The U.S. lacks belief in evolution in reference to the rest of the West. Why?

[iolo]

I think that the early fundamentalist binge was a trial run for McCarthyism and the current post-truth. I'm not sure when it was that Freud's nephew went over there and got involved in advertising, but the notions of manipulating opinion, 'Faith' in inherited nonsense and the simple instilling of fear seem to have got themselves twisted up together very early over there, and, I suppose, the denial of reality is always easier where there is a fair degree of prosperity - which is why it is weakening nowadays.

 

[Rayschism]

Faith is nonsense?

You do understand that, since faith is strength of conviction of one's belief without evidence or proof, or sometimes, even education, that is can also be secular, don't you?

There are many things that people believe without it being relation to religions such as Christianity.

For example, it takes faith to continue to search for a cure for cancer, and faith to believe that there is a cure for cancer.

 

[PyramidHead]

Faith is nonsense?

You do understand that, since faith is strength of conviction of one's belief without evidence or proof, or sometimes, even education, that is can also be secular, don't you?

There are many things that people believe without it being relation to religions such as Christianity.

For example, it takes faith to continue to search for a cure for cancer, and faith to believe that there is a cure for cancer.

If someone believes there's a cure for cancer because of faith, not evidence, then it's just as much nonsense as someone's belief in God without evidence. I work in cancer research. Nobody in the field is searching for 'a cure'. We all realize that cancer may never be cured, but we can still shoot for better therapies. Patients need us to make decisions based on the data, not on faith.

 

[bilby]

Faith is nonsense?

You do understand that, since faith is strength of conviction of one's belief without evidence or proof, or sometimes, even education, that is can also be secular, don't you?

There are many things that people believe without it being relation to religions such as Christianity.

For example, it takes faith to continue to search for a cure for cancer, and faith to believe that there is a cure for cancer.

Of course faith can be secular. And when it is, it's secular nonsense - Just as religious faith is religious nonsense.

Faith is only required for things that are not real, so anything that you can only believe on the basis of faith is, by definition, something you would be wiser not to believe at all.

And there cannot be 'a cure for cancer', because cancer is a category of illnesses, not an illness. You can no more have a cure for cancer than you can have a screw-thread that fits every nut.

 

[PyramidHead]

And there cannot be 'a cure for cancer', because cancer is a category of illnesses, not an illness. You can no more have a cure for cancer than you can have a screw-thread that fits every nut.

Exactly. I hate that trope. When conspiracy kooks say the US has a cure for cancer but keeps it hidden to boost pharmaceutical sales, I always wonder, which of the >100 types of cancer did they "cure", and how do they know it will never relapse in the people who have been cured, when every year patients with undetectable numbers of cancer cells still succumb to their disease eventually? At best, we wouldn't even know if we had a cure for perhaps a generation or two, just to gather enough data on persistence, and it's barely been a century since we've learned what cancer fundamentally is.

 

[Rayschism]

Faith is nonsense?

You do understand that, since faith is strength of conviction of one's belief without evidence or proof, or sometimes, even education, that is can also be secular, don't you?

There are many things that people believe without it being relation to religions such as Christianity.

For example, it takes faith to continue to search for a cure for cancer, and faith to believe that there is a cure for cancer.

Of course faith can be secular. And when it is, it's secular nonsense - Just as religious faith is religious nonsense.

Faith is only required for things that are not real, so anything that you can only believe on the basis of faith is, by definition, something you would be wiser not to believe at all.

And there cannot be 'a cure for cancer', because cancer is a category of illnesses, not an illness. You can no more have a cure for cancer than you can have a screw-thread that fits every nut.

If it's nonsense in all things, then how can people live without it? And if they can't live without faith, then how can we have hope for a better life? If we can't have hope, then why not just commit suicide?

A lot of people in America live in poverty and have other kinds of terrible lieves and have faith that things will get better for them. How is that nonsense?

 

[ronburgundy]

Of course faith can be secular. And when it is, it's secular nonsense - Just as religious faith is religious nonsense.

Faith is only required for things that are not real, so anything that you can only believe on the basis of faith is, by definition, something you would be wiser not to believe at all.

And there cannot be 'a cure for cancer', because cancer is a category of illnesses, not an illness. You can no more have a cure for cancer than you can have a screw-thread that fits every nut.

