The World in 2030

[dystopian]

]I'm not a "Russia lover" , but I respect them. Does anyone seriously respect Holland or your masters in the USA these days?

Yes; anyone who values any of the following things has plenty of reason to respect us:

• Civil liberties - You won't find a country with more of them than us; first to legalize gay marriage, decriminalize drugs, and legalize euthanasia; among other things.
• Internet Freedom - 2nd country in the world to enshrine net neutrality in law.
• Freedom of the Press - Ranked 2nd out of 180 countries.
• International law & order - International capital of justice; international law & order part of the country's constitutional mandate.
• Quality of living - Ranked 3rd in the world.
• Per capita income - Among the highest in the world.
• Education - Ranked 8th in the world.
• Happiness - Ranked 4th in the world.
• Productivity - Ranked 5th in the world.

Do I need to go on? All of the above are good solid reasons to respect a country. Needless to say, Russia does horrible on every count, trailing far far behind us while we're pretty much even with those above us in any of these rankings. The US, while generally doing poorer than us on these counts, does still rank among the top of the world too, and so is certainly more deserving of respect than Russia. But I forget; you don't determine what countries to respect by how well they provide for their citizens or anything so objective; it's all about whether or not RT says they're to be respected.

As for calling the USA our masters; while I realize you want to think of the US as a global hegemon with puppets everywhere, the fact is we constantly get our "masters" angry at us by doing the exact opposite of what they want, which would mean that if they're our 'masters', they're pretty piss-fucking poor at it. What you think of as a 'master-puppet' relationship, the rest of us recognize as a mutually beneficial relationship and alignment of interests between two (and more) countries with similar histories and philosophies.

 

[dystopian]

True, but Russia saved their sorry homosexual asses from Hitler, don't forget that.

Surely you mean Canada. We were liberated by Canada, not Russia. History fail?

And what do you know about russian drug policy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Drug_Control_Service_of_Russia

"The Criticism of this law enforcement organization is related to legal collisions. For example, in 2004, the use of analgesic medication ketamine has been explicitly forbidden for use in veterinary clinics after it has been qualified as a drug of abuse. Veterinarians who sought to alleviate the suffering of animals, deliberately went to the violation of the law - as a result of a conflict between the legal and moral implications. The most "sensational" case was the process of Alexandra Duque. Criticism is also drawn by the Federal Drug Control Service supposedly rigging results of substance inspections (for example, identifying UR-144 as JWH-018 and finding drugs that were never there), improper scheduling (such as qualifying Modafinil as a cocaine substitute) and using very vague and unspecific drug analog laws."

http://en.rylkov-fond.org/blog/drug-policy-and-russia/drug-policy-in-russia/moscow-protest/

"Joining protestors in more than 80 cities around the world demanding drug policy reforms, they attacked what they said was their country’s “cruel and inhuman” treatment of drug users. Describing a litany of rights abuses against drug users, including torture and beatings by police and prison warders, they said Russian authorities viewed imprisonment as a “cure for drug dependency”."


"Russia takes a hard-line approach to drug use, implementing repressive drugs legislation, including lengthy jail terms for possession of even tiny amounts of hard drugs.

Drug users say they are also targeted by police: official figures show that one in six of the Russian prison population is a drug user and, according to other surveys, just under 30 percent of drug users have been arrested at some point since they started using drugs.

They say they also regularly have confessions extracted from them or are coerced into helping officers as they go into withdrawal in detention – a charge police deny.

There is a complete lack of relevant medical services for drug users in temporary holding facilities and pre-trial detention centres and even painkillers are rarely given to addicts going into withdrawal.

Drug users in prison face particular hardship. Conditions for all prisoners are poor with hygiene often bad, cells massively overcrowded and brutality and disease rife. But drug users are especially vulnerable."



Want to know about Russia's drug policy? Just ask the Russians who've been victimized by it.

 

[dystopian]

Russia has been doing this lately,

They've been doing it for as long as I can remember. You want proof, you go dig around through the hundreds of thousands of articles that pop up when I try to google it. Cause I sure as shit am not going to spend my afternoon digging through archives in order to bypass all the *current* articles in order to find articles about what everyone in Europe knows Russia has been doing for years. It's only like, every fucking year, we hear about them doing it to someone.

