The Religion of "The State"

[Loren Pechtel]

Dude, you realize you're about the most consistent defender of oppressive statism here right?

Anyway, whatever you're doing to get past it does not seem to be working.

You have over 20,000 posts to choose from yet you make accusations without even one reference.

You are full of it.

He's right. So long as it's called "socialism" or "communism" you're for the oppression of the masses.

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

And how dare the U.S. bomb Germany! Or Japan for that matter (Japan attacked Hawaii, not a US State at the time).

Didn't Japan attack a US military base which happened to be in Hawaii? If you send your military to attack somebody else's military, you're kind of declaring war on that person, regardless of where the military happens to be.

It's also kind of the problem. The US has military bases everywhere. Pretty soon you won't be able to take a dump in your toilet without declaring war on the US.

aa

 

[whichphilosophy]

You have over 20,000 posts to choose from yet you make accusations without even one reference.

You are full of it.

He's right. So long as it's called "socialism" or "communism" you're for the oppression of the masses.

Most societies have mixed economies born from mixed politics. For instance we can denationalize industries into private companies while providing free education and healthcare.

 

[untermensche]

You have over 20,000 posts to choose from yet you make accusations without even one reference.

You are full of it.

He's right. So long as it's called "socialism" or "communism" you're for the oppression of the masses.

This is a thread about the religion of "The State", not me.

People lost in the religion of "The State" excuse all kinds of abuses, like decades of oppression and brutality.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

But in terms of taxation, morality dictates that those harmed the least, who will still have a lot even after taxation, should carry the greatest burden.

Of course, if you implement a flat tax with zero deductions, you will guarantee that those who have the most will pay the most.

Libertarianism, the atheism of politics.

 

[Metaphor]

Libertarianism, the atheism of politics.

Atheism is the lack of a belief in a god or gods.

Libertarianism is not about lack of a belief. Libertarians have very specific beliefs about what political system is morally correct.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He's right. So long as it's called "socialism" or "communism" you're for the oppression of the masses.

This is a thread about the religion of "The State", not me.

People lost in the religion of "The State" excuse all kinds of abuses, like decades of oppression and brutality.

That is nothing like a rebuttal.

- - - Updated - - -

But in terms of taxation, morality dictates that those harmed the least, who will still have a lot even after taxation, should carry the greatest burden.

Of course, if you implement a flat tax with zero deductions, you will guarantee that those who have the most will pay the most.

Libertarianism, the atheism of politics.

The current system does a better job of that than a flat tax does. Note how it's the GOP after a flat tax--doesn't that suggest to you that it benefits the rich???

 

[whichphilosophy]

The PRC believes in freedom of religion. So it has set up various state approved religious organisations to assist its religious masses in how best to serve the state. In Tibet it has its own Dalai Lama, and the Three-Self Patriotic movement (Protestant) which is a member of the China Christian Council and the World Council of Churches. China also set up the Patriotic Catholic Association. The Vatican does not recognize any bishops ordained by the PCA and the PCA does not recognize the Pope. So this is really different to the object of the Thread which personifies the State as a sort or religion.

 

[untermensche]

This is a thread about the religion of "The State", not me.

People lost in the religion of "The State" excuse all kinds of abuses, like decades of oppression and brutality.

That is nothing like a rebuttal.

You can't rebut baseless opinion.

 

[untermensche]

The PRC believes in freedom of religion. So it has set up various state approved religious organisations to assist its religious masses in how best to serve the state. In Tibet it has its own Dalai Lama, and the Three-Self Patriotic movement (Protestant) which is a member of the China Christian Council and the World Council of Churches. China also set up the Patriotic Catholic Association. The Vatican does not recognize any bishops ordained by the PCA and the PCA does not recognize the Pope. So this is really different to the object of the Thread which personifies the State as a sort or religion.

There is no difference between the religion of "The State" in China and the US.

In both the worshipers allow "The State" to commit all kinds of crimes without batting an eye.

In China those crimes extend more to the internal population and in the US the crimes are mainly carried out overseas.

 

[untermensche]

But in terms of taxation, morality dictates that those harmed the least, who will still have a lot even after taxation, should carry the greatest burden.

Of course, if you implement a flat tax with zero deductions, you will guarantee that those who have the most will pay the most.

Libertarianism, the atheism of politics.

That's not the "least" harm.

