They/Them She/Her He/Him - as you will

[Jarhyn]

Srsly, I just don't get that. The neo-pronouns are actually a cool idea. If the young generation can succeed at formalizing them into a more coherent system, then I think that they might be beneficial to society. We are not quite there, yet, but that's no reason to hate.

It gets complicated.

Referring to a public figure with a gender neutral pronoun, "xhe", is an actionable slur. Referring to a public figure as an "orange faced baboon" is not.

One of the more civil forums I've ever been a member of only had one rule, "Don't be a jerk."
Tom

Referring to someone with a special gender-specific pronoun (xhe is not neutral!) When they are not, so as to ridicule the identity they do have is, in fact, slurring.

Certain people in fact choose to smear their face with orange paint and act like baboons.

I'm sure you believe that.

Bless Your Heart.
Tom

One of the cool things about what constitutes a slur is that it revolves around the Tinkerbell effect. And because you admitted this was your intent, you birthed this fairy all on your own.

 

[Metaphor]

Just let Metaphor use the word faggot if Metaphor wants to. I don't see any harm in us referring to Metaphor as faggot if that's what Metaphor wants.

TomC wanted to refer to himself as faggot, not me. I simply asked if TomC thought it was a 'gender'.

 

[ZiprHead]

The rules and tou are now posted at the bottom of the board. Many thanks to those who posted about this oversight.

 

[Rhea]

FYI for our fellow politickers:
A gender field has been added to user profiles to denote pronouns if you wish to use it.

Add the pronouns you’d like to be used, “He/Him” or “They/Them” or “She/Her” so that people can remember what you use.

Are the above sets of pronouns the only pronouns available, or are they just an illustration/example?

It is an open text field.
But, as stated in the OP, if you wish to identify which pronouns you prefer use this field for that.
If what you put in there is not in the format of a pronoun, then of course people cannot use that as a pronoun.
“Male” is not a pronoun and does not accurately help people to call you he/him. But if you aren’t really one to care, then put “male” and hope people will get he/him correct for you. Same with “Old Fart.”

For those who don’t care - leave it blank. But for those who wish folks would use something particular, there it is.
Click on your name at the top right and go to “account details” then scroll down to gender.

And thanks to TomC for the suggestion.

If somebody puts suggested pronouns in that field, are moderators going to enforce use of the pronouns? I am unclear on the rules of this new policy and the 'Terms and rules' link on the bottom right does not talk about pronoun usage.

We already have a rule that deliberate misgendering is a form of goading and is not allowed. We already try to enforce that. We already have to try to manage whether something is a mistake or deliberate.

This field is intended to help with that. Some people are happy to use the desired pronouns, but just can’t remember. Some people honestly don’t care if they are misgendered on an internet forum.


In sum - if you use the field in good faith as both designator and reader, there will be very few cases of misuse-from-ignorance. That was the intent of the change based on the discussion of the moderation and administration teams.

 

[TomC]

Srsly, I just don't get that. The neo-pronouns are actually a cool idea. If the young generation can succeed at formalizing them into a more coherent system, then I think that they might be beneficial to society. We are not quite there, yet, but that's no reason to hate.

It gets complicated.

Referring to a public figure with a gender neutral pronoun, "xhe", is an actionable slur. Referring to a public figure as an "orange faced baboon" is not.

One of the more civil forums I've ever been a member of only had one rule, "Don't be a jerk."
Tom

Referring to someone with a special gender-specific pronoun (xhe is not neutral!) When they are not, so as to ridicule the identity they do have is, in fact, slurring.

Certain people in fact choose to smear their face with orange paint and act like baboons.

To clarify, slurring public figures is fine with you as long as it's those you don't like.
Do I have that right?
Tom

ETA ~I honestly thought that "xhe" was a gender neutral pronoun. I'm pretty sure a trans person told me that.~

 

[TomC]

We already have a rule that deliberate misgendering is a form of goading and is not allowed. We already try to enforce that. We already have to try to manage whether something is a mistake or deliberate.

Do the same rules apply to IIDB members and public figures who've never posted on this forum?

Enquiring Minds want to know.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Srsly, I just don't get that. The neo-pronouns are actually a cool idea. If the young generation can succeed at formalizing them into a more coherent system, then I think that they might be beneficial to society. We are not quite there, yet, but that's no reason to hate.

It gets complicated.

Referring to a public figure with a gender neutral pronoun, "xhe", is an actionable slur. Referring to a public figure as an "orange faced baboon" is not.

