The Rise of the Regressive Left

[Jolly_Penguin]

When did this happen? Has it always been there and simply risen to prominence?

I think I can remember when being liberal meant being for free speech, including speech you strongly disagree with. I remember religious and quasi-religious crusades against everything from porn to Donald Duck not wearing pants to the Teletubbies (the pink one was said to be gay!) and demands to pull books off of shelves and to censor anything and everything. It was the liberals who stood against this. But today? "Safe Spaces"? "Trigger warnings"? "Micro-Aggressions"? Speakers cancelled because what they say offends somebody? When did the left become about shutting people up with self-righteous rage, instead of hearing people out and defeating them in the marketplace of ideas?

Wisdom is knowing and understanding the valuable insights of those you disagree with.

I recently followed David Rubin's exodus from the Young Turks. I had agreed, and still agree, with a lot of what they have to say, but my goodness have they jumped the shark. Cenk and Anna have turned into the equivalent of Fox News only from the other side. Rubin actually hears people out, even those he completely disagrees with, and I find it refreshing. Why is that no longer the norm?

I think that as liberals, we care more about the outsiders of the world, and have more empathy towards the outgroup. So we fight for the rights of minorities, be they black, gay, etc, and for immigrants and others around the world who are in need or who are oppressed. Equality and fair treatment matter a lot to us. But lazy thinking can carry that over into wanting to reflexively defend any individual minority member regardless of what they have done, or defending a group or ideology on the outs, and protecting it from criticism, even when those criticisms are against ultra-conservatism in that ideology (ie, Whenever we criticize Islam).

How do we bring liberals back to actual liberal values?

Being a classical liberal am I going to have to stop calling myself a Liberal because what "Liberal" means is changing, or can we get this regressive side of liberalism under control?

 

[Elixir]

When did this happen? Has it always been there and simply risen to prominence?

I think I can remember when being liberal meant being for free speech, including speech you strongly disagree with. I remember religious and quasi-religious crusades against everything from porn to Donald Duck not wearing pants to the Teletubbies (the pink one was said to be gay!) and demands to pull books off of shelves and to censor anything and everything. It was the liberals who stood against this. But today? "Safe Spaces"? "Trigger warnings"? "Micro-
Aggressions"? Speakers cancelled because what they say offends somebody? When did the left become about shutting people up with self-righteous rage, instead of hearing people out and defeating them in the marketplace of ideas?

I recently followed David Rubin's exodus from the Young Turks. I had agreed, and still agree, with a lot of what they have to say, but my goodness have they jumped the shark. Cenk and Anna have turned into the equivalent of Fox News only from the other side. Rubin actually hears people out, even those he completely disagrees with, and I find it refreshing. Why is that no longer the norm?

I expect self-righteous behaviour from the right, especially the religious right, but this uptick on the left is alarming. How do we bring liberals back to actual liberal values?

Wisdom is knowing and understanding the valuable insights of those you disagree with.

Media entities do one thing: they pander - that's their job. They don't care about being correct or being on the high road, they care about ratings. And one other thing: ratings.
Why would MSNBC, widely held up as a tool of the left, spend most of its time on Trump Trump Trump Trump, ad nauseum? Because it sells. They don't care if they're giving Trump everything he needs to stay competitive without spending a dime - they'll still break in with a live-stream every time they think he's about to take another shit. Their internal analysis says more people watch.

 

[Deepak]

For background http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/205205/liberals-mugged-by-progressives

 

[untermensche]

When did this happen? Has it always been there and simply risen to prominence?

I think I can remember when being liberal meant being for free speech, including speech you strongly disagree with. I remember religious and quasi-religious crusades against everything from porn to Donald Duck not wearing pants to the Teletubbies (the pink one was said to be gay!) and demands to pull books off of shelves and to censor anything and everything. It was the liberals who stood against this. But today? "Safe Spaces"? "Trigger warnings"? "Micro-Aggressions"? Speakers cancelled because what they say offends somebody? When did the left become about shutting people up with self-righteous rage, instead of hearing people out and defeating them in the marketplace of ideas?

Wisdom is knowing and understanding the valuable insights of those you disagree with.