That is the least harm to those with the most.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The PRC believes in freedom of religion. So it has set up various state approved religious organisations to assist its religious masses in how best to serve the state. In Tibet it has its own Dalai Lama, and the Three-Self Patriotic movement (Protestant) which is a member of the China Christian Council and the World Council of Churches. China also set up the Patriotic Catholic Association. The Vatican does not recognize any bishops ordained by the PCA and the PCA does not recognize the Pope. So this is really different to the object of the Thread which personifies the State as a sort or religion.

There is no difference between the religion of "The State" in China and the US.

In both the worshipers allow "The State" to commit all kinds of crimes without batting an eye.

In China those crimes extend more to the internal population and in the US the crimes are mainly carried out overseas.

If someone happens to wish to voice dissent, then living in China can be a problem. A lot of good has been achieved though this does not excuse violations of free speech and freedom of expression. China is too large to bully and we depend on it for trade. Thus whatever does happen is low key.

 

[untermensche]

There is no difference between the religion of "The State" in China and the US.

In both the worshipers allow "The State" to commit all kinds of crimes without batting an eye.

In China those crimes extend more to the internal population and in the US the crimes are mainly carried out overseas.

If someone happens to wish to voice dissent, then living in China can be a problem. A lot of good has been achieved though this does not excuse violations of free speech and freedom of expression. China is too large to bully and we depend on it for trade. Thus whatever does happen is low key.

The US has the greatest freedom of speech in the world. Unless you live in Yemen and speak against US terrorism in the ME.

It is also committing the most crimes overseas and causing great misery.

Those lost in the religion of "The State" excuse all of it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The PRC believes in freedom of religion. So it has set up various state approved religious organisations to assist its religious masses in how best to serve the state. In Tibet it has its own Dalai Lama, and the Three-Self Patriotic movement (Protestant) which is a member of the China Christian Council and the World Council of Churches. China also set up the Patriotic Catholic Association. The Vatican does not recognize any bishops ordained by the PCA and the PCA does not recognize the Pope. So this is really different to the object of the Thread which personifies the State as a sort or religion.

There is no difference between the religion of "The State" in China and the US.

In both the worshipers allow "The State" to commit all kinds of crimes without batting an eye.

In China those crimes extend more to the internal population and in the US the crimes are mainly carried out overseas.

No difference???

In China political topics are generally no-go for conversation even in private. Anything other than the party line is met by an immediate change of topic.

China makes it hard to get news that's not China-approved. I was in China not too long after 9/11 when that plane went down in New York. I was told about it and yet it took me half an hour to find any news about it at all. (Admittedly, this was on dialup.)

In China if you find yourself in opposition to someone politically connected you basically have no options.

China is claiming 6.9% growth last year--despite a bunch of lower level numbers saying it's likely the economy actually contracted. While our numbers aren't gold-plated there's nothing like that going on here.

China's debt-to-GDP ratio is 3x ours--because they've been going wild borrowing to sustain their unsustainable growth rate.

 

[whichphilosophy]

There is no difference between the religion of "The State" in China and the US.

In both the worshipers allow "The State" to commit all kinds of crimes without batting an eye.

In China those crimes extend more to the internal population and in the US the crimes are mainly carried out overseas.

No difference???

In China political topics are generally no-go for conversation even in private. Anything other than the party line is met by an immediate change of topic.

China makes it hard to get news that's not China-approved. I was in China not too long after 9/11 when that plane went down in New York. I was told about it and yet it took me half an hour to find any news about it at all. (Admittedly, this was on dialup.)

In China if you find yourself in opposition to someone politically connected you basically have no options.

China is claiming 6.9% growth last year--despite a bunch of lower level numbers saying it's likely the economy actually contracted. While our numbers aren't gold-plated there's nothing like that going on here.

China's debt-to-GDP ratio is 3x ours--because they've been going wild borrowing to sustain their unsustainable growth rate.

Like Western societies China has been borrowing considerably which has been on a steep rise for the past few months. As we know there are always conflicting reports for any government figures but translated on the ground there are certainly a lot of people who have increased their incomes and standards of living. 1,200 NEW cars were going on the roads of BEIJING each day. Restricting all drivers to 4 out of 5 working days had little effect. Some bought a second car or the wife would give the husband a lift in her car.

A lot of things are illegal in China but there is the phrase, 'Making something illegal does not necessarily make it unpopular." In confidence some Chinese will express discontent, especially those older ones who remember the great leap forward.

It's good to see the CCTV 9 when the People's Congress vote on various legislation. During 10 years, not a single No vote was cast. All voting was either 100% in favour except for anyone who was absent. (This is Chinese democracy in progress).


Of course a great deal of poverty still exists in China but some measures such as scrapping tax on some poor farmers (per CCTV9 propaganda TV) was done simply because the cost of collection exceeded the amount collected.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No difference???

