• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

The US Constitution's declining influence

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 27, 2000
Messages
26,850
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Declining influence of the United States Constitution Journalist's Resource: Research for Reporting, from Harvard Shorenstein Center
The Declining Influence of the United States Constitution by David S. Law, Mila Versteeg :: SSRN
(PDF of paper is open access)

The adoption of the United States Constitution is arguably the beginning of our current era of democratic constitutional republicanism and quasi-republicanism. I say quasi-republicanism to accommodate monarchies that have become ceremonial ones, sometimes also professional-celebrity ones.

The US Constitution has influenced many other ones, notably several Latin American ones. This influence is not only in being its existence as a written constitution, but also some of its content and features like judicial review. Some other constitutions even have word-for-word copies of parts of it.

But is the US Constitution's influence fading? DSL and MV have examined this issue in detail. They find that not only is its influence fading, but also that some recent constitutions have not had any special influence: those of Canada, Germany, South Africa, and India. Instead, what is happening is an emergence of a sort of collective body of constitutional practice that recent constitutions and constitutional changes have tended to follow.


DSL and MV first consider rights recognized in various constitutions. It was sometimes difficult to code what the constitutions state in suitable cross-constitutional form, but they succeeded in coming up with 60 possible rights. Like freedom of religion, freedom of expression, right to life, right to private property, right to access to court, right to vote, right to work, right to unionize, right to form poliical parties, right to education, right to information about government, right to bear arms, ...

Some of them, like freedom of religion, are much more popular than some others, like the right to bear arms, currently featured only in the constitutions of the US, Mexico, and Guatemala. In fact, protection of fetuses, though not a popular provision, is recognized by more nations. In fact, one can work out a bill of rights of commonly-recognized rights. The US Constitution recognizes some of them, like freedom of expression and right of access to court, but not others, like right to work and presumption of innocence. The US has some that are not in that generic BOR, like a right to bear arms and a right not to be self-incriminated.


Turning to structural features of the US Constitution, judicial review has been widely adopted, though often in the form of special constitutional courts. Judicial review, though a notable part of US constitutional law, is not explicitly stated in the US Constitution, though it is explicit in some other ones. Federalism, or strong regional autonomy has had only limited popularity, as has presidentialism. Parliamentary and mixed systems are more common. They ought to have also considered proportional representation, something that has become very common, though it is still rare in the Anglo-American parts of the world.

Close ties to the US have not stopped countries from having dissimilar constitutions, but Anglo-American nations and ex-colonies tend to have constitutions more like the US one than most others do.

As to why the US Constitution is such an oddity, it's a consequence of (1) its age and (2) the difficulty of amending it. Most other nations' constitutions are much easier to amend, and have been amended much more often. The average constitution has a 38% chance of being amended each year and a median replacement time of 19 years. But the US Constitution was adopted in 1793, 221 years ago, and amended only 27 times. The first 10 times were in a burst around its adoption, and the other 17 times were mainly in later bursts, in the 1860's, the 1910's, and the 1960's.

Not surprisingly, it has gotten a lot of criticism for its awkward and undemocratic features.

Even so, various laws and judicial decisions have acted as a sort of extracanonical constitution. Another approach that may become more popular is workarounds like the National Popular Vote -- Electoral college reform by direct election of the President.
 
The Evolution and Ideology of Global Constitutionalism by David S. Law, Mila Versteeg :: SSRN

They discovered that many nations' constitutions have accreted rights over time. First, the likes of freedom of expression and the right to vote. Next, the likes of freedom of education and the right to create political parties. Finally, the likes of right to information and prohibition of the death penalty. They did a factor analysis and discovered that this was the main main axis of variation among constitution.

The second one was libertarian vs. statist: which additional rights get added? On the libertarian side, the rights added were the likes of a right to a public trial and freedom of movement. On the statist side, the rights added were the likes of a right to sustenance/work/education/marriage/family and duties of citizens. The libertarian side is mostly Anglo-American, with the UK's and US's ex-colonies, while the statist side is a mixture of autocracies, Communist regimes, and European social-welfare states. Luxembourg and North Korea certainly make strange bedfellows.

There were some rights that did not fit, like a right to bear arms and a state religion.