I recently followed David Rubin's exodus from the Young Turks. I had agreed, and still agree, with a lot of what they have to say, but my goodness have they jumped the shark. Cenk and Anna have turned into the equivalent of Fox News only from the other side. Rubin actually hears people out, even those he completely disagrees with, and I find it refreshing. Why is that no longer the norm?

I think that as liberals, we care more about the outsiders of the world, and have more empathy towards the outgroup. So we fight for the rights of minorities, be they black, gay, etc, and for immigrants and others around the world who are in need or who are oppressed. Equality and fair treatment matter a lot to us. But lazy thinking can carry that over into wanting to reflexively defend any individual minority member regardless of what they have done, or defending a group or ideology on the outs, and protecting it from criticism, even when those criticisms are against ultra-conservatism in that ideology (ie, Whenever we criticize Islam).

How do we bring liberals back to actual liberal values?

Being a classical liberal am I going to have to stop calling myself a Liberal because what "Liberal" means is changing, or can we get this regressive side of liberalism under control?

There is not one specific point in this rant to respond to.

Which liberal thinker of today do you have a problem with?

Noam Chomsky?

 

[Elixir]

When did this happen? Has it always been there and simply risen to prominence?

I think I can remember when being liberal meant being for free speech, including speech you strongly disagree with. I remember religious and quasi-religious crusades against everything from porn to Donald Duck not wearing pants to the Teletubbies (the pink one was said to be gay!) and demands to pull books off of shelves and to censor anything and everything. It was the liberals who stood against this. But today? "Safe Spaces"? "Trigger warnings"? "Micro-Aggressions"? Speakers cancelled because what they say offends somebody? When did the left become about shutting people up with self-righteous rage, instead of hearing people out and defeating them in the marketplace of ideas?

Wisdom is knowing and understanding the valuable insights of those you disagree with.

I recently followed David Rubin's exodus from the Young Turks. I had agreed, and still agree, with a lot of what they have to say, but my goodness have they jumped the shark. Cenk and Anna have turned into the equivalent of Fox News only from the other side. Rubin actually hears people out, even those he completely disagrees with, and I find it refreshing. Why is that no longer the norm?

I think that as liberals, we care more about the outsiders of the world, and have more empathy towards the outgroup. So we fight for the rights of minorities, be they black, gay, etc, and for immigrants and others around the world who are in need or who are oppressed. Equality and fair treatment matter a lot to us. But lazy thinking can carry that over into wanting to reflexively defend any individual minority member regardless of what they have done, or defending a group or ideology on the outs, and protecting it from criticism, even when those criticisms are against ultra-conservatism in that ideology (ie, Whenever we criticize Islam).

How do we bring liberals back to actual liberal values?

Being a classical liberal am I going to have to stop calling myself a Liberal because what "Liberal" means is changing, or can we get this regressive side of liberalism under control?

There is not one specific point in this rant to respond to.

Which liberal thinker of today do you have a problem with?

Noam Chomsky?

I have a problem with Chomsky. His voice sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard. And that makes everything he says resemble a kid in a shopping cart screaming at the checkout stand. I don't know if if he ever says anything worthwhile because I can't listen to him.

 

[untermensche]

I have a problem with Chomsky. His voice sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard. And that makes everything he says resemble a kid in a shopping cart screaming at the checkout stand. I don't know if if he ever says anything worthwhile because I can't listen to him.

I have no such problem.

But none-the-less he is a member of the intellectual left.

He and others like him are the "left".

Not college students. They are people trying to find their way in the world.

 

[Trausti]

When did this happen? Has it always been there and simply risen to prominence?

I think I can remember when being liberal meant being for free speech, including speech you strongly disagree with. I remember religious and quasi-religious crusades against everything from porn to Donald Duck not wearing pants to the Teletubbies (the pink one was said to be gay!) and demands to pull books off of shelves and to censor anything and everything. It was the liberals who stood against this. But today? "Safe Spaces"? "Trigger warnings"? "Micro-Aggressions"? Speakers cancelled because what they say offends somebody? When did the left become about shutting people up with self-righteous rage, instead of hearing people out and defeating them in the marketplace of ideas?

