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The rigor mortis is setting in the Republican Party

Considering that the Republicans rose to replace the Whigs, do you think the Republican Party is a No Homers Party?

We're not discussing the political situation of a century ago, we're talking about the one of today. It is one which has far more modern parallels just in the last few years. They will either split and become a number of smaller parties which are less of a threat or they will be the same party with the same people and the same ideas and simply a different name and no news story about them will neglect to mention that fact.

Now, are you saying that they'll be able to fool everybody into thinking that they're a different group and people won't notice or are you saying that they'll actually have different ideas, despite being made up of the exact same people?

Will the Tea Party and assorted crazies be excluded from the Party or will they play an integral part in the Party's primary system and need to be catered to? Will there be a limit on how often a candidate can bring up Reagan in each sentence do people don't start to get the idea that these guys might be Republicans disguising themselves in a pair of glasses?

How many people thought there was a great difference between the Whigs and the Republicans? Seriously, how many people thought that?

When the Whig party fell apart, most Whigs simply joined the Republicans. That makes the Republican Party a No Homers Party.
 
All the same, I would love to see the end of the two-party system in America. Having multiple parties would be good for the country in the long run, but I don't think it's ever going to happen.
Then one must get rid of first past the post and single-member districts, and have proportional representation. At least partially, because one can have compromise systems like the mixed-member system.

One can go part of the way without amending the US Constitution, like have every multimember House delegation be elected by proportional representation. One only needs to change appropriate election laws and maybe amend some state constitutions. Furthermore, this can be done state-by-state if one wishes.
 
Considering that the Republicans rose to replace the Whigs, do you think the Republican Party is a No Homers Party?

We're not discussing the political situation of a century ago, we're talking about the one of today. It is one which has far more modern parallels just in the last few years. They will either split and become a number of smaller parties which are less of a threat or they will be the same party with the same people and the same ideas and simply a different name and no news story about them will neglect to mention that fact.
But they couldn't just change their name and still be the same party; nobody would fall for that, and they wouldn't get their own party to really go along with it anyway.

The name change would probably come from a change of leadership, with the new leadership having a very different ideology (hence the reason I mentioned "Constitutionalist" as a possibility). Existing conservatives would probably cast their lot with this new power bloc just because it would serve as a convenient vehicle for their interests, but it would no longer be defined by the "conservatives" as in the current party. Probably a strain of libertarianish politicians would take the reigns in that case, committed more to legislating individualist philosophies and removing collectivist protections from the Constitution (14th amendment et al) than to anything we might currently recognize as conservativism.

All the same, I would love to see the end of the two-party system in America. Having multiple parties would be good for the country in the long run, but I don't think it's ever going to happen.

But what's missing here is the mechanism by which the leadership implements the change in ideology.

The Tea Party types are a passionate and organized group which makes a point of going out to vote and participates in the primary process. This is why they're catered to. If you have a "Constitutionalist" party holding primaries instead, the same groups who are currently going out to vote for Republicans is going to be going out to vote for the Constitutionalists, so you're not going to get a different group of representatives voted in. These groups also kind of hate the leadership of the GOP and consider them sellouts, so they're not just going to meekly lie back and surrender the power which they currently have and let the sellouts run the show and only ever get tossed a bone or two every now and again. They believe enough in their position to sabotage the process as opposed to compromising in an attempt for victory, when they've seen that kind of compromise fail.
 
We're not discussing the political situation of a century ago, we're talking about the one of today. It is one which has far more modern parallels just in the last few years. They will either split and become a number of smaller parties which are less of a threat or they will be the same party with the same people and the same ideas and simply a different name and no news story about them will neglect to mention that fact.

Now, are you saying that they'll be able to fool everybody into thinking that they're a different group and people won't notice or are you saying that they'll actually have different ideas, despite being made up of the exact same people?

Will the Tea Party and assorted crazies be excluded from the Party or will they play an integral part in the Party's primary system and need to be catered to? Will there be a limit on how often a candidate can bring up Reagan in each sentence do people don't start to get the idea that these guys might be Republicans disguising themselves in a pair of glasses?