Sham Constitutions by David S. Law, Mila Versteeg :: SSRN

Governments may promise a lot or a little in their constitutions, and deliver a lot or a little in practice. Here are four types, with typical examples:
[table="class: grid"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Promises little[/td]
[td]Promises a lot[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Delivers little[/td]
[td]Weak: Saudi Arabia[/td]
[td]Sham: Sudan[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Delivers a lot[/td]
[td]Modest: Australia[/td]
[td]Strong: Finland[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Transnational Constitutions by Benedikt Goderis, Mila Versteeg :: SSRN

Are constitutions really a marker of national distinctness?
Our results show that countries follow the choices of their former colonizer, countries with the same legal origin, the same religion, the same former colonizer, and the same aid donor. These transnational influences are strongest when a nation adopts its first constitution. At this time, no less than 46 percent of the variation in a bill of rights results from transnational influences.

Unpopular Constitutionalism by Mila Versteeg :: SSRN

Recent constitution-writers have tended to copy from each other, thus producing features that sizable sections of the population may dislike.

Constitutional Variation Among Strains of Authoritarianism by David S. Law, Mila Versteeg :: SSRN

Two possible approaches:
  • Sham: a Potemkin village for impressing citizens, other governments, and activists
  • Weak: brutal honesty for showing everybody what to expect

Three main types of authoritarian regimes, with these sources of legitimacy:
  • Monarchical -- tradition and religion
  • Military -- brute force
  • Civilian -- ideology and leaders' charisma
Monarchical and military regimes have tended to have weak constitutions, while civilian ones have in recent years tended to have sham ones. This suggests that the first two have not felt the need to impress everybody about how virtuous they are, while the third sort has.

Finally,

American Constitutional Exceptionalism Revisited by Mila Versteeg, Emily Zackin :: SSRN

A look at US state constitutions. They have been amended numerous times, and many of them are much larger than the national one, but also have many provisions that are common elsewhere in the world, even if not explicitly in the national one. This suggests that the national one is exceptional only in being old and difficult to amend.
 
The very rich in this country have never felt bound by the constitution or even the law at all. Yes, the constitution is exerting far less influence on the actions of all of us than it used to. Only one of the ten amendments in the Bill of Rights appears to be holding strong and that is the one that should go...ole number two. It had been Jefferson's intention that it be revisited every twenty years and reconsidered. Its main intent was to keep the population armed to face possible British attempt to retake the colonies. Over concern with some imagined need for the average citizen to be able to inflict great harm on others seems to a much revered idea in America. To , it is without merit and does not foster a civil society.

Once your important rights are taken from you, being armed does you not good, unless you think suicide by firearm is some kind of solution to life's insoluble problems.
 
I'd really like a new constitution, but I'm afraid of what it might like if we're to rewrite it any time soon. I really hate how ambiguous it and how the law can just change depending on who is on the Supreme Court. I also hate how there is no adequate enforcement mechanism on it.

Regardless though of whether or not you think we should rewrite it , we should all be having a public debate about what the ideal constitution would look like. If you think the constitution we have now is perfect, you should rewrite your interpretation of it in your own words and try to make it as clear as possible.

Any constitution should have three parts:
1) A basic outline – more or less what our constitution is right now.
2) An indexed, more in-depth explanation and the philosophy of each clause in the outline.
3) A list case scenarios that borderline on what is constitutional and what is not and an explanation of how the case should be ruled.
 
The very rich in this country have never felt bound by the constitution or even the law at all. Yes, the constitution is exerting far less influence on the actions of all of us than it used to. Only one of the ten amendments in the Bill of Rights appears to be holding strong and that is the one that should go...ole number two. It had been Jefferson's intention that it be revisited every twenty years and reconsidered. Its main intent was to keep the population armed to face possible British attempt to retake the colonies. Over concern with some imagined need for the average citizen to be able to inflict great harm on others seems to a much revered idea in America. To , it is without merit and does not foster a civil society.

Once your important rights are taken from you, being armed does you not good, unless you think suicide by firearm is some kind of solution to life's insoluble problems.

You have a cite for the bolded section?
 
I'd really like a new constitution, but I'm afraid of what it might like if we're to rewrite it any time soon. I really hate how ambiguous it and how the law can just change depending on who is on the Supreme Court. I also hate how there is no adequate enforcement mechanism on it.

Regardless though of whether or not you think we should rewrite it , we should all be having a public debate about what the ideal constitution would look like. If you think the constitution we have now is perfect, you should rewrite your interpretation of it in your own words and try to make it as clear as possible.