Here's something recent that predates Crimea: http://www.nltimes.nl/2013/12/11/russia-dutch-cheese-ban-set-dec-19/

This is what they've done to many different European countries for decades. When something happens they don't like, you can bet good money on them announcing temporary import restrictions under the false guise of of safety inspections. The timing is like clockwork every damned time; and it has nothing to do with actual food safety. Usually, these sanctions last for a short time and are nothing more than an obvious attempt to intimidate other countries...

basically the Russians are saying: "Nice food industry you have here, be a shame if something were to happen to it."

Usually, we just ignore them; first of all because we know they're just blowing hot hair, and secondly because Russia's scare tactics stopped impressing us the day the wall fell.

 

[Metaphor]

Two things to respect about the Netherlands over Russia is The Netherland's half-way to not-insane drug policy and its not treating homosexuals like diseased animals.

True, but Russia saved their sorry homosexual asses from Hitler, don't forget that.
And what do you know about russian drug policy?

Not much, but I doubt it's as progressive as The Netherlands.

 

[barbos]

True, but Russia saved their sorry homosexual asses from Hitler, don't forget that.
And what do you know about russian drug policy?

Not much, but I doubt it's as progressive as The Netherlands.

So it is freedom to smoke pot, versus freedom from Hitler?

 

[Metaphor]

Not much, but I doubt it's as progressive as The Netherlands.

So it is freedom to smoke pot, versus freedom from Hitler?

No.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Simply not true. I'm talking about he value of the dollar relative to other currencies, not about the specific inflation rate in this country. So this seems to be another area that you don't understand. But even in terms of domestic inflation the dollar has lost considerable value since 2000.

The US dollar was 1.61 to the Pound in 2000. It is 1.63 today.

Last I checked, military spending was a spending item not a revenue source. Yes, we will have to cut military spending but we will also have to cut other areas as well. If you eliminated military spending all together, you still wouldn't be able to balance the budget very often.

It'd get you close, and with the tax hike, you'd be very close. Keep in mind that non-military discretionary spending increases have been rather flat under Obama.

 

[thief of fire]

]I'm not a "Russia lover" , but I respect them. Does anyone seriously respect Holland or your masters in the USA these days?

Yes; anyone who values any of the following things has plenty of reason to respect us:

Oh I have a lot of respect for previous Dutch generations, even very recently. I just don't think you can take credit and think you are on the same level. Which is clearly implied by your patronising.
Why should "you" be respected for what others laid the groundwork for and did?
You seemed to miss this point somehow.
Russia has endured an awful century and has inherited the things you whine about, but this has toughened them up and they are heading in the right direction. These things don't just change overnight.

]

 

[lpetrich]

I may not be around to see it, but my crystal ball tells me what the world will be like sixteen years from now, and it suggests some very big changes.

I'm not willing to speculate about most of them, except that I would not lose much sleep about the US dollar as long as the US continues to have a First-World economy.

The British monarchy will also fall as will the monarchies of the low countries and Spain.

I find this subject most interesting. Let's see what monarchies there are.

The full-sized nations:
Belgium
Denmark
Netherlands
Norway
Spain
Sweden
United Kingdom

The microstates:
Andorra
Liechtenstein
Luxembourg
Monaco
Vatican City

I wouldn't call Vatican City a monarchy but an oligarchic republic, since the Pope is elected and since neither he nor his electors have family connections.

Andorra is a weird one. Its joint sovereigns are the President of France and the bishop of the nearby town of La Seu d'Urgell in Spain. The President of France is the successor of the count of Foix, in southern France. So it's a jointly-administered territory.

I'm not going to speculate about the prospects of Europe's microstates, like whether they can avoid being annexed by their neighbors.


Turning to the full-sized nations, all their monarchs are ceremonial monarchs. It seems like they will continue in their positions as long as the monarchs avoid getting on the wrong side of major political upheavals, the sort of thing that had doomed many of their colleagues elsewhere in Europe.

Here's a nice article on European monarchy: After Spain’s King Juan Carlos quits, should Europe’s monarchies follow? - The Washington Post

 

[dystopian]

Oh I have a lot of respect for previous Dutch generations, even very recently. I just don't think you can take credit and think you are on the same level.

