The Remarkable Progress of Renewable Energy

[steve_bank]

Safety codes are written in blood.

My father was an electrician. He said in his field wedding rings were called widow makers.

Yea, the first rule when working on live systems is remove all jewelry from hands and necks.

Way back in e early 70s I wasa technician in re Navy wronging at a weapons depot that stored and tested air to arr missiles.

The test system was old tubes with high voltage stipples.

I was doing a test system calibration and had a swing out section oen. I rested one arm on the chassis and one on a missile on a test stand. I got knocked to to ground by a hot chassis.

To prevent static buildup buildup the floors had metal embedded in the concrete and our shoes a had metal rivets on the bottom.

AAfter that I always junpered sections on the system when workng on them

 

[steve_bank]

In the 80sn when in Portland I git home one night and smelled something burning. I popped off the cover of the wall mounted thermostat. One of screw terminals was glowing red and plastic around it was smoldering and flaking, but no flame.

UL required fire resistant plastic. The UL symbol was visible on the plastic surface.

Wiring was aluminum.

AI
Yes, aluminum wiring was widely used in homes. It was a common, cost-effective substitute for copper in branch circuits between 1965 and the mid-1970s due to skyrocketing copper prices.However, solid aluminum wiring is now known to pose fire hazards. Because aluminum expands more than copper when heated and oxidizes over time, connections at outlets and switches can loosen. This creates resistance, causing the wiring to overheat.

 

[aupmanyav]

Hydrogen train trial in India. India joins Germany, Japan, China and US, in exploring this possibility.
"India's first hydrogen-powered train, a 10-car hydrogen fuel cell trainset, is set to operate on the Jind-Sonipat section, with a maximum speed of 75 km/h."

 

[bilby]

a maximum speed of 75 km/h

That's pretty bloody slow for a train.

 

[aupmanyav]

That's pretty bloody slow for a train.

We are not yet there. It is experimental.
Uh, BBC. No one pays attention to it in India.

 

[steve_bank]

It seens le hydrogen just moves the [olution somewhere else.

It tales energy to prodce hysdrogen.

Hew many liters of water per watt of hydrogen energy?

How does t scale up for a hydrogen economy?

AI Overview
Pollution from large-scale hydrogen production depends entirely on the method used . Today, 95% of hydrogen is fossil-based . "Grey" hydrogen emits roughly \(12\) to \(13\text{ kg}\) of \(CO_{2}e\) per \(kg\) of hydrogen, while "Green" hydrogen creates close to zero direct emissions, though it is limited by infrastructure impacts .

India has a hrrrible air pollution prblem.

 

[ZiprHead]

Hydrogen train trial in India. India joins Germany, Japan, China and US, in exploring this possibility.
"India's first hydrogen-powered train, a 10-car hydrogen fuel cell trainset, is set to operate on the Jind-Sonipat section, with a maximum speed of 75 km/h."

No where to hang onto the side as is usual in India.

 

[thebeave]

Hydrogen train trial in India. India joins Germany, Japan, China and US, in exploring this possibility.
"India's first hydrogen-powered train, a 10-car hydrogen fuel cell trainset, is set to operate on the Jind-Sonipat section, with a maximum speed of 75 km/h."

No where to hang onto the side as is usual in India.

Or hang your turban.

 

[aupmanyav]

No where to hang onto the side as is usual in India.

It is not permitted in India now. Most are electric trains now and go faster.
Traveling on the foot-board, roof, step, engine, or any unauthorized part of the train after warning is prohibited under Section 156, and is punishable by up to 3 months imprisonment, or ₹500 (USD 5) fine or both.
For Smoking on trains is prohibited under Section 167 and is punishable by a fine of ₹100 (USD 1). I was warned that it would cost me ₹ 200 (USD 2).
But that was quite some time ago. I have not traveled by train since then.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hydrogen train trial in India. India joins Germany, Japan, China and US, in exploring this possibility.
"India's first hydrogen-powered train, a 10-car hydrogen fuel cell trainset, is set to operate on the Jind-Sonipat section, with a maximum speed of 75 km/h."