Any constitution should have three parts:
1) A basic outline – more or less what our constitution is right now.
2) An indexed, more in-depth explanation and the philosophy of each clause in the outline.
3) A list case scenarios that borderline on what is constitutional and what is not and an explanation of how the case should be ruled.

2) Buy an indexed outline. There are many. It's what law students read when they are burned out on case law.
3) That is basically how it works. It's the entire point of Case law. Read through the SCOUTS decisions. They play around with hypotheticals and borderlines. Granted there has to be an actual case or controvert first (and certiorari) , but this need not be a bad thing. There are an infinite number of permutations of "how should it apply" especially when looked at from the vantage point of history. If intellectuals want to play around with hypotheticals they can publish it in some law review and it will waft up the system.
 
The very rich in this country have never felt bound by the constitution or even the law at all.

We have made a lot of progress from the divine right of kings. Rich and powerful people go to jail (not as often as us regular folk, but they can be brought down.)

Yes, the constitution is exerting far less influence on the actions of all of us than it used to. Only one of the ten amendments in the Bill of Rights appears to be holding strong and that is the one that should go...ole number two.

Eh, it waxes and wains with history. The first 150 years they didn't even really pay any attention to the bill of rights and it wasn't until 1925 that we applied the amendments to the states via the 14th amendment. Whether or not we are following the constitution tends to depend on which side you are on. I personally see the war on drugs, terrorism, and "think of the children" laws as eroding our constitution. However, we have been through similar i.g. the first an second Red Scare.
 
I'd really like a new constitution, but I'm afraid of what it might like if we're to rewrite it any time soon. I really hate how ambiguous it and how the law can just change depending on who is on the Supreme Court. I also hate how there is no adequate enforcement mechanism on it.

Regardless though of whether or not you think we should rewrite it , we should all be having a public debate about what the ideal constitution would look like. If you think the constitution we have now is perfect, you should rewrite your interpretation of it in your own words and try to make it as clear as possible.

Any constitution should have three parts:
1) A basic outline – more or less what our constitution is right now.
2) An indexed, more in-depth explanation and the philosophy of each clause in the outline.
3) A list case scenarios that borderline on what is constitutional and what is not and an explanation of how the case should be ruled.

2) Buy an indexed outline. There are many. It's what law students read when they are burned out on case law.
3) That is basically how it works. It's the entire point of Case law. Read through the SCOUTS decisions. They play around with hypotheticals and borderlines. Granted there has to be an actual case or controvert first (and certiorari) , but this need not be a bad thing. There are an infinite number of permutations of "how should it apply" especially when looked at from the vantage point of history. If intellectuals want to play around with hypotheticals they can publish it in some law review and it will waft up the system.

The original constitution didn't have this. The closest thing we have as a guide to interpret the constitution was the Federalist Papers and that doesn't nearly cover everything and authors themselves didn't even agree on how to interpret the constitution. I want the documentations and explanations to be official and signed off by the authors. I don't want them to be post hoc interpretations by SCOTUS. I understand that it may be impossible to spell out every last detail, but we should make sure that judges have as little wiggle room as possible.
 
The original constitution didn't have this.

So you are willing to throw out everything since Marbury v. Madison?
The closest thing we have as a guide to interpret the constitution was the Federalist Papers and that doesn't nearly cover everything and authors themselves didn't even agree on how to interpret the constitution.
No one ever agrees, it's political. We also have then entire corpus of common law to draw on. Look into the summaries by Edward Coke and William Blackstone

I want the documentations and explanations to be official and signed off by the authors. I don't want them to be post hoc interpretations by SCOTUS. I understand that it may be impossible to spell out every last detail, but we should make sure that judges have as little wiggle room as possible.

So you want to be chained to the dead grave of centuries past? I bet you would happy, like everyone else, until you disagree with something. Do you want original meaning like Scalia? Or do you want textualism (you treat it like a contract and go by the words with no interest in the psychology of the writers?) Or do you want original intent -- not to be confused with "original meaning".

Do you think you can make a set of simple universal laws? Do you really think more examples in the original document would lead to less debate later on? Do you favor natural law or positive law?

If we keep going, this will turn into a debate as stupid as free will. Or the one currently in science on infinite regress of time. Everyone will sake out a position and stretch the argument so that it leads in circle proving the other sides point.

And if you do somehow manage to figure it out someone will come up with the idea that the language you used is inherently racist.
 