One of the more civil forums I've ever been a member of only had one rule, "Don't be a jerk."
Tom

Referring to someone with a special gender-specific pronoun (xhe is not neutral!) When they are not, so as to ridicule the identity they do have is, in fact, slurring.

Certain people in fact choose to smear their face with orange paint and act like baboons.

To clarify, slurring public figures is fine with you as long as it's those you don't like.
Do I have that right?
Tom

No. The long-term ethos here is to avoid slurring posters not public figures.

 

[TomC]

Srsly, I just don't get that. The neo-pronouns are actually a cool idea. If the young generation can succeed at formalizing them into a more coherent system, then I think that they might be beneficial to society. We are not quite there, yet, but that's no reason to hate.

It gets complicated.

Referring to a public figure with a gender neutral pronoun, "xhe", is an actionable slur. Referring to a public figure as an "orange faced baboon" is not.

One of the more civil forums I've ever been a member of only had one rule, "Don't be a jerk."
Tom

Referring to someone with a special gender-specific pronoun (xhe is not neutral!) When they are not, so as to ridicule the identity they do have is, in fact, slurring.

Certain people in fact choose to smear their face with orange paint and act like baboons.

To clarify, slurring public figures is fine with you as long as it's those you don't like.
Do I have that right?
Tom

No. The long-term ethos here is to avoid slurring posters not public figures.

I have a reason to believe differently. But we'll see.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Srsly, I just don't get that. The neo-pronouns are actually a cool idea. If the young generation can succeed at formalizing them into a more coherent system, then I think that they might be beneficial to society. We are not quite there, yet, but that's no reason to hate.

It gets complicated.

Referring to a public figure with a gender neutral pronoun, "xhe", is an actionable slur. Referring to a public figure as an "orange faced baboon" is not.

One of the more civil forums I've ever been a member of only had one rule, "Don't be a jerk."
Tom

Referring to someone with a special gender-specific pronoun (xhe is not neutral!) When they are not, so as to ridicule the identity they do have is, in fact, slurring.

Certain people in fact choose to smear their face with orange paint and act like baboons.

To clarify, slurring public figures is fine with you as long as it's those you don't like.
Do I have that right?
Tom

No. The long-term ethos here is to avoid slurring posters not public figures.

I have a reason to believe differently. But we'll see.
Tom

Regardless of what you believe is a reason, you believe wrong.

 

[TomC]

Srsly, I just don't get that. The neo-pronouns are actually a cool idea. If the young generation can succeed at formalizing them into a more coherent system, then I think that they might be beneficial to society. We are not quite there, yet, but that's no reason to hate.

It gets complicated.

Referring to a public figure with a gender neutral pronoun, "xhe", is an actionable slur. Referring to a public figure as an "orange faced baboon" is not.

One of the more civil forums I've ever been a member of only had one rule, "Don't be a jerk."
Tom

Referring to someone with a special gender-specific pronoun (xhe is not neutral!) When they are not, so as to ridicule the identity they do have is, in fact, slurring.

Certain people in fact choose to smear their face with orange paint and act like baboons.

To clarify, slurring public figures is fine with you as long as it's those you don't like.
Do I have that right?
Tom

No. The long-term ethos here is to avoid slurring posters not public figures.

I have a reason to believe differently. But we'll see.
Tom

Regardless of what you believe is a reason, you believe wrong.

The brilliance of your analysis is an inspiration to us all.

Now excuse me while I don't discuss moderation. Even I am occasionally able to run without scissors.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

The brilliance of your analysis is an inspiration to us all.

As usual, your response is evidence to the contrary.

IIDB in its early life and TFT has countless examples of slurs against all sorts of public figures - Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals, whites and blacks, men and women, ;ibertarians and communists, etc....

 

[TomC]

The brilliance of your analysis is an inspiration to us all.

As usual, your response is evidence to the contrary.

IIDB in its early life and TFT has countless examples of slurs against all sorts of public figures - Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals, whites and blacks, men and women, ;ibertarians and communists, etc....

Which was exactly my point.

But not just any public figure. Sometimes, disrespecting a public figure is a problem. Against the rules.
That's my reason.

Tom

 

[laughing dog]

The brilliance of your analysis is an inspiration to us all.

As usual, your response is evidence to the contrary.

IIDB in its early life and TFT has countless examples of slurs against all sorts of public figures - Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals, whites and blacks, men and women, ;ibertarians and communists, etc....

Which was exactly my point.