So long as you have any carbon in you power grid hydrogen is not green. And you lose a lot of energy putting it on a train. (Or any other vehicle. You either pump it to high pressure, or you liquefy it, both processes take a lot of energy and putting something on a vehicle to recover that energy means a lot of extra weight.)

 

[aupmanyav]

So long as you have any carbon in you power grid hydrogen is not green. And you lose a lot of energy putting it on a train. (Or any other vehicle. You either pump it to high pressure, or you liquefy it, both processes take a lot of energy and putting something on a vehicle to recover that energy means a lot of extra weight.)

I suppose the people involved have done their home work.

1. Electrolysis
Process: Hydrogen is produced by splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen using electricity.
Source of Electricity: Ideally, this electricity comes from renewable energy sources, making the process environmentally friendly.
Emissions: This method generates zero emissions, as the only by-product is oxygen.

2. Steam Reforming
Process: Hydrogen is extracted from natural gas through a chemical reaction with steam.
Emissions: While this method is more common, it does produce some carbon emissions, although they are significantly lower than those from traditional fossil fuels.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So long as you have any carbon in you power grid hydrogen is not green. And you lose a lot of energy putting it on a train. (Or any other vehicle. You either pump it to high pressure, or you liquefy it, both processes take a lot of energy and putting something on a vehicle to recover that energy means a lot of extra weight.)

I suppose the people involved have done their home work.

1. Electrolysis
Process: Hydrogen is produced by splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen using electricity.
Source of Electricity: Ideally, this electricity comes from renewable energy sources, making the process environmentally friendly.
Emissions: This method generates zero emissions, as the only by-product is oxygen.

2. Steam Reforming
Process: Hydrogen is extracted from natural gas through a chemical reaction with steam.
Emissions: While this method is more common, it does produce some carbon emissions, although they are significantly lower than those from traditional fossil fuels.

Irrelevant.

1) Your assumption they have done their homework assumes the objective. What you are missing is that the objective is not to be green, it is to appear green.

2) What you are missing is that even if the source is green you need to compare the hydrogen path with simply feeding it to the grid directly.

 

[aupmanyav]

1) Your assumption they have done their homework assumes the objective. What you are missing is that the objective is not to be green, it is to appear green.

2) What you are missing is that even if the source is green you need to compare the hydrogen path with simply feeding it to the grid directly.

The question is what is greener? Generating electricity from green sources and using it as such for transportation or making it produce Hydrogen to be used for transportation. Modi does not do things just for show, and spend millions of USD equivalent for nothing. The benefits and short-comings of the project must have been considered before the project was commissioned.

And even if a few million dollars are wasted in an experiment which does not prove successful, we can afford it. Our financials have been stable through tariffs and Hormuz.

FYI, government does not allow induction of petrol/lpg driven phut-phuts in Delhi, they are all electric now. From 2028, Delhi will not register any petrol/lpg vehicle, people will have to buy only the electric versions. Government at the moment, gives a subsidy of USD 1,000 for purchase of electric vehicles.

 

[aupmanyav]

Government at the moment, gives a subsidy of USD 1,000 for purchase of electric vehicles.

Indian cars are not that costly and a USD 1,000 subsidy is substantial along with the saving in running cost. It is a win-win situation for the buyer.
This car costs only USD 3,500. Veyve Mobility Eva, nothing fancy. Tata Tiago is USD 6,500. MG Comet EV costs USD 7,000. Others are more costly.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) Your assumption they have done their homework assumes the objective. What you are missing is that the objective is not to be green, it is to appear green.

2) What you are missing is that even if the source is green you need to compare the hydrogen path with simply feeding it to the grid directly.

The question is what is greener? Generating electricity from green sources and using it as such for transportation or making it produce Hydrogen to be used for transportation. Modi does not do things just for show, and spend millions of USD equivalent for nothing. The benefits and short-comings of the project must have been considered before the project was commissioned.