Given that I'm part of the (quite current, I assure you) generation that accomplished many of these things; I find it odd that you'd claim to respect *previous* generations but not the current one. Do you even have any specific reason to not respect the current generation here? Do you even know the first thing about the subject? I suspect you don't, but are just railing against it because I happen to be Dutch and because I'm one of the more vocal critics of you and your zealously pro-russian friends. Had I been any other nationality, western or not, you'd no doubt have found reason to rail against said nationality instead.

Why should "you" be respected for what others laid the groundwork for and did?

Many of the things I pointed out happened within and thanks to my generation; not the previous ones. I'd tell you you were welcome, but you're not currently enjoying our accomplishments.

Russia has endured an awful century and has inherited the things you whine about, but this has toughened them up and they are heading in the right direction.

No, it's really not. The idea that hardship 'thoughens' people up in a positive manner isn't taken seriously by any psychologist or historian; something we very much see reflected in Russia's mortality crisis. Russia has one of the highest suicide rates in the world; more than a million Russians have killed themselves since the end of the Soviet Union. Even young people are killing themselves in droves, as the teen suicide rate in Russia is *three* times the world average. Any country with that high of a level of suicide can't possibly be claimed to have 'toughened up'. It suggests that instead of toughening up; Russians no longer see any hope for the future: they've replaced one brutal totalitarian regime for another, with the main difference being that at least in the old one, the poor were theoretically supposed to all be equal to everyone else.

Plus, any country like Russia, taking active and recent steps to oppress large sections of their own population (for example, the LGBT community), is NOT heading in the right direction; but rather the opposite direction.

 

[dystopian]

The microstates:
Andorra
Liechtenstein
Luxembourg
Monaco
Vatican City

Derail: Luxembourg isn't actually a microstate. It's often included in the list because it *is* pretty tiny, however it utterly dwarves all other microstates. There's no firm definition of what the cut-off point is, but microstates are generally considered to have both a tiny population and tiny land area. Luxembourg's population is 550.000, which is more than Iceland, and vastly more than the next most populous microstate of Andorra at 85.000. Andorra is also the biggest European microstate at 468 square kilometers, compared to Luxembourg's 2,586 square kilometers.

That concludes another one of Dystopian's pet-peeve derails.

 

[Togo]

The emerging paradigm is that of "gold trade settlement." That is not a gold standard, however, if gold trade settlement turns out not to be viable, it could lead to a gold standard. Already China has currency swap agreements with nearly thirty countries and other countries that do not include China are also reaching such agreements. These agreements allow countries to settle their foreign exchange accounts with something other than dollars and ultimately, with gold.

Where do you get this stuff? Yes, people are settling trades with something other than dollars, and yes it's getting more popular. They are in no way moving towards settlement in gold though. You never, ever, if you can possibly help it, settle in gold. There isn't enough of it, your settlee can't reliably get hold of it, it's got vast operational risks associated with even confirming it's existence, and it's subject to massive fraud. The most recent crisis planning I did with a bank that has substantial gold reserves and gold trading was to settle everything in high-cost metals - palladium and the like, and to actively avoid trading or settling in gold.

Meanwhile, the US finances are so bad that we will either have to default on our debts or create massive inflation to pay the debt in cheaper dollars. Either alternative would bring down the dollar if it doesn't fall even before that.

Inflation then. It has fewer consequences than default, default would cause inflation anyway, and we're likely to see a policy of pursuing higher inflation in the next few years anyway. There's no reason for a sudden or dramatic collapse though.

This means that Europe would have to seek better relations with Russia since it won't be able to count on the US.

Eh? Why would we need better relations with Russia? Against a sudden invasion the US wouldn't be around much anyway. Against a longer war, Russia would lose anyway. Against anything that threatened Western Europe, the Western states would quite happily nuke the eastern ones, destroying any Russians that tried to reach Germany. Europe already seeks relationships with Russia, but I can't see it doing more so just because the Us weren't around.

The EU might continue to exist but it is likely to join Russia and the central asian republics in the Eurasian trade zone either as a unit or as individual members.

No, they wouldn't. The two groups have nothing in common, the Eurasian zone contains remarkably few people aside from Russia, and isn't universally popular with it's existing members. There's simply no benefit in doing so.

In Asia, Japan will rebuild its' Navy and develop nuclear weapons.

Probably in the long term - but within 16 years?

It will also seek close association with Russia to gain a potential ally against China.

