These poor delusional women don't know they need feminism

[Nexus]

Feminism is by definition advocating of social, political, and all other rights of women to be equal to men.

Have you already forgotten this quote.

Words mean what people (both speaking and hearing) understand them to mean, and regardless of the original intent of whoever first used the word, today it is quite ambiguous.

Repeating what you think the definition of the word is doesn't change the current colloquial use.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Feminism is not one thing or one philosophy, so you can't make an argument about feminism in a general sense, you have to be more specific.

Some feminists love equal rights, some don't.

That's the problem with feminism - it is not one thing or philosophy. A person cannot be in favor of it or against it because the term encompasses contradictory meanings.

And I would say the contradictory meanings are intentional, so that a person holding the more noxious female supremacist views can accuse any opponent of opposing the more egalitarian views of other so-called feminists.

 

[Nexus]

That's the problem with feminism - it is not one thing or philosophy. A person cannot be in favor of it or against it because the term encompasses contradictory meanings.

And I would say the contradictory meanings are intentional, so that a person holding the more noxious female supremacist views can accuse any opponent of opposing the more egalitarian views of other so-called feminists.

That's a great insight. It's like they have a pre-emptive strawman.

 

[ksen]

the more noxious female supremacist views

wat?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat, or a prostitute.
― Rebecca West, Young Rebecca: Writings, 1911-1917

 

[The Paul]

You've got a real talent for treating OPs with all the seriousness they deserve, and no more seriousness than that.

 

[The Paul]

Feminism is frequently misrepresented. It is simply the advocating of social, political, and all other rights of women to be equal to men. There may be some radicals who advocate something different but the actual definition is unambiguous.

Words mean what people (both speaking and hearing) understand them to mean, and regardless of the original intent of whoever first used the word, today it is quite ambiguous.

Well sure. In the same sense that "atheist" means someone who is angry at God and wants to deny he exists so that they can lead a sinful life, feminism means hating men and wanting to elevate women to a superior position above men in society.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Have you already forgotten this quote.

Words mean what people (both speaking and hearing) understand them to mean, and regardless of the original intent of whoever first used the word, today it is quite ambiguous.

Repeating what you think the definition of the word is doesn't change the current colloquial use.

The definition of feminism in the dictionary is very clear and is thus defined in the English language. Some didn't like the idea of women having equal rights, so tried to reinvent other meanings. Some even think a feminist is seeking female superiority which of course is incorrect. If words only meant what people understand them to mean we would have a totally dysfunctional confused society speaking words that no longer have clear meanings. In fact we could simply grunt and shriek like our ancestors, since specific words and phrases would no longer have meaning. This is why we have dictionaries

 

[Arctish]

I think the RadFems (or politically incorrect but apt term "feminazis") have poisoned the term "feminist". That goes both for radical feminists of 70s and 80s such as Dworkin, MacKinnon or Brownmiller as well as more contemporary incarnations like Jessica Valenti or Gail Dines.

Well I think MRA's or to use the politically incorrect term "little whining shitcocks that can't get laid without Rohypnol" should shut the fuck up.

Guys like Elliot Rodgers become Men's Rights Activists because victim mentality is a personality disorder and that's how it manifests.

 

[Arctish]

Feminism is not one thing or one philosophy, so you can't make an argument about feminism in a general sense, you have to be more specific.

Some feminists love equal rights, some don't.

I think the RadFems (or politically incorrect but apt term "feminazis") have poisoned the term "feminist". That goes both for radical feminists of 70s and 80s such as Dworkin, MacKinnon or Brownmiller as well as more contemporary incarnations like Jessica Valenti or Gail Dines.

Dworkin didn't poison the term. She stood for gender equality. She also stood for respecting gay men and women just as much straights. She was despised by the men who opposed her because

1) she was upsetting the social dynamic that gave them an inordinate amount of power,
2) she worked hard to take away their manly privilege to beat women and gays, and
3) she was deliberately un-lady like and obnoxious about it.

You really should read her essays and try to comprehend the argument she makes before criticizing her or her work. The same goes for Valenti. I've seen you post a quote mine from one of her articles in order to accuse her of taking a stance she flatly stated was not her stance in the very same article. As for the other three, well, I doubt you ever read anything they wrote either unless it was another quote mine some MRA hack dug up and posted.

 

[Emily Lake]

Tom Sawyer is our local person who's really good at irony. You'll learn to rep him often.

That may be unfortunate; I really suck at picking up on irony. Unless it's spelled out in big flashing letters with signs at eye-level. And even then I may miss it. The only thing I'm worse at picking up on is sarcasm .

 

[Emily Lake]

The definition of feminism in the dictionary is very clear and is thus defined in the English language. Some didn't like the idea of women having equal rights, so tried to reinvent other meanings. Some even think a feminist is seeking female superiority which of course is incorrect. If words only meant what people understand them to mean we would have a totally dysfunctional confused society speaking words that no longer have clear meanings. In fact we could simply grunt and shriek like our ancestors, since specific words and phrases would no longer have meaning. This is why we have dictionaries

Dictionaries never seem to include connotations. They include the literal definition, but not the implied meaning and the associated import of the word. Dictionaries don't include the emotional reaction and the entire weight of social discourse that is carried by a term.

For example: The dictionary will give you a very clinical and exact definition for the term "abortion" but will leave out all of the meaning and conflict, the debate and social commentary, the implied argument and emotion that accompanies the word.

