The respecting of irrespectable beliefs

[sharon45]

It is especially bad on fundamentalist Christian message boards on the internet, like the ones that are especially theologically conservative (like oriented to the Rapture) and also the ones that are more politically and socially focused. They just demonize, both literally and metaphorically, us atheists and repeatedly state how self-worshiping and stupid and depraved we are. They do not realize that we are right around them already and they have positive close social interactions with us already, and so would know that those vile claims are just not true. As long as we can be separated out and treated as a remote outsider group off in the distance though, it is easier to sustain those false claims about us.

Brian

These folks have never socialized with atheists or muslims or liberals or whomever they're demonizing. They're racists that need to decondition. Likely they won't, however as they probably lack the a larger intellectual perspective. There's no way you can move around among a diversity of people and continue to hold such prejudices.

Sure, I think believing in invisible sky people is dopey, childish and provincial, but I know and interact with lots of people who do.

Merely believing in it is one thing, quite another to claim to actually love such a hateful fiend and its nasty habits.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I'd argue that my atheist beliefs (or rather non-belief in God) is emotionally based as well. What sets me apart from her isn't necessarily intelligence nor is it astute sense of observation. I just have a brain that constantly questions and tries to work shit out. I can't turn that off. If a belief I have comes up against something that doesn't feel right, my brain will keep bringing it up until I get resolution. I don't like that feeling. But it's not my rational faculties making me an atheist. It's still just my emotions. I think most people are about as able as me to work out the problems with Christian theology. Because the faulty logic in Christian theology is so fundamental. I think religious people like the contradictions. To them it creates a mystery. I think they're attracted to that. To me that mystery is like drinking soap. Makes me run away.... for emotional reasons.

It is a partnership of emotion and intellect, with the emotion needed to care and the intellect to know why you continue to care. As a child I was told that killing people was wrong; intellect. Then I hear about God killing people in the Bible; emotional, but also swinging back to what I originally heard about killing people being wrong; intellect.

I don't think you understand what I was trying to say. Which is the opposite of what you said.

 

[sharon45]

It is a partnership of emotion and intellect, with the emotion needed to care and the intellect to know why you continue to care. As a child I was told that killing people was wrong; intellect. Then I hear about God killing people in the Bible; emotional, but also swinging back to what I originally heard about killing people being wrong; intellect.

I don't think you understand what I was trying to say. Which is the opposite of what you said.

Yes, since it was supposed to be in disagreement with what you said.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I don't think you understand what I was trying to say. Which is the opposite of what you said.

Yes, since it was supposed to be in disagreement with what you said.

So what is "you" in your description? You seem to assume Cartesian dualism. Do you? I lost faith in my homunculus a long time ago.

 

[sharon45]

Yes, since it was supposed to be in disagreement with what you said.

So what is "you" in your description?

It is a common term speaking for general people.

You seem to assume Cartesian dualism. Do you?

Where in what I wrote do you see that?

 

[DrZoidberg]

So what is "you" in your description?

It is a common term speaking for general people.

You seem to assume Cartesian dualism. Do you?

Where in what I wrote do you see that?

How could you possibly know when it's your intellect or emotions making you do or believe stuff? If you think that you can, from inside your own head, tell the difference, that's belief in Cartesian dualism.

 

[sharon45]

It is a common term speaking for general people.

You seem to assume Cartesian dualism. Do you?

Where in what I wrote do you see that?

How could you possibly know when it's your intellect or emotions making you do or believe stuff? If you think that you can, from inside your own head, tell the difference, that's belief in Cartesian dualism.

I didn't say that I could absolutely tell the difference, especially when it is a murky fluttering of both emotions and intellect attempting dominance over one another. As an extreme example, I'm saying that I can tell when I'm in a panic, I am being controlled a lot more by my emotions, and when I can take time out to calmly contemplate a certain situation, that is when my intellect is much greater in charge.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It is a common term speaking for general people.

You seem to assume Cartesian dualism. Do you?

Where in what I wrote do you see that?

How could you possibly know when it's your intellect or emotions making you do or believe stuff? If you think that you can, from inside your own head, tell the difference, that's belief in Cartesian dualism.

I didn't say that I could absolutely tell the difference, especially when it is a murky fluttering of both emotions and intellect attempting dominance over one another. As an extreme example, I'm saying that I can tell when I'm in a panic, I am being controlled a lot more by my emotions, and when I can take time out to calmly contemplate a certain situation, that is when my intellect is much greater in charge.

Ok. But I think you did. If you didn't, you're not making any sense.

 

[sharon45]

It is a common term speaking for general people.

You seem to assume Cartesian dualism. Do you?

Where in what I wrote do you see that?

How could you possibly know when it's your intellect or emotions making you do or believe stuff? If you think that you can, from inside your own head, tell the difference, that's belief in Cartesian dualism.

I didn't say that I could absolutely tell the difference, especially when it is a murky fluttering of both emotions and intellect attempting dominance over one another. As an extreme example, I'm saying that I can tell when I'm in a panic, I am being controlled a lot more by my emotions, and when I can take time out to calmly contemplate a certain situation, that is when my intellect is much greater in charge.

Ok. But I think you did. If you didn't, you're not making any sense.

Good, because when many people start thinking that I make a lot of sense, I must be doing something very wrong.

 

[Malintent]

When the person means well for me and is someone I have a great relationship with, but they still espouse these silly and morally reprehensible views, I have a lot of trouble knowing how to respond *without* also demeaning their views.

If you love them then you should want to be honest with them. It the least, tell them that their argument is kind of funny.. like how people who deny the moon landings are kind of funny.... Tell them you don't even know where to begin.. like trying to explain how we know the earth isn't flat, without making them sound dumb. Tell them that you respect their feelings and them as a person.. so, if they are interested in what is so horribly wrong with that statement (or whatever) just ask, and please bare with me, as I have no wish to hurt your feelings... and just see what they ask you..

you know that airplanes don't actually flap their wings, right? Like, how do you explain that to someone who really believes that airplanes can't really exist, they are actually giant metal monsters that eat 1 out of every 100 passengers.. .and that is the secret all the airlines are keeping from you? Ask them how they would explain that to you without hurting your feelings.