India is much more likely.

North and South Korea will re-unite under pressure from China.

??? Why would China want to unite its puppet, albeit an unstable one, with a much larger population that is one of it's most successful local trade rivals?

And Taiwan will become a part of China, probably through peaceful negotiations.

Eh? Why?

The British monarchy will also fall as will the monarchies of the low countries and Spain. So will the Pope. The office of Pope might survive but the power will not. The Catholic Church will devolve into separate national churches similar to the Orthodox churches. The British monarchy will fall due to the pedophilia scandal currently pervading Britian (and almost entirely ignored by the US media) and due to the unpopularity of Prince Charles. Holland and Belgium have similar problems (as does the US, btw, but the media is keeping a lid on it).

Really not. You can't topple anything with a scandal that no one knows about, and the closest I've heard to your allegations were the old Satanic Panic scares, which got discredited. You get the occasional wacko in far away places like Nebraska that will repeat old news as if it were new, but they're on a par with people claiming that the family are lizard-monsters from space. (cf Icke)

The Papacy, at least in its present form, will fall for the same reason. It is totally engulfed in pedophilia all the way up to the highest levels. But in addition, the Vatican bank, like most Western banks, is insolvent.

Wait, most western banks are what? By what reckoning? Bear in mind that I have access to the private and confidential data of over 100 banks, so I'd kinda like some specifics here.

In the US, the collapse of the dollar would reduce the US standard of living to at least second world standards and could lead to a Soviet-style totalitarian dictatorship as the government grabs more power in order to "solve" the economic crisis in a pattern described by F.A Hayek in his Road to Serfdom.

Is this the US version of those 'The sky is falling in, so you must invest in gold!' ads? The ones that claim that there will be rioting in the streets and food shortages, so obviously you must make sure you have gold to your name registered in an institution someplace?

 

[boneyard bill]

To dystopian:

I'm not going to bother with the first half of your post since it's really just a re-hash of stuff we've already discussed.

but in the US much of this is revealed in a book called The Franklin Cover-Up by John DeCamp. It is available on-line. The book is actually called: The Franklin Cover-up: Child Abuse, Satanism, and Murder in Nebraska.

How exactly a book about Child Abuse, Satanism, and Murder IN FUCKING NEBRASKA tells you anything about Europe is beyond me. Incidentally, the allegations in the book have been refuted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankli...ng_allegations

DeCamp's book isn't much about the allegations. It's about how the police, the judiciary, and the FBI all worked to railroad Alisha Owen and protect the people who were named by the witnesses which included the chief of police and the publisher of the World Herald. DeCamp named names and challenged these people to sue him for libel or slander. None did. The Wikipedia article and its links only describe the results of the grand jury investigation and the trial. They do not address the questions of judicial and prosecutorial misconduct.

Years later an investigative journalist named Nick Bryant spent years investigating this and wrote a book called, The Franklin Scandal. In it he pretty much verifies the story that DeCamp told but adds a great deal more detail.

Among the sidebars to this scandal are that the chief investigator for Nebraska Senate, Gary Caridori, was killed, along with his 8-year-old son, when the plane he was flying blew up over Aurora, Illinois, as he was returning from Chicago. Caridori had called Sen. Schmidt, Chairman of the investigating committee and informed him that he had conclusive evidence. Rusty Nelson, a photographer who had worked the pedophile ring, later admitted that he had given Caridori photos of prominent individuals engaged in child pornography. His job was to take the photos for use as blackmail. Caridori'e brief case was not found at the crash site nor were any pornographic photos.

Prior to the trial, Alisha Owen's 17-year-old brother died a violent death. So did Troy Boners' brother, Shawn even though Boner had agreed to recant. A few years later, Boner himself checked in a hospital, was supposedly given a sedative, and never woke up. So you have 5 violent or mysterious deaths surrounding the investigator and four witnesses in this case. The prosecution couldn't possibly have prevailed had Gary Caridori been allowed to take the stand and defend himself against the "carefully crafted hoax." In fact, it took judicial misconduct to gain the conviction that they did get.

After Alica Owen's conviction, the charges against Paul Bonacci were dropped as John DeCamp predicted they would be. Bonacci was the one member of the group who tie the whole ring to Washington, D.C.

