.

That database reveals the scope of the crisis in many ways. Every year since 1940, for example, more wells have had falling water levels than rising levels.

Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They're not going to get serious about it because too many sacred cows get gored that way.

 

[Swammerdami]

They're not going to get serious about it because too many sacred cows get gored that way.

A good example of why I call this post-rational era the "Age of Stupidity."

In the olden days the problem, particularly the threat to children and grandchildren, could be explained to the smartest 20% or so. Most of the other 80% would at least be smart enough to follow their leaders.

But these days humans do NOT make such important decisions. Society is controlled by big corporations (and their blowhard stooges), who drown out the voices of science with money (even hiring Albanian troll farms!) and are motivated by next quarter's profit, not sustainability.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So I heard this piece on NPR yesterday. As some know or have read in this thread, Arizona is kind of running short on water, and expansion is being held back to ensure water access for at least a century down the road. IE, you can't build new homes if you can guarantee access to water. But the trouble is...

SOMMER: At a new development, construction workers are putting siding on single-story homes. It'll be more than 300 units.

GREG HANCOCK: This is a great product to rent.

SOMMER: Greg Hancock is president of Hancock Builders. He's been building homes in Arizona for more than four decades. Even with the water situation, Hancock didn't have to worry about a water supply for this project.

HANCOCK: We don't need to assure water supply because it's one lot. Although it is 331 units, it's one lot.

SOMMER: These homes will be rented, not sold, to homeowners. And Arizona's water rules only apply to subdivisions where the land is broken up to build homes for sale. As a result, these build-to-rent projects have been booming in Arizona.

HANCOCK: We have finished 3,000. We have 3,000 more under construction and 5,000 more in predevelopment.

SOMMER: And concerns are growing that that unaccounted growth could strain the water supply even more.

So... as long as it is a rental, you don't need to worry about water access. Capitalism is beautiful, isn't it. They are trying to close the loophole, but you know... money and bought out politicians.

 

[steve_bank]

The problem is free market capitalism is based on growth based in population growth.

China and Jap have problems because not enough are born to support growing retired populati

Chins has gone from population control and limiting kids per family to promoting large families, even encouraging single women to have kids.

It is holding a tiger by the tail. If we curtail population and economic growth economic chaos ensues.

South/Central American states can not sustain populations, hence we have millions showing up at our border.

Europe has the same problem. It is just the beginning.

Water s an issue, but Las Vegas is building a new stadium for the MLB Oakland Athletics. Golf courses and resorts in the desert.

Nothing happens without water.

Net references vary from 2 to 4 liters per day for drinking water. Add cooking, cleaning, and toilets.

https://rwd3rogers.com/documents/331/Household_Water_Usage_Estimates.pdf

Household Water Usage
Utility Service Center
What is Average?
The water industry estimates that an average person uses 3,000 gallons of water monthly,
so a family of 4 would use 12,000 gallons for bathing, cooking, washing, recreation and
watering. But a lot of factors come into play when calculating average use. So in reality,
one person's usage may be a lot higher or lower than another person's. Here are some
things to think about, if you suspect your water bill is too high.

https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/Departments-and-Agencies/DPH/dph/drinking_water/pdf/27icwaterfactspdf.pdf

1 | P a g e Water Facts
Water Facts
Information Provided by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
Drinking Water Facts and Figures
• Water is the only substance found on earth in three forms – solid, liquid, and gas.
• A person can live more that a month without food, but only about a week, depending on conditions,
without water.
• 66% of the human body is water; 75% of the human brain is water.
• 75% of a chicken, 89% of a pineapple and 95% of a tomato is water.
• A person must consume 2.5 quarts of water per day from all sources (drinking, eating) to maintain
health.
• Water regulates the earth’s temperature. It also regulates the temperature of the human body, carries
nutrients and oxygen to cells, cushions joints, protects organs and tissues, and removes wastes.
• It is possible for people today to drink water that was part of the dinosaur era.
Usage
• Industries as well as people need water. It takes on average 39,090 gallons of water to manufacture a
new car and its four tires.
• 62,600 gallons of water are needed to produce one ton of steel; 1,500 gallons to process one barrel of
beer; and 9.3 gallons to process one can of fruit or vegetables.
• On average, 50-70% of household water is used outdoors (watering lawns, washing cars).
• The average American uses over 100 gallons of water per day; the average residence uses over 100,000
gallons during a year.
• Americans drink more than 1 billion glasses of tap water per da

 

[DBT]

Rather than a water issue, a perpetual growth, overpopulation and overconsumption problem (now bracing for the flak).

 

[Swammerdami]

Rather than a water issue, a perpetual growth, overpopulation and overconsumption problem (now bracing for the flak).