As I said, it's for show. That is something, even though it is not truly of value.

There is no scenario where hydrogen makes sense unless you have green power that you can not otherwise use. It is the least efficient use of the power, generating ammonia on site would be more efficient as it can be transported much better.

 

[aupmanyav]

There is no scenario where hydrogen makes sense unless you have green power that you can not otherwise use. It is the least efficient use of the power, generating ammonia on site would be more efficient as it can be transported much better.

I got different information about it, which I mentioned in my previous post.
"2. Steam Reforming
Process: Hydrogen is extracted from natural gas through a chemical reaction with steam.
Emissions: While this method is more common, it does produce some carbon emissions, although they are significantly lower than those from traditional fossil fuels."

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There is no scenario where hydrogen makes sense unless you have green power that you can not otherwise use. It is the least efficient use of the power, generating ammonia on site would be more efficient as it can be transported much better.

I got different information about it, which I mentioned in my previous post.
"2. Steam Reforming
Process: Hydrogen is extracted from natural gas through a chemical reaction with steam.
Emissions: While this method is more common, it does produce some carbon emissions, although they are significantly lower than those from traditional fossil fuels."

Let's put some numbers on this.

Methane (CH4 + 2O2 -> 2H2O + CO2) combustion: 890.7 kJ/mol.

Steam reforming: (CH4 + 2H2O -> CO2 + 4H2) -165 kJ/mol, but note that we have 4 moles of hydrogen, for a total cost of 660 kJ.

Hydrogen combustion: 285.83 kJ/mol. As we have 4 moles this is 1,143.32 kJ.

Thus we went from one molecule of CO2 yielding 890.7 kJ/mol to yielding 483.32 kJ/mol.

(Reality is considerably worse as the steam reforming is nowhere near 100% efficient.)

 

[aupmanyav]

(Reality is considerably worse as the steam reforming is nowhere near 100% efficient.)

If it is so simple, why various developed countries like Germany, Japan, China and US are trying for it?

 

[bilby]

(Reality is considerably worse as the steam reforming is nowhere near 100% efficient.)

If it is so simple, why various developed countries like Germany, Japan, China and US are trying for it?

Because, like all countries, those countries are run by idiots.

It is vanishingly rare for a head of state, or even a member of parliament, to have a background in science or engineering. Our world is being run by people who believe utterly nonsensical tripe, because they don't have the technical training to be able to grasp the fundamentals of the problems they face, nor of the solutions they are offered.

World leaders are mostly lawyers, warlords, business executives, or professional politicians.

There is nothing "representative" about our representatives. Almost none have ever worked as a labourer or tradesman. Almost none are introverts. Almost none are philosophers, or artists, or comedians, or bus drivers, or - well, anything ordinary.

They haven't lost touch with reality, because they were never in touch with it to begin with. They play politics and legal games; They use violence and cunning to build alliances and to play strategic games with real people as their pawns.

Overthrowing them is not only difficult; It is futile, because the new leaders will be cut from the same cloth as the old. Nobody wants a warlord as head of state. A bunch of extroverted narcissists are probably slightly less awful. So revolution is out. And you can't beat them at the ballot box, because the only people who have any chance at all at the ballots are populists, lawyers, and political gameplayers - and these are narcissists to a man.

Things could probably be improved by randomly selecting people and forcing them to serve in government, like we do with jury duty. But you can't get to there from here; Those in power control any changes to how people obtain power, and (surprise!) they don't want any changes that might reduce their own power.

Climate change can't be fixed, not because we lack the technology, but because the people with the ability to choose the technologies we will use don't understand the technology, and so are easy prey for every huckster looking to grab some easy money.

Hydrogen powered trains? Lyle Lanley would be green with envy that he didn't include that as an option.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

(Reality is considerably worse as the steam reforming is nowhere near 100% efficient.)

If it is so simple, why various developed countries like Germany, Japan, China and US are trying for it?

I already told you--appearances.