The results of over a decade of nation building

[Narapoia]

Just caught this article about recent events in Iraq.

So Sunni insurgents have decided that they don't really like being out of the show, so to speak, when it comes to running things and have started capturing cities (like Mosul) in an advance towards Baghdad. The US trained and supplied army that was created to stop this sort of thing has simply dissolved - 900,000 or so soldiers have taken off their uniforms and gone home, though some apparently did take the time to fire a few shots beforehand.

An Iraq in chaos is in no-ones best interest but seriously what is the US supposed to do? Trillions of dollars and years and years of occupation don't seem to have worked - maybe invest in a time machine and prevent the clusterfuck before it happened? Given the spurious justification of the invasion and utter incompetence of the occupation there was never going to be a different result. Seriously the people who got the US involved in this situation should all be facing serious charges with the very likely prospect of lengthy prison terms at the end.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Seriously the people who got the US involved in this situation should all be facing serious charges with the very likely prospect of lengthy prison terms at the end.

Hear him.

 

[Underseer]

Nation building?

I hope you used that phrase ironically.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It's not all bad. Most of those trillions went to large multinationals and the rich people running them got even richer.

 

[barbos]

Mission accomplished!

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Mission accomplished!

Yes. I'm pretty sure that was the main part of the mission.

 

[Ford]

Democracy is messy?

 

[Narapoia]

Nation building?

I hope you used that phrase ironically.

Is there any other way to use it in regards to recent US quagmires? Unbelievably there are some people that want to go nation building in Iran as well.

 

[barbos]

Nation building?

I hope you used that phrase ironically.

Is there any other way to use it in regards to recent US quagmires? Unbelievable there are some people that want to go nation building in Iran as well.

Some people want to do nation building in Ukraine too. In fact they event spent $5bil on that already

 

[Narapoia]

Democracy is messy?

This is not democracy, this is armed insurrection - literally people wholesale taking over parts of the country by force. Also, literally, what the army is there to prevent and their complete desertion of duty points to more than issues with democracy.

I know you have a lot of guns over there but elections must be really exciting in your part of 'Merica if this is just a case of messy democracy.

 

[bleubird]

http://gawker.com/5989592/george-w-bushs-art-teacher-says-hes-painted-50-dogs

 

[TV and credit cards]

http://gawker.com/5989592/george-w-bushs-art-teacher-says-hes-painted-50-dogs

He should be made to go to VA hospitals to paint pictures of all the 3/4 of a person he's created or a nice picnic scene of a dad watching his kid play baseball with the other kids and dads, from his wheelchair.
I hope you're all wrong. I hope there is a hell.

 

[Hickdive]

This is just a foretaste of the repeat performance that will happen in Afghanistan.

There are times when I think the best possible foreign policy is to ignore the likes of Saddam and the Taliban provided they keep their shit within their own borders. If it begins to leak, shove it back in, but otherwise let the stupid bastards kill each other. Tough on the civil populace caught in these places but no tougher than killing them in droves as collateral damage in misguided attempts at nation-building.

 

[Narapoia]

This is just a foretaste of the repeat performance that will happen in Afghanistan.

There are times when I think the best possible foreign policy is to ignore the likes of Saddam and the Taliban provided they keep their shit within their own borders. If it begins to leak, shove it back in, but otherwise let the stupid bastards kill each other. Tough on the civil populace caught in these places but no tougher than killing them in droves as collateral damage in misguided attempts at nation-building.

Well it is the preferred approach for countries that don't have valuable resources or occupy space across which valuable resources can be transported. Half of Africa is ruled by presidents for life and various forms of horror have been going on there for the last half a century which the world comfortably ignored (unless white people were involved). South East Asia has also had its fair share of terror and various global powers have promoted wholesale repression and state sponsored violence in South America over the same period of time.

It's a really tough situation but I have to agree. The 19th and 20th centuries are littered with failed invasion, occupations and attempts at nation building. You can't even be sure that supporting and arming 'freedom fighters' is a good idea because you never know what they will be like when it is their turn to rule (Africa).

 

[dx713]

Well, if you eventually decided you have to intervene, you can also listen to all those USSR experts you paid so highly a decade ago instead of dismissing them as "cold war relics".
Strangely, human behaviour didn't change after the wall was brought down, and a study of what did and didn't work while rebuilding the country could have shown that dimissing all former military and administration because they had to be Baas party members, or even all Sunni because Sadam was Sunni, was not a good idea...