Wisdom is knowing and understanding the valuable insights of those you disagree with.

I recently followed David Rubin's exodus from the Young Turks. I had agreed, and still agree, with a lot of what they have to say, but my goodness have they jumped the shark. Cenk and Anna have turned into the equivalent of Fox News only from the other side. Rubin actually hears people out, even those he completely disagrees with, and I find it refreshing. Why is that no longer the norm?

I think that as liberals, we care more about the outsiders of the world, and have more empathy towards the outgroup. So we fight for the rights of minorities, be they black, gay, etc, and for immigrants and others around the world who are in need or who are oppressed. Equality and fair treatment matter a lot to us. But lazy thinking can carry that over into wanting to reflexively defend any individual minority member regardless of what they have done, or defending a group or ideology on the outs, and protecting it from criticism, even when those criticisms are against ultra-conservatism in that ideology (ie, Whenever we criticize Islam).

How do we bring liberals back to actual liberal values?

Being a classical liberal am I going to have to stop calling myself a Liberal because what "Liberal" means is changing, or can we get this regressive side of liberalism under control?

The regressive left is a product of the "everyone gets a trophy" philosophy of the past decade(s).

[video]http://www.cc.com/video-clips/3uruxp/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-christina-hoff-sommers[/video]

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

For background http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/205205/liberals-mugged-by-progressives

Yes, that's the guy I referenced. I really enjoy his work.

 

[untermensche]

The regressive left is a product of the "everyone gets a trophy" philosophy of the past decade(s).

Yes, her incredible evidence is that there are some schoolyards where children are not allowed to play tag.

Her conclusions might match your prejudices but they are total nonsense deduced from no real studies on anything.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Like most bad ideas, it started as a good idea but then some people took it too far. The essence of political correctness started out as the idea that you should be nice to people and not say anything that they would find harmful. Then some took that to a crazy extreme that you need to silence anyone who says something which you find harmful. Then others took it to the even crazier extreme that because these words can be harmful, people need to be protected from ever hearing them and there should be consequences against you someone is hurt by your words.

Although we spend most of our time disparaging right wingers here, we must remember that just because someone is on the left doesn't mean that they're not also an idiot. In response to how to bring liberals back to liberal values, we should realize that these crazies aren't the ones who represent liberal values and just do absolutely nothing more than we're doing now - aside from going out of our way to laugh at these crazy weirdoes now and again just to hammer home the point that they don't actually speak to us. However, as a moderator of this site, I do need to stress that whenever you do this, you need to include a trigger warning in your post and put your comments in hide tags in order to ensure that you're not invading anybody's safe space or you will be banned on the spot.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

He and others like him are the "left".

Not college students. They are people trying to find their way in the world.

what is the "left" depends on how people use that label. Recently we've seen a lot of people as I describe in the OP who claim to be the left. If they are not the left, then that is great, and I think that is where the label "Regressive left" comes from. The question is how do we stop them from taking over what is meant as "liberal" and how do we keep actual liberal values like free speech alive and thriving?

 

[untermensche]

Like most bad ideas, it started as a good idea but then some people took it too far. The essence of political correctness started out as the idea that you should be nice to people and not say anything that they would find harmful. Then some took that to a crazy extreme that you need to silence anyone who says something which you find harmful. Then others took it to the even crazier extreme that because these words can be harmful, people need to be protected from ever hearing them and there should be consequences against you someone is hurt by your words.

Although we spend most of our time disparaging right wingers here, we must remember that just because someone is on the left doesn't mean that they're not also an idiot. In response to how to bring liberals back to liberal values, we should realize that these crazies aren't the ones who represent liberal values and just do absolutely nothing more than we're doing now - aside from going out of our way to laugh at these crazy weirdoes now and again just to hammer home the point that they don't actually speak to us. However, as a moderator of this site, I do need to stress that whenever you do this, you need to include a trigger warning in your post and put your comments in hide tags in order to ensure that you're not invading anybody's safe space or you will be banned on the spot.

"Political Correctness" is a tiny meaningless phenomena on some college campuses.

It has no relation to the real world and is a phony issue.