So you are willing to throw out everything since Marbury v. Madison?
The closest thing we have as a guide to interpret the constitution was the Federalist Papers and that doesn't nearly cover everything and authors themselves didn't even agree on how to interpret the constitution.
No one ever agrees, it's political. We also have then entire corpus of common law to draw on. Look into the summaries by Edward Coke and William Blackstone

I want the documentations and explanations to be official and signed off by the authors. I don't want them to be post hoc interpretations by SCOTUS. I understand that it may be impossible to spell out every last detail, but we should make sure that judges have as little wiggle room as possible.

So you want to be chained to the dead grave of centuries past? I bet you would happy, like everyone else, until you disagree with something. Do you want original meaning like Scalia? Or do you want textualism (you treat it like a contract and go by the words with no interest in the psychology of the writers?) Or do you want original intent -- not to be confused with "original meaning".

Do you think you can make a set of simple universal laws? Do you really think more examples in the original document would lead to less debate later on? Do you favor natural law or positive law?

If we keep going, this will turn into a debate as stupid as free will. Or the one currently in science on infinite regress of time. Everyone will sake out a position and stretch the argument so that it leads in circle proving the other sides point.

And if you do somehow manage to figure it out someone will come up with the idea that the language you used is inherently racist.

The problem I see with the constitution is that I don't think that we can get a concrete legitimate interpretation of it. I think it is a perfectly valid interpretation to say that the constitution prevents government from interfering with a citizen's rights to own nuclear weapons and that really disturbs me. If circumstances were ideal, I would want to write a new constitution and then rewrite it every 30 to 50 years. I also understand though that if we did this now, it would most likely be a disaster.

We should be thinking about this right now though so we can do a good job at it later down the line. I would like it if every high school forced their students to break up into teams and write their own constitution in the format I specified as an end of the year project.
 
...The closest thing we have as a guide to interpret the constitution was the Federalist Papers and that doesn't nearly cover everything and authors themselves didn't even agree on how to interpret the constitution....

The Federalist Papers are almost entirely the work of one man. Even the parts from Madison and the tiny contribution from Jay had to be dragged out of them by Hamilton.

Hamilton was a genius but that doesn't make him infallible.

The worship of the Federalist Papers by some is simply to side with Hamilton on, as you say, a few issues.

They aren't messages from the gods. And to base modern interpretations on them is pure caprice.
 
The problem I see with the constitution is that I don't think that we can get a concrete legitimate interpretation of it.

Concrete, I don't think it's possible. What is legitimate? I don't want 315 million people each with an opinion that counts. I want the constitution hard to amend. With all its flaws the SCOTUS works well over time. When there is an important case citizens can file amicus curiae briefs. These are pretty impressive and they are taken seriously with the law clerks. If you picked the best baseball players in the Major League the equivalent would be SCOTUS law clerks.

A case that I was interested in recently was Alice v. CLS Bank. Check out all the amicus curiae briefs: http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/alice-corporation-pty-ltd-v-cls-bank-international/

I think it is a perfectly valid interpretation to say that the constitution prevents government from interfering with a citizen's rights to own nuclear weapons and that really disturbs me.

It would be easier for a clandestine group in the US to acquire all the shit necessary for a nuclear bomb, than it would be to get enough judges on SCOTUS to agree with that interpretation.

If circumstances were ideal, I would want to write a new constitution and then rewrite it every 30 to 50 years.

Why not just judicial interpretations that change? Reinventing the wheel every 50 years does not seem like a good idea to me.

I also understand though that if we did this now, it would most likely be a disaster.
Not just now but anytime. You get your repeal of the 2nd amendment but we end up with a personhood clause that defines life at conception. These types of conflicts will always exist.

I'm leery of structural changes, as the same problems tend to manifest themselves in other ways. The Progressives got the primary vote which killed the power of the parties, but now any idiot with money can run for office. Parties used to play an important role in their communities. You could make a plausible argument the the outcome of the direct primary has led to less participation and a weakening of democracy. The same is true of term limits, we now see a rise in the power of staffers and lobbyists.

We should be thinking about this right now though so we can do a good job at it later down the line.
We are: https://www.law.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/organization/149739/doc/slspublic/CLC2014.pdf

I would like it if every high school forced their students to break up into teams and write their own constitution in the format I specified as an end of the year project.

If this exercise included history I'd be in favor of it it. I figure the teacher would learn more. I wouldn't want kids to think they can solve societies problems by just writhing them down on paper. I'm thinking it would take an intense college semester to get the important points across.
 