So forget about routine reports in the newspaper that didn't investigate anything and just regurgitated what was doled out. What about the evidence?


The important point here isn't simply child abuse. It is the conduct of the authorities who impeded the Senate investigation at every possible point and in ANY possible way. It isn't just about a pedophile ring. It is about pedophile rings that are aided and protected by the police, judges, the media, the FBI, and the CIA.

Here is some of Paul Bonacci's testimony that was taped by Gary Caridori:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KgkiruMB4g

The people who interviewed Bonacci concluded that the place he described where this snuff porno film was produced could be Bohemian Grove, but Bonacci didn't know anything about such a place. But after they flew him to Sacramento, he was able to direct them to the Bohemian Grove from his own memory. Bohemian Grove is an elite camp owned by the Bohemian Club in San Francisco. Only the richest and most powerful men in the world are allowed to attend their festivities.

Bonacci also testified to attending "after" parties in D.C. In these parties people who stayed after the formal party were offered drugs and boys or girls for sex. This is where Rusty Nelson took his pictures. Bonaaci was just a boy so he didn't know who most of the people were, but he claims to have witnessed then-V.P. George H. W. Bush have oral sex with underage boys on two occasions. He also claimed to have been given a tour of non-public areas of the White House and is reported to have accurately drawn the floor plan.

Much more of Bonacci's testimony is on the web and so is Alisha Owen and Troy Boner. I'm not sure about Danny King, the fourth witness.

Of course, not that sane people would believe a blatant hoax involving child sex rings among senators dashed with a thick layer of SATANISM in the first place.

I agree. It took me along time to accept that. But if you want to know more, you will do a search on Colonel Michael Aquino. Aquino is head of the Temple of Set, a Satanic church, and was the head of all Satanist chaplains in the US Army. (Yes, Satanists have chaplain's now). He was involved in the Army's mind control programs. Bonacci identified him as his "handler." Bonacci had been subject to mind control at Offut Air Force Base in Omaha. Aquino had been indicted for child abuse at the Presidio of San Francisco, but higher ups ordered the investigation to be terminated due to "national security."

Anthony LaVey, son of Anton LaVey and now a Christian minister, claims that George H.W. Bush was a member of the Council of Thirteen which is the governing body of the Church of Satan.

You could also look up Ted Gundersen and his story of the McDonald case. There's really a whole lot more out there involving either Satanism in government or child trafficking. And there's lots and lots of videos by alleged mind-control victims. Do I believe them all? No. Some seem to have more credibility than others. I don't believe any of the alleged "Satanists" who don't admit to either having killed someone ritualistically or at least to have attended such rituals, for example. And I have less confidence in someone who has something to benefit from this, such as having written a book. The difficulty isn't in finding out that these things are going on. The difficulty is in figuring out why they are being aided and abetted by governments at all levels.

Is it as bad in the UK? The Jimmy Savile scandal seems to suggest that the problem is as serious there, but the larger coverage by the media and the apparent willingness of the police, at least at some levels, suggests that it isn't as bad. Kenneth Clark, one of Cameron's cabinet ministers was ousted recently following pedophile accusations. One of the Queen's long-term advisers was recently indicted for child abuse. And, of course, Savile himself had very close ties to the Royal Family, but that has not stopped the investigation.

Certainly, there's evidence of Child trafficking rings in the Netherlands. So fucking what, those are everywhere.

But are they protected by the authorities? That is the real scandal. Whether or not Prince Bernhard was involved in sexual abuse of children is less an issue than the possibility that child trafficking rings are being protected by the authorities and by the media.

Whether there is hard evidence pointing to the royal family, I'm not sure. You're not sure; but sure enough that you previously stated it as fact. For the record, no, there is no hard evidence for it. In fact, there isn't even any soft evidence either.

Maybe somewhere in between:

This is a long video, but the relevant part begins about the 5 minute mark and lasts about 15 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfKRkPXi8oA



Because of her accent I couldn't make out a lot of what she said, but she clearly claimed that she was abused as a child by Prince Bernhard and a Roman Catholic Cardinal whose name I couldn't understand. Is she telling the truth? That would require more investigation.

If Prince Bernhard were alive, it would be his word against hers. That certainly wouldn't warrant a conviction, but it would warrant an investigation.