And most importantly it has nothing to do with the "left" which as described by Gore Vidal, another intellectual on the left, is a movement to increase democracy, to empower as many as possible.

As opposed to the "right", which in the US is about increasing the power of wealth. The power of a minority. It is the belief that money is more important than people.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

He and others like him are the "left".

Not college students. They are people trying to find their way in the world.

what is the "left" depends on how people use that label. Recently we've seen a lot of people as I describe in the OP who claim to be the left. If they are not the left, then that is great, and I think that is where the label "Regressive left" comes from. The question is how do we stop them from taking over what is meant as "liberal" and how do we keep actual liberal values like free speech alive and thriving?

The term "regressive left" is used as a label by people on the right who are trying to label an entire half of the spectrum as regressive, when actually speaking about a small portion of the left that has very little in the way of influence or power.

The regressive left movement wants to take "tolerance" a bit too far and can be heard loudly on the internet. The right-wing passed legislation to purposefully restrict access to voting for minorities. OMG SJWs!!!

 

[untermensche]

He and others like him are the "left".

Not college students. They are people trying to find their way in the world.

what is the "left" depends on how people use that label. Recently we've seen a lot of people as I describe in the OP who claim to be the left. If they are not the left, then that is great, and I think that is where the label "Regressive left" comes from. The question is how do we stop them from taking over what is meant as "liberal" and how do we keep actual liberal values like free speech alive and thriving?

Who over the age of 22 cares about so-called "political correctness", besides those using it as a phony issue to distract from real issues?

 

[ronburgundy]

When did this happen? Has it always been there and simply risen to prominence?

I think I can remember when being liberal meant being for free speech, including speech you strongly disagree with. I remember religious and quasi-religious crusades against everything from porn to Donald Duck not wearing pants to the Teletubbies (the pink one was said to be gay!) and demands to pull books off of shelves and to censor anything and everything. It was the liberals who stood against this. But today? "Safe Spaces"? "Trigger warnings"? "Micro-Aggressions"? Speakers cancelled because what they say offends somebody? When did the left become about shutting people up with self-righteous rage, instead of hearing people out and defeating them in the marketplace of ideas?

Wisdom is knowing and understanding the valuable insights of those you disagree with.

I recently followed David Rubin's exodus from the Young Turks. I had agreed, and still agree, with a lot of what they have to say, but my goodness have they jumped the shark. Cenk and Anna have turned into the equivalent of Fox News only from the other side. Rubin actually hears people out, even those he completely disagrees with, and I find it refreshing. Why is that no longer the norm?

I think that as liberals, we care more about the outsiders of the world, and have more empathy towards the outgroup. So we fight for the rights of minorities, be they black, gay, etc, and for immigrants and others around the world who are in need or who are oppressed. Equality and fair treatment matter a lot to us. But lazy thinking can carry that over into wanting to reflexively defend any individual minority member regardless of what they have done, or defending a group or ideology on the outs, and protecting it from criticism, even when those criticisms are against ultra-conservatism in that ideology (ie, Whenever we criticize Islam).

How do we bring liberals back to actual liberal values?

Being a classical liberal am I going to have to stop calling myself a Liberal because what "Liberal" means is changing, or can we get this regressive side of liberalism under control?

There is not one specific point in this rant to respond to.

Which liberal thinker of today do you have a problem with?

He doesn't have a problem with any liberal "thinker", but with "progressives" that don't think and just mindlessly presume that the less white and less male person in any conflict is always correct, unless of course the male came by their maleness via a transgender identification rather than by their biological sex, in which case they are always correct.

 

[untermensche]

what is the "left" depends on how people use that label. Recently we've seen a lot of people as I describe in the OP who claim to be the left. If they are not the left, then that is great, and I think that is where the label "Regressive left" comes from. The question is how do we stop them from taking over what is meant as "liberal" and how do we keep actual liberal values like free speech alive and thriving?

The term "regressive left" is used as a label by people on the right who are trying to label an entire half of the spectrum as regressive, when actually speaking about a small portion of the left that has very little in the way of influence or power.

The regressive left movement wants to take "tolerance" a bit too far and can be heard loudly on the internet. The right-wing passed legislation to purposefully restrict access to voting for minorities. OMG SJWs!!!