How many people thought there was a great difference between the Whigs and the Republicans? Seriously, how many people thought that?

When the Whig party fell apart, most Whigs simply joined the Republicans. That makes the Republican Party a No Homers Party.

The political situation of 160 years ago is not relevant to the political situation of today. The GOP would be doing this in today's political environment, not the political environment of the 1850s, so what happened with the Whigs falls into the "not all that relevant to the topic" category. It's how the GOP would pull this off given what they would need to deal with right now which matters, not how their predecessors managed to pull it off back in the days of yore.
 
How many people thought there was a great difference between the Whigs and the Republicans? Seriously, how many people thought that?

When the Whig party fell apart, most Whigs simply joined the Republicans. That makes the Republican Party a No Homers Party.

The political situation of 160 years ago is not relevant to the political situation of today. The GOP would be doing this in today's political environment, not the political environment of the 1850s, so what happened with the Whigs falls into the "not all that relevant to the topic" category. It's how the GOP would pull this off given what they would need to deal with right now which matters, not how their predecessors managed to pull it off back in the days of yore.

Well, if you want to get all huffy and bring the "situation of today" into it we should probably stop ignoring the fact the situation of today is that outside of elections in which Obama runs the Republicans are winning lots of elections at all levels across the country and are arguably at one of their higher ebbs ever in terms of what they control nationally.
 
The political situation of 160 years ago is not relevant to the political situation of today. The GOP would be doing this in today's political environment, not the political environment of the 1850s, so what happened with the Whigs falls into the "not all that relevant to the topic" category. It's how the GOP would pull this off given what they would need to deal with right now which matters, not how their predecessors managed to pull it off back in the days of yore.

Well, if you want to get all huffy and bring the "situation of today" into it we should probably stop ignoring the fact the situation of today is that outside of elections in which Obama runs the Republicans are winning lots of elections at all levels across the country and are arguably at one of their higher ebbs ever in terms of what they control nationally.

Well ya, when a Democrat needs two or three times the votes to get a single seat that a Republican does, one would expect Republicans to win a lot more elections than their levels of support would indicate.
 
Well, if you want to get all huffy and bring the "situation of today" into it we should probably stop ignoring the fact the situation of today is that outside of elections in which Obama runs the Republicans are winning lots of elections at all levels across the country and are arguably at one of their higher ebbs ever in terms of what they control nationally.

Well ya, when a Democrat needs two or three times the votes to get a single seat that a Republican does, one would expect Republicans to win a lot more elections than their levels of support would indicate.

Grasp your head firmly with both hands while reading the link.

Hopefully this will keep your head from exploding.

https://www.multistate.com/state-resources/governors-legislatures
 
The political situation of 160 years ago is not relevant to the political situation of today. The GOP would be doing this in today's political environment, not the political environment of the 1850s, so what happened with the Whigs falls into the "not all that relevant to the topic" category. It's how the GOP would pull this off given what they would need to deal with right now which matters, not how their predecessors managed to pull it off back in the days of yore.

Admittedly the issue of whether or not slaves should be allowed in the western territories is not a relevant issue today. But that doesn't mean the comparison is not relevant. According to everyone who disagreed with my comparing a theoretical replacement to the Republican Party as a "No Homers Party", then the Republican Party itself is indeed a "No Homers Party." The rest of the comparison stands strong.

The GOP wouldn't pull it off because the GOP would die and be replaced by another party. The individual politicians who are currently Republicans would be the ones pulling this off.

Unless you are telling me that you see absolutely nothing in common between the Whig Party and the Republican Party. Nothing. Nada. Not even people in common.
 
Considering that the Republicans rose to replace the Whigs, do you think the Republican Party is a No Homers Party?

We're not discussing the political situation of a century ago, we're talking about the one of today. It is one which has far more modern parallels just in the last few years. They will either split and become a number of smaller parties which are less of a threat or they will be the same party with the same people and the same ideas and simply a different name and no news story about them will neglect to mention that fact.
But they couldn't just change their name and still be the same party; nobody would fall for that, and they wouldn't get their own party to really go along with it anyway.

