The Ways Of The Christian God

[dbz]

I do not think any absolute morality exists.

If someone wants something (enough to pursue it) that you think is wrong of them to pursue, the only way you can ever argue that fact is either to correct some factual belief they have, or to appeal to some other value they have, something else they want, that they already agree supersedes the other thing you deem wrong to want, and thereby correct some fallacious step of logic in their thinking, by which they overlooked that their behavior is contrary to what they actually will prefer when properly informed and soundly reasoning. Either way, you are grounding moral facts in natural facts: the natural facts of what actually exists or how things actually work, or the natural facts of what a person really wants most in life—or more precisely, what a person would really want most, once they are reaching a conclusion about that without fallacy from only true premises. And if you attempt to argue these things, and you are wrong—if the facts of reality aren’t as you insist they are, if that person doesn’t want anything you claim they do, and still wouldn’t no matter what true facts you inform them of, then there simply aren’t any grounds for your claiming they “should” want what you claim they should. And that means you are the one who is wrong about morality.


Theists don’t like this, because it means they will pretty quickly have to start admitting they are wrong about what is and isn’t moral. They can’t have that, so they delusionally go on about our having to obey the God they invented in their own image or else we’ll have no reason to obey any moral code at all. They are lying. And we should stop taking advice from liars. We don’t need God to justify being moral. Because the way the world really works (and doesn’t), and the things we’ll want most out of life once we know what’s really available (and isn’t), fully suffice to justify and motivate a benevolent disposition in all rational persons. Moral facts then become fully discoverable natural facts—not random ideas we stumble across in our heads (as Wielenberg’s system seems to entail), and definitely not whatever our ignorant, delusional peers or ancestors have fantasized (as all modern theism entails).

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Carrier (27 March 2022). "Erik Wielenberg and How Atheists Keep Missing the Point of Grounding Morality". Richard Carrier Blogs.

Sense and Goodness without God, was completed in 2003 and published in 2005. Since then I have collected a long list of corrections (mostly typos, a few clarifications or improved wording, and updates to all the bibliographies) that I would certainly make if I ever do a second edition. [...] The only thing it lacks is more attention to feminism and social justice as an integral part of moral and political philosophy, and the integration of Bayesian epistemology. But there are many minor corrections worth making.

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Typos List for Sense and Goodness without God • Richard Carrier

My first book, Sense and Goodness without God, was completed in 2003 and published in 2005. Since then I have collected a long list of corrections (mostly typos, a few clarifications or improved wording, and updates to all the bibliographies) that I would certainly make if I ever do a second...

www.richardcarrier.info

 

[steve_bank]

There are an endless stream of moral writings not just in the west. Confucianism is prevalnt in Asia.


It is up to the individual to observe and look at human reality, and choose how o act.

From what I see in our bizare midern culture a get many people do not have the capacity to even frame the question. They are conditioned by pop culture on how to behave.

Hugh Hefner was the classic Greek Hedonist. He insulated himself from the world on his estate surroundedby young females. A state of perpetual physical pleasure.

In the old Samurai Bushido culture suicide on command for failure was honorable, moral, and ethical.

I have sarted threads asking on what do ou base your morality and ethins, and have never gotten any atheist resonses.

 

[lostone]

I don't think atheists / non-religious people, as a whole, have any unified position, nor would you expect them to do so. It's a DIY situation. I guess mine is sort of a Golden Rule hedonism.

 

[steve_bank]

I don't think atheists / non-religious people, as a whole, have any unified position, nor would you expect them to do so. It's a DIY situation. I guess mine is sort of a Golden Rule hedonism.

If you have no moraly and ethics to declare then you are by efintion amoral.

We all grow up absorbing a sense of right and wrong from immersion in culture and through family, and that is evaporating. Students are now using AI to cheat. Kids are shooting kids. Risng mental health problems in kids.

Whatever the negates, traditionally religion provided fundamental conditioning in morals and ethics. Now it is coming from music, TV, and movies. Norms of speech and behavior.

A few years ago I was talking with an atheist. As we parted ways he said 'Enjoy being a Hedonist.' I said what makes you thnk I am Hedonist?.

 

[Politesse]

The Christian/Islamic God is a tri-polar nutcase.

Or perhaps more accurately, is a kind of Cambrian Explosion of different Gods derived from the same root stock, that have filled the many thousands of mental niches left vacant by the near extinction of polytheism.