There is more to language than dictionaries would have one believe .

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Have you already forgotten this quote.Repeating what you think the definition of the word is doesn't change the current colloquial use.

The definition of feminism in the dictionary is very clear and is thus defined in the English language. Some didn't like the idea of women having equal rights, so tried to reinvent other meanings. Some even think a feminist is seeking female superiority which of course is incorrect. If words only meant what people understand them to mean we would have a totally dysfunctional confused society speaking words that no longer have clear meanings. In fact we could simply grunt and shriek like our ancestors, since specific words and phrases would no longer have meaning. This is why we have dictionaries

Then the feminists (as defined in your post) should confront the radicals who are using the term to mean something other than equal rights. It isn't my job to decide which person using the term is using it correctly. NAFALT doesn't cut it.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

The definition of feminism in the dictionary is very clear and is thus defined in the English language. Some didn't like the idea of women having equal rights, so tried to reinvent other meanings. Some even think a feminist is seeking female superiority which of course is incorrect. If words only meant what people understand them to mean we would have a totally dysfunctional confused society speaking words that no longer have clear meanings. In fact we could simply grunt and shriek like our ancestors, since specific words and phrases would no longer have meaning. This is why we have dictionaries

Then the feminists (as defined in your post) should confront the radicals who are using the term to mean something other than equal rights. It isn't my job to decide which person using the term is using it correctly. NAFALT doesn't cut it.

Do you think there are no confrontations among feminists? And as for what is and is not your job, you already have determined what is the correct meaning for you, otherwise you would not have an opinion on the subject

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Then the feminists (as defined in your post) should confront the radicals who are using the term to mean something other than equal rights. It isn't my job to decide which person using the term is using it correctly. NAFALT doesn't cut it.

Do you think there are no confrontations among feminists? And as for what is and is not your job, you already have determined what is the correct meaning for you, otherwise you would not have an opinion on the subject

I gave my opinion on what the term means in post #22 where I wrote that it has no meaning because it encompasses contradictory meanings.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Do you think there are no confrontations among feminists? And as for what is and is not your job, you already have determined what is the correct meaning for you, otherwise you would not have an opinion on the subject

I gave my opinion on what the term means in post #22 where I wrote that it has no meaning because it encompasses contradictory meanings.

and that is your understanding, your belif, your meaning.

And you didn't answer the first question.

 

[Emily Lake]

My impression is that Jason Harvestdancer expressed his opinion that feminism has no definable meaning because it has multiple possible and valid meanings in colloquial use which are sometimes contradictory. He responded to Jolly Penguin by saying that Jolly Penguin's feminists (by the definition that JP gave) should take action to bring those not using that definition into line so that there's one coherent definition.

I could be wrong in my interpretation of events.

I agree that colloquially there are multiple valid and conflicting meanings of the term. I am willing to say that I desire the definition to be one that does not extend beyond the realm of treatment under the law.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Other than it being whichphilosophy instead of Jolly Penguin, you are right on your interpretation.

 

[The Paul]

Regarding the OP, it's fun to try to pre-empt and ridicule the idea "these women are delusional" or whatever, I'm sure...

But whoever's got the sign there is reacting against a movement that does not exist so yeah... she's delusional.

Anyway, reminds me of this thing I randomly happened on this the other day: http://steamcommunity.com/app/230410/discussions/0/810938082537437068/?l=norwegian

At the same time the author is feeling aggravated enough to post a rant about being harassed for being a woman she feels that she needs to apologize for not liking it, to stress that she's not one of "those women" who do irritating things like insist they be given equal rights to men.

There's some pretty weird and toxic conditioning going on.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...inism_is_imploding_is_wrong.html?wpsrc=fol_tw

Riley uses the existence of an ugly intra-leftist battle in academic circles to draw conclusions about what women, as a group, think about feminism. She argues that “more and more women seem to be jumping the feminist ship” and “know that this ideology has nothing to do with their lives.” She further cites a Tumblr called Women Against Feminism as evidence of the implosion, even though there's nothing new about women being marshaled to attack feminism, usually by making a bunch of accusations that have nothing to do with how feminism looks in the real world. Phyllis Schlafly, anyone?


Intra-feminist battles, particularly in academia, have been a part of the movement from the beginning, but the public face of feminism usually has arguments that are more straightforward and less based in theory: that rape is wrong, birth control is good, equal pay is necessary. Riley may not grasp that feminism is bigger than what women's studies majors are up to, but the truth is that mainstream, non-academic feminism is not losing women at all. On the contrary, feminist arguments are winning people over. For instance, this research by the Council on Contemporary Families shows a gradual but generally steady climb in the general public's approval of feminist ideas. For instance, in 1977, 66 percent of Americans felt it was better if husbands worked while women stayed home with the kids. Now that number is reversed, with 63 percent of Americans believing it’s just as good if both parents work. Riley argues that “women have suffered as a result of a culture that sees casual sex as empowering,” a purposefully vague phrasing that allows you to define “casual” however you wish. Nonetheless, we can safely say that Americans have generally chilled out significantly about the idea that women pursue sexual pleasure for its own sake. Gallup polling shows that 66 percent of Americans think premarital sex is fine, up from even 53 percent in 2001. (Of course, 95 percent of us actually have done it.)