The Scooter Libby Pardon - a Serious Constitutional Crisis

[Jimmy Higgins]

I doubt he'll get much for it tbh. If one is smart or slick enough to obtain a staff position at the WH then they're probably also smart or slick enough to recognize a guarantee from Trump isn't worth spit.

Oh? It costs Cheato nothing to issue pardons (a normal president would suffer political currency loss.) Sheriff Joe is running free... Scooter is "exonerated" .... everyone he's winking at knows there's a good chance he'll follow through on pardon promises because - why not? If it actually cost him something, the targets might be more skeptical. As it is, what a deal for Cheato, what a deal for his toadies, and what a conundrum for reasonable conservatives.
Unless Republicans revolt en masse or both houses get flipped, we're in real danger from Twitler.

The pardon of Libby is a bit odd. Libby doesn’t get a huge load off of his shoulders. His sentence was commuted and Libby’s relationship to Trump is non-existent as far as we know, unless the walrus required it before he became NSA.

I’m not losing sleep over this. Cohen recorded lots of meetings and his testimony might not even be needed. And Manafort evaded Virginia taxes and state laws were broken.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

It's strange what is considered a constitutional crisis.

The pardon is specifically listed as a presidential power. Declaring war is specifically listed as a congressional power. Trump fires missiles at Syria, and while people think it is lame (and likely a distraction for other troubles) it is not considered a constitutional crisis. Trump pardons Libby and that is considered a constitutional crisis.

 

[Trausti]

It's strange what is considered a constitutional crisis.

The pardon is specifically listed as a presidential power. Declaring war is specifically listed as a congressional power. Trump fires missiles at Syria, and while people think it is lame (and likely a distraction for other troubles) it is not considered a constitutional crisis. Trump pardons Libby and that is considered a constitutional crisis.

It's Stage 4 Trump Derangement Syndrome.

 

[blastula]

Riiiiight. His convictions were based on a jury finding he lied about being the source identifying Valerie Plame's covert CIA status. Which the special prosecutor at that time knew to be truthful.

No. Armitage was Novak's source. Novak is the one who first reported about Plame. But Armitage wasn't the only one who leaked her identity (Fleischer, Rove, et al also did). Novak was the only one to report it though. Libby wasn't convicted for lying about leaking to Novak, he was convicted for lying about his conversations with other reporters.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Entirely aside from this case.... why do presidential pardons exist at all?

I've always found that patently corrupt.

Its right up there with your electoral college, while pretending to be a democracy.

Perhaps by being more blatant about the abuses, Trump will inspire the USA to reform and become less corrupt. That may be a legit silver lining to his having been elected.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

It exists as a check on the government. If you look carefully you'll see that any one branch can stymie the other branches unless they are really dedicated at working together. The legislature can refuse to pass a law or refuse to allocate funding. The president can veto, set enforcement priorities, and can pardon. The judicial can overturn laws that have been passed, and the jury can refuse to convict even if the law clearly was broken.

It all comes down to "I'd rather see a guilty person go free than an innocent person punished."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Entirely aside from this case.... why do presidential pardons exist at all?

I've always found that patently corrupt.

Its right up there with your electoral college, while pretending to be a democracy.

Perhaps by being more blatant about the abuses, Trump will inspire the USA to reform and become less corrupt. That may be a legit silver lining to his having been elected.

It is to protect people from being held responsible in any manner for things like leaking the secret identities of our nation's biggest spies .

 

[bilby]

Entirely aside from this case.... why do presidential pardons exist at all?

I've always found that patently corrupt.

Its right up there with your electoral college, while pretending to be a democracy.

Perhaps by being more blatant about the abuses, Trump will inspire the USA to reform and become less corrupt. That may be a legit silver lining to his having been elected.

It's a legacy of monarchy. When the US was founded, the system put in place was intended to be as similar as possible to the previous regime, with only those changes thought necessary for the establishment of a republic.

The King of England had the power to pardon criminals, and so that power was granted to the President of the United States, as a matter of inertia as much as anything else.

The purpose of royal pardons was to improve the image of the crown, by portraying the King as merciful; At a time when the law consisted of harsh punishments (execution by hanging was common for even very minor offences) and capricious (most criminals had a reasonable expectation of not being caught in the absence of a permanent police force or any real forensic science, and the innocent had a non-trivial chance of being condemned due to a false accusation), the King could pardon criminals and spare their lives in a direct and deliberate parody of the mercy of God, whom he was considered to represent (both as the divinely appointed monarch, and as the head of the established church).

It is a seriously outdated feature of US law, as a hangover of both monarchy and government sanctioned religion; IMO it should have been dropped at the same time as those.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Scooter Libby should have been considered a civil officer and been impeached.