If it's nonsense in all things, then how can people live without it? And if they can't live without faith, then how can we have hope for a better life? If we can't have hope, then why not just commit suicide?

A lot of people in America live in poverty and have other kinds of terrible lieves and have faith that things will get better for them. How is that nonsense?

You are adept at confusing completely different concepts that are sometimes referred to with the same word.
You are referring to hope that something will become true (e.g., that one will no longer be sick or poor), which it not at all the same thing as faith that something is true (e.g., that God exists). Hope is neither rational nor irrational. It is merely a wish that things will get better. Evidence that it will actually get better is irrelevant to whether hope is rational, because to hope for it doesn't mean to believe it definitely will be so. In contrast, things that are already in fact true should have evidence showing they are true and there should not be evidence indicating they are false. To have faith that something is true means you are going against rational thought and against the evidence to conclude that it is in fact true, when nothing supports it.

A cure for cancer is a possibility consistent with everything we already know. Thus, hoping for a cure does not require believing anything that goes against reason or the evidence. Believing their is already a cure or that there is already a God that will cure it is irrational faith that does go against reason.

 

[ronburgundy]

Approximately half of all the people working in research of all the sciences are religious, of one flavor or another. They understand it just fine.

Not quite. Only in the most vague sense of the word "religious" are about half of scientists religious. In terms of theistic religion, the % is far smaller, and even in the generally very religious US only about 33%. Plus, among the scientists claiming some form of theism, the vast majority identify with sects that have been shown to have far lower levels of actual "religiosity", meaning actually taking religion seriously and practicing it and thinking about it rather than just going through the motions on holidays. For example, it includes the 8% of US scientists who say they are "Jewish", but anyone who hangs out with Jewish scientists knows that very few of them are any more "religious" than most atheists. Of the rest, Catholics and Mainline protestants outnumber Evangelical Christians by more than 6 to 1. This is in contrast to the general public where that ratio is less than 2 to 1. Research shows that a huge % of Catholics and Mainline Protestants are "religious" only in most superficial sense compared to Evangelicals who are far more likely to say they actually practice their religion and implement their religious beliefs into their daily lives.

In sum, the % of Scientists that have a strong sincere belief in theistic religion is likely somewhere between 10% and 20%. And not all practicing scientists actually understand and believe in science outside the very narrow area they work in, with that work often being more of a lab tech who just follows standard procedures rather than applying scientific reasoning to hard theoretical questions. For example, Collins has proven he is dangerously ignorant of basic principles of evidence based thinking outside of the technical lab work he makes a living doing.

 

[Rayschism]

If it's nonsense in all things, then how can people live without it? And if they can't live without faith, then how can we have hope for a better life? If we can't have hope, then why not just commit suicide?

A lot of people in America live in poverty and have other kinds of terrible lieves and have faith that things will get better for them. How is that nonsense?

You are adept at confusing completely different concepts that are sometimes referred to with the same word.
You are referring to hope that something will become true (e.g., that one will no longer be sick or poor), which it not at all the same thing as faith that something is true (e.g., that God exists). Hope is neither rational nor irrational. It is merely a wish that things will get better. Evidence that it will actually get better is irrelevant to whether hope is rational, because to hope for it doesn't mean to believe it definitely will be so. In contrast, things that are already in fact true should have evidence showing they are true and there should not be evidence indicating they are false. To have faith that something is true means you are going against rational thought and against the evidence to conclude that it is in fact true, when nothing supports it.

A cure for cancer is a possibility consistent with everything we already know. Thus, hoping for a cure does not require believing anything that goes against reason or the evidence. Believing their is already a cure or that there is already a God that will cure it is irrational faith that does go against reason.

Sometimes people love to make things more complicated than they actually are.

So if answers can only come from reason, how is that any different that believing that God only provides answers?

 

[iolo]

Faith is nonsense?

You do understand that, since faith is strength of conviction of one's belief without evidence or proof, or sometimes, even education, that is can also be secular, don't you?

There are many things that people believe without it being relation to religions such as Christianity.

For example, it takes faith to continue to search for a cure for cancer, and faith to believe that there is a cure for cancer.

Faith is a belief not based on evidence, religious or otherwise. I think we should go by such evidence as we have, and likelihood. The number of people no longer dying of cancer (I'm one myself) is growing every day.