Certainly, many accusations have been directed at Prince Bernhard, but he is dead now. There are many accusations against Prince Bernhard, yes. None of them, however, have anything whatsofucking ever to do with pedophilia.

I hope you will admit now that the above statement is simply wrong.

 

[bongomaniac]

Is it as bad in the UK? The Jimmy Savile scandal seems to suggest that the problem is as serious there, but the larger coverage by the media and the apparent willingness of the police, at least at some levels, suggests that it isn't as bad. Kenneth Clark, one of Cameron's cabinet ministers was ousted recently following pedophile accusations. One of the Queen's long-term advisers was recently indicted for child abuse. And, of course, Savile himself had very close ties to the Royal Family, but that has not stopped the investigation.

It should be acknowledged that the single accusation against Kenneth Clarke was disproven well before he retired, with honour, from the cabinet.

 

[dystopian]

To dystopian:

I'm not going to bother with the first half of your post since it's really just a re-hash of stuff we've already discussed.

Translation: I'm not going to address your arguments that refute my arguments against your original arguments because I really don't like that you didn't just roll over and agreed with me and I don't want to have to go through that pain again.

DeCamp's book isn't much about the allegations. It's about how the police, the judiciary, and the FBI all worked to railroad Alisha Owen and protect the people who were named by the witnesses which included the chief of police and the publisher of the World Herald.

No, you don't get it. The *entire* book has been pretty much refuted. It's thrash. That *includes* the allegations you just listed.

DeCamp named names and challenged these people to sue him for libel or slander. None did.

And in what ridiculous kind of world does that prove anything? Most people are not particularly inclined to go to all the effort and trouble of starting a court case against someone who is literally crazy. If someone accused *me* of being part of a SATANIC child-rape/murder ring, I'd ignore them as the nutcase they obviously are. This is of course also what a politician or other public figure would do, especially when the person making the claims isn't widely taken seriously. First order of business for such people is *always* to ignore it and hope it goes away. Usually it does. It did.

Years later an investigative journalist named Nick Bryant spent years investigating this and wrote a book called, The Franklin Scandal. In it he pretty much verifies the story that DeCamp told but adds a great deal more detail.

No, he didn't. You're confusing 'wild conspiracy theory' for 'verified the story'.

So forget about routine reports in the newspaper that didn't investigate anything and just regurgitated what was doled out. What about the evidence?

What evidence? Oh... you mean those things you posted were "evidence" instead of a lack thereof? Because it sure looked like any other conspiracy nut's line of 'evidence' to me. Point to a bunch of things that happened, flail your arms about wildly, and shout something along the lines of: "SEE!? DON'T YOU SEE THE PATTERNS MAN! THE PROOF IS RIGHT THERE!"

Yeah, no thanks.

But if you want to know more,

I don't. I've learned long ago not to waste my time indulging crazy conspiracy theorists by digging through what they think is the 'path that will lead me to the truth'; inevitably I find that the 'evidence' isn't actually evidence, and yet no amount of facts or logic will dissuade the conspiracy nut.

Aquino is head of the Temple of Set, a Satanic church, and was the head of all Satanist chaplains in the US Army. (Yes, Satanists have chaplain's now). He was involved in the Army's mind control programs. Bonacci identified him as his "handler." Bonacci had been subject to mind control at Offut Air Force Base in Omaha. Aquino had been indicted for child abuse at the Presidio of San Francisco, but higher ups ordered the investigation to be terminated due to "national security."

Seriously, stop embarassing yourself.

Anthony LaVey, son of Anton LaVey and now a Christian minister, claims that George H.W. Bush was a member of the Council of Thirteen which is the governing body of the Church of Satan.

Never mind. You're the gift that keeps giving.

Maybe somewhere in between:

This is a long video, but the relevant part begins about the 5 minute mark and lasts about 15 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfKRkPXi8oA

I don't normally do this, but just this once I actually looked at a conspiracy video. The "relevant" portion is typical of these type of 'satanic cult' stories. Sometimes people experience bad things in their childhood, and the memories get all tangled up and become much worse; the satanic/ritual cult stuff gets attached to it but upon actual investigation none of that actually happened. Often, celebrities become part of the internal narrative too; but of course are never actually involved. The reason this happens is because people who experience childhood abuse have need of a mental/emotional defense mechanism in order to cope. Paradoxically, one such possible defense mechanism involves exeggarating the abuse; rather than 'just' having been raped, the victim was raped by a *satanic cult* with vast amounts of power and influence, thus explaining why nobody came to their aid. It also turns the victimizer into part of a monstrous cabal; rather than just having been "generically" abused by an uncle, they were abused by a cult that raped hundreds or even thousands of kids, were cannibals, and murdered babies before drinking their blood. All of which firmly cements what happened to the victim as the purest kind of 'evil'.