Last edited:
The big problem with the US constitution is that it is not only limited to the mechanism of government.

The idea that the question of what weapons one may own and use, and under what conditions and restrictions, is somehow above the level of statute law is truly silly - it is an artefact of local and ephemeral concerns for the authors of the constitution, and is no more suited to a place in a national constitution than is the question of what vehicles one may own and use, and under what conditions and restrictions.

A constitution should determine how the government operates. The government can then determine what rights and obligations exist, and can adapt the law as circumstances change. The right to drive a car needed to be limited as cars became more powerful and more common in society. The same is true of the right to bear arms - but because this right is foolishly included in your constitution, it has not been.

Our constitution sets out how laws will be made, and by whom; how the transition from disparate states to a federal system will be achieved; and it prohibits member states from collecting taxes, and from imposing internal barriers to trade. That is all.

It works very well.
 
The big problem with the US constitution is that it is not only limited to the mechanism of government.

The idea that the question of what weapons one may own and use, and under what conditions and restrictions, is somehow above the level of statute law is truly silly - it is an artefact of local and ephemeral concerns for the authors of the constitution, and is no more suited to a place in a national constitution than is the question of what vehicles one may own and use, and under what conditions and restrictions.

And a significant amount of people in the US disagree with you. So it is. A constitution has to take into account the history of the country for which it is crafted. If I'm not mistaken your constitution gives deference to the monarch, but has some legislative bill that prohibits it.

A constitution should determine how the government operates. The government can then determine what rights and obligations exist, and can adapt the law as circumstances change. The right to drive a car needed to be limited as cars became more powerful and more common in society. The same is true of the right to bear arms - but because this right is foolishly included in your constitution, it has not been.

That's basically what the entire thing is : Articles 1-7. The Bill of Rights has some other good stuff I wouldn't throw out. Your only bitch seems to be the 2nd amendment which may seem "truly silly to you", but is not to millions of Americans. What I think is truly silly is that you had a referendum on your national song.
 
And a significant amount of people in the US disagree with you. So it is. A constitution has to take into account the history of the country for which it is crafted. If I'm not mistaken your constitution gives deference to the monarch, but has some legislative bill that prohibits it.

A constitution should determine how the government operates. The government can then determine what rights and obligations exist, and can adapt the law as circumstances change. The right to drive a car needed to be limited as cars became more powerful and more common in society. The same is true of the right to bear arms - but because this right is foolishly included in your constitution, it has not been.

That's basically what the entire thing is : Articles 1-7. The Bill of Rights has some other good stuff I wouldn't throw out. Your only bitch seems to be the 2nd amendment which may seem "truly silly to you", but is not to millions of Americans. What I think is truly silly is that you had a referendum on your national song.
A significant amount of people in the US think that they have an eternal soul that will be saved by a zombie Jew who died 2,000 years ago, as long as they keep bashing gays. I am not too concerned about them disagreeing with me on either subject.

I would have put the Bill of Rights in law, not in the constitution; The second amendment to the US constitution is incredibly, insanely, stupidly inappropriate for inclusion in a national constitution (rather than being a mere law), and that millions of Americans can't or won't see this changes it not one iota; And yes, it was truly silly to have a referendum on our national song; and it is even sillier to have a monarch and foreigner as our head of state.

By including personal rights in your constitution you have turned it into a quasi-religious document, with lots of very stupid people claiming that it must remain pure and unsullied, as if that was a good reason for allowing people to own unlicensed self-loading rapid fire weapons.

A similar issue arises with the inclusion of the British monarch in our constitution; but at least HM the Q doesn't gun down hundreds of our citizens each year.
 
A significant amount of people in the US think that they have an eternal soul that will be saved by a zombie Jew who died 2,000 years ago, as long as they keep bashing gays. I am not too concerned about them disagreeing with me on either subject.

We would have to be concerned with them if we created a new constitution, which was my point. We were lucky enough to have an elite group of educated deists that made our current one.

I would have put the Bill of Rights in law, not in the constitution; The second amendment to the US constitution is incredibly, insanely, stupidly inappropriate for inclusion in a national constitution (rather than being a mere law), and that millions of Americans can't or won't see this changes it not one iota; And yes, it was truly silly to have a referendum on our national song; and it is even sillier to have a monarch and foreigner as our head of state.