In China political topics are generally no-go for conversation even in private. Anything other than the party line is met by an immediate change of topic.

China makes it hard to get news that's not China-approved. I was in China not too long after 9/11 when that plane went down in New York. I was told about it and yet it took me half an hour to find any news about it at all. (Admittedly, this was on dialup.)

In China if you find yourself in opposition to someone politically connected you basically have no options.

China is claiming 6.9% growth last year--despite a bunch of lower level numbers saying it's likely the economy actually contracted. While our numbers aren't gold-plated there's nothing like that going on here.

China's debt-to-GDP ratio is 3x ours--because they've been going wild borrowing to sustain their unsustainable growth rate.

Like Western societies China has been borrowing considerably which has been on a steep rise for the past few months. As we know there are always conflicting reports for any government figures but translated on the ground there are certainly a lot of people who have increased their incomes and standards of living. 1,200 NEW cars were going on the roads of BEIJING each day. Restricting all drivers to 4 out of 5 working days had little effect. Some bought a second car or the wife would give the husband a lift in her car.

A lot of things are illegal in China but there is the phrase, 'Making something illegal does not necessarily make it unpopular." In confidence some Chinese will express discontent, especially those older ones who remember the great leap forward.

It's good to see the CCTV 9 when the People's Congress vote on various legislation. During 10 years, not a single No vote was cast. All voting was either 100% in favour except for anyone who was absent. (This is Chinese democracy in progress).


Of course a great deal of poverty still exists in China but some measures such as scrapping tax on some poor farmers (per CCTV9 propaganda TV) was done simply because the cost of collection exceeded the amount collected.

Over a period of many years there's obviously been major growth--I've been going there for almost two decades now, I've seen tremendous change.

What I'm saying here is that the real growth hasn't been able to keep up with what they want so they've been faking the numbers. Note, also, that in the last few years I've seen a substantial rise in prices of consumer goods. They're in for big trouble.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Of course, if you implement a flat tax with zero deductions, you will guarantee that those who have the most will pay the most.

Libertarianism, the atheism of politics.

That's not the "least" harm.

That is the least harm to those with the most.

A flat tax is exactly those who have the most pay the most. I don't see why you object.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Like Western societies China has been borrowing considerably which has been on a steep rise for the past few months. As we know there are always conflicting reports for any government figures but translated on the ground there are certainly a lot of people who have increased their incomes and standards of living. 1,200 NEW cars were going on the roads of BEIJING each day. Restricting all drivers to 4 out of 5 working days had little effect. Some bought a second car or the wife would give the husband a lift in her car.

A lot of things are illegal in China but there is the phrase, 'Making something illegal does not necessarily make it unpopular." In confidence some Chinese will express discontent, especially those older ones who remember the great leap forward.

It's good to see the CCTV 9 when the People's Congress vote on various legislation. During 10 years, not a single No vote was cast. All voting was either 100% in favour except for anyone who was absent. (This is Chinese democracy in progress).




Of course a great deal of poverty still exists in China but some measures such as scrapping tax on some poor farmers (per CCTV9 propaganda TV) was done simply because the cost of collection exceeded the amount collected.

Over a period of many years there's obviously been major growth--I've been going there for almost two decades now, I've seen tremendous change.

What I'm saying here is that the real growth hasn't been able to keep up with what they want so they've been faking the numbers. Note, also, that in the last few years I've seen a substantial rise in prices of consumer goods. They're in for big trouble.

I think it's hard to find any government that's not cooking the books. The Chinese do this for propaganda and our governments do it to try and win elections. Perhaps China will have a surprise for us. However there are some very rich corporations. CNPCC (Petrochina) is reputed to have had almost a trillion dollars in account. Wiki stated 800 million but one International Lawyer mentioned to me this had topped the trillion mark.

 

[Axulus]

That's not the "least" harm.

That is the least harm to those with the most.

A flat tax is exactly those who have the most pay the most. I don't see why you object.

It's pretty obvious. He doesn't care about how much they pay but about how much harm they suffer.

 

[bilby]

That's not the "least" harm.

That is the least harm to those with the most.

A flat tax is exactly those who have the most pay the most. I don't see why you object.

'Exactly'?

I think you mean 'One of an infinity of ways to achieve'.

A tax that increases as the fourth power of income also implies that 'those who have the most pay the most'.

Your position is woefully over simplified. Untermensche probably deserves no better, as he is a master of oversimplification. But you do your credibility no favours with others by descending to his level.

Oh, hang on; this is the Political Discussions forum. Forget I spoke.