Add to that what is often a christian background, and it's not hard to see how regular abuse can be turned into a satanic rape/murder ring involving world leaders in the victim's mind. Not surprisingly, this sort of thing hasn't been taken seriously by psychologists and law enforcement for decades now. Not because there's an actual conspiracy of powerful people controlling them, but because the actual evidence isn't there and we have a pretty good model of how a victim's mind can twist what really happened into something like Satanic ritual abuse.

Here's a relevant blurb on the subject from wikipedia:

"The evidence for SRA (satanic ritual abuse) was primarily in the form of testimonies from children who made allegations of SRA, and adults who claim to remember abuse during childhood, that may have been forgotten and recovered during therapy. With both children and adults, no corroborating evidence has been found for anything except pseudosatanism in which the satanic and ritual aspects were secondary to and used as a cover for sexual abuse. Despite this lack of objective evidence, and aided by the competing definitions of what SRA actually was, proponents claimed SRA was a real phenomenon throughout the peak and during the decline of the moral panic. Despite allegations appearing in the United States, Holland, Sweden, New Zealand and Australia, no material evidence has been found to corroborate allegations of organized cult-based abuse that practices human sacrifice and cannibalism. Though trauma specialists frequently claimed the allegations made by children and adults were the same, in reality the statements made by adults were more elaborate, severe, and featured more bizarre abuse. In 95% of the adults' cases, the memories of the abuse were recovered during psychotherapy."

You might want to look into the severely questionable nature of memories recovered during psychotherapy, and the satanic cult scare in general.

You might want to check out: Return of the Furies: An Investigation Into Recovered Memory Therapy or Evil Incarnate: Rumors of Demonic Conspiracy and Ritual Abuse in History or any number of other works.

If Prince Bernhard were alive, it would be his word against hers. That certainly wouldn't warrant a conviction, but it would warrant an investigation.

No, it wouldn't.

I hope you will admit now that the above statement is simply wrong.

Fine, one obscure accusation completely lacking in any credibility exists. I'll file it away alongside the accusations that claim Bernhard was a reptilian, affiliated with the secret nazi civilization that fled to hollow earth, and the ones where he was at the head of the illuminati.

 

[thief of fire]

Russia has been doing this lately,

They've been doing it for as long as I can remember. You want proof, you go dig around through the hundreds of thousands of articles that pop up when I try to google it. Cause I sure as shit am not going to spend my afternoon digging through archives in order to bypass all the *current* articles in order to find articles about what everyone in Europe knows Russia has been doing for years. It's only like, every fucking year, we hear about them doing it to someone.

So your saying they do it maybe once a year?
That is hardly "constant".

 

[dystopian]

They've been doing it for as long as I can remember. You want proof, you go dig around through the hundreds of thousands of articles that pop up when I try to google it. Cause I sure as shit am not going to spend my afternoon digging through archives in order to bypass all the *current* articles in order to find articles about what everyone in Europe knows Russia has been doing for years. It's only like, every fucking year, we hear about them doing it to someone.

So your saying they do it maybe once a year?
That is hardly "constant".

A country that imposes sanctions on its neighbors every year is most certainly doing it constantly by the standards of such things. Of course, failing any other real options, you descend into getting caught up in semantics in order to defend your beloved mother Russia from people saying mean words about them. You'd probably use the same argument even if they were doing it every month, week, day, or even hour; saying that it isn't "constantly". Second of all, I did not say they did it once a year; I said that we hear about them doing it pretty much every year: which really shouldn't happen if we were dealing with an honest and fair country that just wants to engage in proper free trade with us.

Which was what this line of argument was all about. But oh no, we don't get to look at what Russia's done in the past and say that we don't want have a right to be skeptical of Russia's commitment to free trade. The pro-russians are here to tell us that since Russia isn't 'doing it 24/7', we don't get to have a say.