By including personal rights in your constitution you have turned it into a quasi-religious document, with lots of very stupid people claiming that it must remain pure and unsullied, as if that was a good reason for allowing people to own unlicensed self-loading rapid fire weapons.

A similar issue arises with the inclusion of the British monarch in our constitution; but at least HM the Q doesn't gun down hundreds of our citizens each year.

The Bill of Rights was a compromise to get the states to ratify it. From there it's a matter of where do rights come from? If they come from Government, then there is no reason to put them in there. And that is a discussion I don't want to get into. In practice the first amendment has served us well. The 13th (slavery) and 19th (women's right to vote) are legit considering our history. The 18th (Prohibition) has to be the most stupid in my opinion and serves as an example of what can happen when a mass movement sweeps a country.
 
NobleSavage said:
Concrete, I don't think it's possible. What is legitimate? I don't want 315 million people each with an opinion that counts. I want the constitution hard to amend. With all its flaws the SCOTUS works well over time. When there is an important case citizens can file amicus curiae briefs. These are pretty impressive and they are taken seriously with the law clerks. If you picked the best baseball players in the Major League the equivalent would be SCOTUS law clerks.

A case that I was interested in recently was Alice v. CLS Bank. Check out all the amicus curiae briefs: http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/alice-corporation-pty-ltd-v-cls-bank-international/

I'm not sure how much amicus briefs help. It just helps justices rationalize what they want to do already. The supreme court isn't just calling balls and strikes; they have become a political body and the vagueness of our constitution has made it easy for this to happen.

It would be easier for a clandestine group in the US to acquire all the shit necessary for a nuclear bomb, than it would be to get enough judges on SCOTUS to agree with that interpretation

That isn't the point. The problem is that it allows for such a wide range of interpretation. I agree that it would be extremely unlikely for any justice to interpret it that way, but a lot of the time it would just be a post hoc rationalization because they know how bad it would be if anyone could own a nuclear weapon.

Why not just judicial interpretations that change? Reinventing the wheel every 50 years does not seem like a good idea to me.

That makes it easier to politicize the judicial process and you can never be sure what the law really is when it can flip on a dime. Obamacare might take another blow by SCOTUS and after that it will probably continue to be dismembered little by little. It is such a god damn waste of time and resources.

Not just now but anytime. You get your repeal of the 2nd amendment but we end up with a personhood clause that defines life at conception. These types of conflicts will always exist.

I'm leery of structural changes, as the same problems tend to manifest themselves in other ways. The Progressives got the primary vote which killed the power of the parties, but now any idiot with money can run for office. Parties used to play an important role in their communities. You could make a plausible argument the the outcome of the direct primary has led to less participation and a weakening of democracy. The same is true of term limits, we now see a rise in the power of staffers and lobbyists.

The problem with doing it right now is that we haven't had a national conversation about it and most people aren't even considering what a new constitutional would look like or what would be the consequences of adding certain elements. That is why I wanted high schools to do this as a final project. High schools should also teach about alternative voting systems and comparative government so they have a wide perspect.

There is also the problem of how you would organize the the creation of a new constitution. You don't want the factions with money to dominate the conversation about it and pick the delegates that get sent. You might need to get an amendment just to make sure that the process is as carefully done as possible.

If I had full control of the process I'd want something along the lines of this: Each state would send five delegates to the convention through proportional representation. At the convention, the delegates would separate into four caucuses and each caucus would create their own constitution. After the convention, there would be a national election in which citizens would rank the constitutions in order of preference and a Condorcet method would be used to select which constitution should be implemented. After the Condorcet winner has been determined there would be a national referendum on that constitution and if it doesn't get majority support, the process would start over from scratch.

We should be thinking about this right now though so we can do a good job at it later down the line.
We are: https://www.law.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/organization/149739/doc/slspublic/CLC2014.pdf

I can't hurt to learn more about the constitution, but I meant that we should be talking about what a new constitution should look like.
 
I'm confused. After we get your new 50 year constitution is there judicial review?
 
Last edited:
I'd really like a new constitution, but I'm afraid of what it might like if we're to rewrite it any time soon. I really hate how ambiguous it and how the law can just change depending on who is on the Supreme Court. I also hate how there is no adequate enforcement mechanism on it.
In theory, that could be done with a Constitutional Convention or Con-Con. That would be something like the committee that composed the original Constitution. But there are a range of serious problems. How would delegates to it be chosen? What constraints would it have? Etc.
 
Back
Top Bottom