But not just any public figure. Sometimes, disrespecting a public figure is a problem. Against the rules.
That's my reason.

Tom

In my long history here, disrespecting a public figure has never been a problem. But we shall see.

 

[TomC]

The brilliance of your analysis is an inspiration to us all.

As usual, your response is evidence to the contrary.

IIDB in its early life and TFT has countless examples of slurs against all sorts of public figures - Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals, whites and blacks, men and women, ;ibertarians and communists, etc....

Which was exactly my point.

But not just any public figure. Sometimes, disrespecting a public figure is a problem. Against the rules.
That's my reason.

Tom

In my long history here, disrespecting a public figure has never been a problem. But we shall see.

I can tell you for a fact that it is. But like I said, I would be discussing forum moderation.
Tom

 

[TomC]

In my long history here, disrespecting a public figure has never been a problem. But we shall see.

It just occurred to me that we could discuss the relevant posts that led up to the moderation, without discussing the moderation itself. But it still seems quite a derail from the topic of the thread, so I won't.
Tom

 

[blastula]

Referring to a public figure with a gender neutral pronoun, "xhe", is an actionable slur. Referring to a public figure as an "orange faced baboon" is not.

Are you concerned about offending baboons?

 

[Jarhyn]

Referring to a public figure with a gender neutral pronoun, "xhe", is an actionable slur. Referring to a public figure as an "orange faced baboon" is not.

Are you concerned about offending baboons?

And then we were back in the "animals that speak" thread's domain. Hooray.

 

[TomC]

Referring to a public figure with a gender neutral pronoun, "xhe", is an actionable slur. Referring to a public figure as an "orange faced baboon" is not.

Are you concerned about offending baboons?

No.
I'm also not concerned about offending sleazebag lawyers.
But some posters are.
Tom

 

[Rhea]

Just to clarify, before we switched software, we had a TOU (you are using a service, obey the rules), a Rules (Here’s what you can and cannot do), and a Clarification of Rules (for when people tried to find the boundaries of the rules and deliberately set off explosive posts at the point they thought was just outside of them) All posted in “quick links” at the top of every page.

Those rules all still exist, but the moderation team was unaware that the “quick links” to them did not appear in the new software.

Thanks to RayJ for fixing this, and may I suggest everyone buy RayJ a beer somehow, or at least make his fundraising appeal instantly fulfilled to save him the effort of follow-ups, as a way of thanking him for quietly, expertly and instantly responding to our every technical need while we argue about the number of angels who can fart on the head of a pin.

The moderation team recommends that you go and read the rules, which are, the best of the team’s ability, a playbook for how to not be a jerk.

The reason why it is a violation of the TOU to discuss moderation is because it is a chaotic and unrecoverable derail to any thread in which it arises. There is a forum, “Private Feedback” in which you can personally ask a question of the moderation team. It is not a free-for all, however, and abusive posts will be moderated. But if you seek clarity, that’s the place for it.

If you see a post that violates the TOU, report it, and give the mod team time to deal with it. Please do not spuriosly report posts to get back at someone. It’s fairly obvious when people do that and it wastes a lot of the volunteers’ time. And don’t respond to the post you are reporting with a quote of the violation because it just adds to the clean-up.

The moderation team, as always, is a group of volunteer people, who, on their own time, and as an interruption to their own enjoyment of the forum, work to clean up the violations of the TOU that damage the atmosphere of meaningful discussion that this forum intends to provide.

If you are looking for an unfettered pit of insults and flames, and the ability to be mean and attack people’s character, there are other fora, like 4chan or Gettr that may be more to your liking. Each poster must decide if they like the forum - rules and all - and decide if they want to keep posting here.

The rules that were developed are intended to help people understand when their behavior has become unpleasant, and likely to drive away other users. The majority of moderation actions are friendly reminders with no sanctions. Done by volunteers.


I hope that answers the questions.

Any discussion of moderation is only acceptable in the Private Forum.

 

[TomC]

I have explained, more than once, why I do not use pronouns to be 'mean'.

What I recall is you explaining that you prefer to use impolite pronouns because you're too scientifically pure to be civil and polite.
You use male gendered pronouns for trans-women because you care more about your ideology than civility. You insist that pronouns are about sex, not gender.

I don't understand that.
Or maybe the problem is that I do. You prefer an uncivil society, if that means your opinions are given precedence over the feelings and concerns of people who are very different from you.

Sorry if I'm being too honest @Jarhyn, but I see you and Metaphor as having a great deal in common.
Tom