Well that has to have been done...

*looks online*

Yup, here it is. I'm assuming there is error here and there in this. Probably could do a chart just for the middle east / persia.

I like this one better:

World Religions Tree

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't think atheists / non-religious people, as a whole, have any unified position, nor would you expect them to do so. It's a DIY situation. I guess mine is sort of a Golden Rule hedonism.

Eightfold path works. Covers all the bases without any magic.

 

[lostone]

I don't think atheists / non-religious people, as a whole, have any unified position, nor would you expect them to do so. It's a DIY situation. I guess mine is sort of a Golden Rule hedonism.

If you have no moraly and ethics to declare then you are by efintion amoral.

We all grow up absorbing a sense of right and wrong from immersion in culture and through family, and that is evaporating. Students are now using AI to cheat. Kids are shooting kids. Risng mental health problems in kids.

Whatever the negates, traditionally religion provided fundamental conditioning in morals and ethics. Now it is coming from music, TV, and movies. Norms of speech and behavior.

A f

I don't think atheists / non-religious people, as a whole, have any unified position, nor would you expect them to do so. It's a DIY situation. I guess mine is sort of a Golden Rule hedonism.

If you have no moraly and ethics to declare then you are by efintion amoral.

We all grow up absorbing a sense of right and wrong from immersion in culture and through family, and that is evaporating. Students are now using AI to cheat. Kids are shooting kids. Risng mental health problems in kids.

Whatever the negates, traditionally religion provided fundamental conditioning in morals and ethics. Now it is coming from music, TV, and movies. Norms of speech and behavior.

A few years ago I was talking with an atheist. As we parted ways he said 'Enjoy being a Hedonist.' I said what makes you thnk I am Hedonist?.

ew years ago I was talking with an atheist. As we parted ways he said 'Enjoy being a Hedonist.' I said what makes you thnk I am Hedonist?

I don't think atheists / non-religious people, as a whole, have any unified position, nor would you expect them to do so. It's a DIY situation. I guess mine is sort of a Golden Rule hedonism.

If you have no moraly and ethics to declare then you are by efintion amoral.

We all grow up absorbing a sense of right and wrong from immersion in culture and through family, and that is evaporating. Students are now using AI to cheat. Kids are shooting kids. Risng mental health problems in kids.

Whatever the negates, traditionally religion provided fundamental conditioning in morals and ethics. Now it is coming from music, TV, and movies. Norms of speech and behavior.

A few years ago I was talking with an atheist. As we parted ways he said 'Enjoy being a Hedonist.' I said what makes you thnk I am Hedonist?.

Yes, we absorb cultural morals. I said that I am only partially a hedonist. I have many regrets about things I have done. Many peoplr might say I obssess on things that I think that I did wrong.

 

[steve_bank]

In Chinese traditions physical and health is a balance of opposing forces. Too much in any direction leads to an unhealthy imbalance. Foods, traditional medicines, and behaviors are classified as yin and yang. In one aspect yin is feminine and passive, yang is masculine and aggressive.

Too much yin or yang of anything and one adds the opposite to bring back a balance. A practical cultural psychology. No gods needed. Just observation.

Today I'd say modern mediine and psychology would say mental and physical health is a balance of diet, exercise, attitude, and actions. A unified integrated whole. That is how I interpret Buddhism, a psychology.

Sex is healthy. Excessive dependence on sex for a sense of well being is not. Sex is part of an integrated whole.


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[lostone]

Much like the ancient Egyptian definition of Ma'at. Balance.

In Chinese traditions physical and health is a balance of opposing forces. Too much in any direction leads to an unhealthy imbalance. Foods, traditional medicines, and behaviors are classified as yin and yang. In one aspect yin is feminine and passive, yang is masculine and aggressive.

Too much yin or yang of anything and one adds the opposite to bring back a balance. A practical cultural psychology. No gods needed. Just observation.

Today I'd say modern mediine and psychology would say mental and physical health is a balance of diet, exercise, attitude, and actions. A unified integrated whole. That is how I interpret Buddhism, a psychology.

Sex is healthy. Excessive dependence on sex for a sense of well being is not. Sex is part of an integrated whole.


I

 

[dbz]

Much like the ancient Egyptian definition of Ma'at. Balance.

Whereas the first-god of Christianity is off balance and bringing about the END of Earth_1.1 any day now! Even if the faithful bring the END themselves, they are doing the will of first-god.