Asking for flak? I will altruistically save the flaksters some typing:

There are no renewables: half the population would still deplete aquifers, just take twice as long.
Who cares anyway? If wrong-headed greenies would just get psychotherapy, nuclear power would become too cheap to meter and desalinated water could be flown into Arizona from the Indian Ocean.
And human population will level off before it gets to 15 billion -- that's only 15 times the sustainable level even if we believe doom-sayers, and still less than a millionth of the number of ants. And there are even more mites than ants. Not to mention over a million trillion trillion bacteria. 20 billion is nothing! Why do you want to kill billions of babies, DBT?

It takes a lot of clover to find one with four leaves. Would Mozart's music even exist without tax incentives for large families? If we allow the anti-population fanatics to pursue their genocide, the next Justin Bieber may never be born.

 

[steve_bank]

Nuclear electric power began with reactors built for submarines.

The eclectic utilities thought all they had to do was scale up the sub reactors. There was a promotional industry commercial that said nuclear electricity would be so cheap it would not be metered, you would pay a monthly flat fee.

Did not quite work out.

A conventional natural gas or coal plant are straightforward. No special materials or techniques are required. Heat water, create steam, turn a turbine.

Nuclear plants do the same thing, but radiation exposure is an issue. Welds and metals used for cooling and heat transfer are more difficult and expensive. Reactor controls are more complicated . Maintnce is more expensive along with training. Nuclea plants have life tes, they ca not just be upgraded or mdfied.

Chernobyl and Three Mile Island put the kibosh on public support of nuclear power.

There are new designs that are intriscally safe, they will always fail safe and by design can not go critical. The problem is public opinion is coditioned against nuclear power.

Nulear power while probably the best long term solutio does not solve the resource problems.

I ahree that the pronlem is too many people consumng too much resources.

 

[bilby]

There was a promotional industry commercial that said nuclear electricity would be so cheap it would not be metered, you would pay a monthly flat fee.

No, there never was.

This is a propaganda lie, that's been pushed by the anti-nuclear industry so long and so hard that it has become ingrained in our popular culture; You have never seen any such commercial (because it never existed), but you genuinely believe that it did exist - you might even imagine that you have seen it.

The origin of this phrase is a speech given on September 16, 1954 by Lewis L. Strauss, a former Navy officer who was appointed Chairman of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission in 1953 by PresidentDwight D. Eisenhower.

Ever since Strauss gave that speech, many anti-nuclear activists have assumed and claimed that he literally said electricity from nuclear plants would be too cheap to meter.

...

The focus of his speech to the National Association of Science Writers in New York City on September 16th, 1954 dealt with how modern scientific research, in general, would lead to better lives for future generations. And, his meter remark was about electric energy, in general, not nuclear power in particular.

https://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2009/09/too-cheap-to-meter-nuclear-quote-debate.html?m=1

Of course, he was speaking at a time when the process of metering was itself very expensive. You had to build and supply the metering equipment; Then you had to pay a small army of people to walk from house to house, reading the meters on a regular basis; Then you had to employ another small army of clerks to convert the meter readings into cash amounts owed (after accounting for various discounts, special rates, corrections from errors made in previous billing cycles, etc., etc.,); Then you had to print, fold, and insert the bills into correctly addressed envelopes; then pay postage to send those bills out to the customers; And finally you needed a second small army of clerks to collect the payments (mostly personal cheques), confirm that they were for the correct sum, credit them to the correct account, and bank them.

Most of this stuff is now done by computers and/or machines, but in 1954, it was a huge overhead for utility companies. And some utilities, such as water companies, had already decided that their product was so cheap that metering wasn't worthwhile - they simply charged a flat connection fee to access their supply network, and didn't bother to try to charge a rate based on the volume being taken by each customer.

Oddly, metering has now become so cheap that even water is no longer "too cheap to meter"; Strauss was exactly wrong in his prediction, because despite commodities becoming cheaper in real terms, metering has become cheaper at an even faster rate.

But as Niels Bohr pointed out: "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future!"

 

[bilby]

Nuclea plants have life tes, they ca not just be upgraded or mdfied.

If you wanted to say "Nuclear plants have lifetimes, they cannot just be upgraded or modified", then you're wrong on all counts.

Nuclear plants typically have design lifetimes similar to that of gas or coal plants; But unlike those plants, at the end of these design lifetimes, nuclear plants are typically found to be good to go for at least twice as long as originally planned. Sometimes they need minor upgrades or modifications; Sometimes they just need recertification.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So... as long as it is a rental, you don't need to worry about water access. Capitalism is beautiful, isn't it. They are trying to close the loophole, but you know... money and bought out politicians.

The problem is the politicians leave holes in their laws to benefit the big guys.