It is not tolerance.

It is intolerance to bullying and forms of harmful speech.

The opposition to it is the naive idea that speech cannot cause harm.

And of course it is always a balance.

A balance between the desire for people to be able to express themselves and people not wanting to be harmed.

White people used to like to say the word "nigger" in public. Even governors. It was abusive and it made them somehow feel superior.

But white people don't do it much anymore.

Are we really concerned about their hesitancy to express themselves freely? Their "political correctness"?

 

[untermensche]

He doesn't have a problem with any liberal "thinker", but with "progressives" that don't think and just mindlessly presume that the less white and less male person in any conflict is always correct, unless of course the male came by their maleness via a transgender identification rather than by their biological sex, in which case they are always correct.

This is something that has nothing to do with the "left".

And it does not exist anywhere in the real world.

 

[ronburgundy]

He doesn't have a problem with any liberal "thinker", but with "progressives" that don't think and just mindlessly presume that the less white and less male person in any conflict is always correct, unless of course the male came by their maleness via a transgender identification rather than by their biological sex, in which case they are always correct.

This is something that has nothing to do with the "left".

And it does not exist anywhere in the real world.

It has everything to do with the left and exists increasingly all over, on this board, on college campuses, in political discourse, etc.. It is the mentality behind almost every accusation of "Islamophobia", behind every attempt to get speakers on college campuses banned and uninvited, behind the push for safe spaces that ban particular ideas from being expressed, behind the notion that every concern raised about the massive flood of Muslim immigrants is nothing more than racist xenophobia, behind the dismissal of every concern about people with penises being allowed to use girls locker rooms as "bigotry" towards transgenders, and on and on.

It is rooted in an a leftist ideology that has no regard for the principles of personal liberty, free speech, and the central role that secularism has played in all moral and political advancement in the west over the last 300 years. In fact, the very reality that any such advances have occurred are often denied.
It is an ideology myopically focused upon group-level inequality in power between racial and gender groups, and thus takes whatever position grants more power to the member of the generally less powerful group.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

He doesn't have a problem with any liberal "thinker", but with "progressives" that don't think and just mindlessly presume that the less white and less male person in any conflict is always correct, unless of course the male came by their maleness via a transgender identification rather than by their biological sex, in which case they are always correct.

This is something that has nothing to do with the "left".

And it does not exist anywhere in the real world.

That is only a small part of it, and yes it does exist in the real world. We see it right here on this forum on a routine basis now.

Good article linked to above btw. Just read through it and it is an example of exactly what I was talking about.

Key liberal values like free speech and secularism shoved aside because a minority may feel hurt by what is said, and people labelled and told what they are saying because they don't conform to a "progressive" agenda (making them actually regressive).

I like the term "Regressive Left" because it distinguishes from the rest of the left. I hope it sticks and people learn to distinguish the two as you are saying above. Progressive vs Regressive, etc.

 

[untermensche]

This is something that has nothing to do with the "left".

And it does not exist anywhere in the real world.

It has everything to do with the left and exists increasingly all over, on this board, on college campuses, in political discourse, etc.. It is the mentality behind almost every accusation of "Islamophobia", behind every attempt to get speakers on college campuses banned and uninvited, behind the push for safe spaces that ban particular ideas from being expressed, behind the notion that every concern raised about the massive flood of Muslim immigrants is nothing more than racist xenophobia, behind the dismissal of every concern about people with penises being allowed to use girls locker rooms as "bigotry" towards transgenders, and on and on.

It is rooted in an a leftist ideology that has no regard for the principles of personal liberty, free speech, and the central role that secularism has played in all moral and political advancement in the west over the last 300 years. In fact, the very reality that any such advances have occurred are often denied.
It is an ideology myopically focused upon group-level inequality in power between racial and gender groups, and thus takes whatever position grants more power to the member of the generally less powerful group.

You have removed my words from their context.

Convenient.

It exists on this board? What does that mean?

You are ranting about non-issues.

Who uses a bathroom stall? Please!!!

Real issues are issues like shrinking opportunity for most in a plutocracy.

What does the "left" have to say about this?