The name change would probably come from a change of leadership, with the new leadership having a very different ideology (hence the reason I mentioned "Constitutionalist" as a possibility). Existing conservatives would probably cast their lot with this new power bloc just because it would serve as a convenient vehicle for their interests, but it would no longer be defined by the "conservatives" as in the current party. Probably a strain of libertarianish politicians would take the reigns in that case, committed more to legislating individualist philosophies and removing collectivist protections from the Constitution (14th amendment et al) than to anything we might currently recognize as conservativism.

All the same, I would love to see the end of the two-party system in America. Having multiple parties would be good for the country in the long run, but I don't think it's ever going to happen.

But what's missing here is the mechanism by which the leadership implements the change in ideology.
The leadership doesn't "implement" a change in ideology; they simply replace the existing leaders AND their ideology altogether. The case you're describing is basically what happened to the Republican Party during the Goldwater Era; there was a massive sea change with the end of desegregation and a shifting of ideologies. They assimilated the Dixiecrats, synergized their "states rights" ideology (and a fair amount of their segregationist reasoning along with it) and formed the modern Republican Party as we know it today. It's kind of well understood now that the Republican Party of the 1950s bears very little resemblance to its modern incarnation, so much so that they're almost two completely different things.

THAT kind of change wouldn't result in a new party, just the morphing of the existing party into a new form with a new paradigm of behavior, new talking points, new agendas. It's not a new party, but the evolution of an old one.

The arrival of a new party begins with a new set of leaders with a distinct ideology and a distinct agenda. For whatever reason, this new party draws followers to itself (probably because they demonstrate a capacity to win elections more reliably than the existing party) and members of the old party change sides, hoping to cash in on their success. They may or may not subscribe to all (or any) of the ideological goals of the party's leaders, but if they can credibly fake it (or at least uphold some of those ideals to the satisfaction of the party's supporters) then they survive the transition.

The Tea Party types are a passionate and organized group which makes a point of going out to vote and participates in the primary process. This is why they're catered to. If you have a "Constitutionalist" party holding primaries instead, the same groups who are currently going out to vote for Republicans is going to be going out to vote for the Constitutionalists, so you're not going to get a different group of representatives voted in.
Yes you are: the Constitutionalist party has a different set of leaders, which in a democracy like ours pretty much means a totally different set of candidates running (and winning) elections. A few Republicans and Democrats would jump ship and switch parties for whatever reason, but when a new party forms it isn't organized around the same people or the same intellectual background.

This is the reason why the Teabaggers never really split from the Republican party: Tea Party candidates ran in Republican primaries in an attempt to usurp the positions of candidates they didn't like. That didn't make them a separate political party, jut a sub-group WITHIN the Republican party forming a power bloc. Had the Tea Party stuck with its own primaries and ran in parallel with the Republican and Democratic candidates, they probably would have lost, which is why they didn't do it that way.

These groups also kind of hate the leadership of the GOP and consider them sellouts
But they continue to go along with them despite their gripes to this effect. These groups aren't so much forming a new political party so much as attempting to take control of the old one by replacing its leaders a few at a time and/or pressuring its leaders into adopting their agenda. This, too, isn't the same thing as forming a totally new party.

To be clear: the Tea Party WAS, at first, a new political party, but choosing to remain under the GOP umbrella made this no longer the case. They were assimilated into the body of the Republican Party just like the Dixicrats were, although their influence isn't nearly as transformative.
 
I do not see that "rigor mortis" is "setting in" on the GOP. After all, they control the Senate, the House and most state legislatures.
They are doing well with their present day approach to politics, not withstanding the jokes more reasonable people make about these bastards. And it does not look like this is going to change to any great degree any time soon. Rather the GOP is continually mutating. And not for the better. Their moronic antics energize their base, while supposedly smarter voters stay home.
 
I do not see that "rigor mortis" is "setting in" on the GOP. After all, they control the Senate, the House

LOL, there may be a majority who claim the label "Republican", but no one controls the Senate or the House.
Kind of like the term 'Christain.' Many claim the title. And they'll present themselves as a single entity to claim dominance, but they're also quick to point fingers and complain 'Don't lump me in with THOSE idiots....'
 
The Republican Party has been able to keep itself going in its current form by gerrymandering itself into office. That makes it vulnerable to electoral-law changes and court decisions that would make gerrymandering much more difficult.

But if anti-gerrymandering efforts have wide success, then the Republican Party would be forced to broaden its appeal to survive, broaden beyond being the party of Jefferson Davis.
 
In 2012, the G.O.P. voters were 89% white. In 2044, we will be a non-Caucasian majority country. By 2060, the country is expected to be 56% nonwhite. Adios, Ann Coulter.
 
The Republican Party has been able to keep itself going in its current form by gerrymandering itself into office. That makes it vulnerable to electoral-law changes and court decisions that would make gerrymandering much more difficult.

But if anti-gerrymandering efforts have wide success, then the Republican Party would be forced to broaden its appeal to survive, broaden beyond being the party of Jefferson Davis.

The problem is that the Supreme Court gave the GOP permission to do so--actually, for both parties. But the Republicans have abused it to the point where they control the House and Senate even tough they received over a million less overall votes than the Democrats.

It's early on a Saturday morning and I don't feel like dredging up con-law cases about gerrymandering. But suffice it to say that we're flat-out stuck with what the GOP has done with the drawing and re-drawing of districts and it's not going to change until Scalia, Alito, or Thomas dies or retires and is replaced with a more sensible Justice. And those stubborn motherfuckers won't go anywhere until they're dead.
 
The Republican Party has been able to keep itself going in its current form by gerrymandering itself into office. That makes it vulnerable to electoral-law changes and court decisions that would make gerrymandering much more difficult.

But if anti-gerrymandering efforts have wide success, then the Republican Party would be forced to broaden its appeal to survive, broaden beyond being the party of Jefferson Davis.

So the party of Abraham Lincoln is the party of Jefferson Davis?

In 2012, the G.O.P. voters were 89% white. In 2044, we will be a non-Caucasian majority country. By 2060, the country is expected to be 56% nonwhite.

So minorities don't like profit?

I find it rather ironic that you make broad sweeping statements about minorities while implying the Republicans are racists. From my point of view their primary, and also secondary, interest is profit. Grab what you can, and take it in cash.
 
So the party of Abraham Lincoln is the party of Jefferson Davis?

In 2012, the G.O.P. voters were 89% white. In 2044, we will be a non-Caucasian majority country. By 2060, the country is expected to be 56% nonwhite.

So minorities don't like profit?

I find it rather ironic that you make broad sweeping statements about minorities while implying the Republicans are racists. From my point of view their primary, and also secondary, interest is profit. Grab what you can, and take it in cash.

The trick is convincing minorities that the Republican Party means increased profits FOR THEM. That's going to be a pretty hard sell for the population that remembers the Republicans trying hard as hell to keep them from gaining citizenship, that tried to suppress the minimum wage, tried to encourage charter schools and for-profit colleges, tried to impose tax cuts on corporations and tax hikes on the poor, welfare cuts, medicaid cuts, medicare cuts, and even opposition to Obamacare. Indeed, NONE of the core Republican positions is in any way profitable to people who aren't already extremely wealthy.

It's actually kind of amazing so many white people still vote for them.
 
'Staunch'? The word 'rabid' comes to mind. Read Gerald Ford's assessment of the G.O.P. in Write It When I'm Gone --he was speaking in the 90's and noting that the party was so radicalized that he could have no part in it, if he was still an office seeker. Reagan took positions against assault weapons and for tax increases (not to mention preserving a safety net, to the extent he meant it) that I don't hear any of today's loud, angry conservative candidates espousing. (Granted, Reagan's tax increases were all payroll taxes & not marginal rate hikes.)
 
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