thinking about buying a handgun

[BH]

I've had a public housing apartment complex go up a few blocks from my house a couple of years ago. The petty theft is way up. We have had lawnmowers, a car battery, and tools stolen from the yard and backs of pickups. I thought about buying a revolver or some sort of handgun. I am not going to keel over any time soon I hope but I am not the strongest or most healthiest guy around. So far none of the thieving has involved breakins of homes but the thieves have gone into open garages. Sooner or later I am afraid it will lead to home breakins with the thieves caught in the act or they try it while you are at home but they dont know it. I would not kill over property that does not involve life saving or life sustaining equipement even if the law allowed me to ---I'd let them walk away with my stuff rather than shoot them though I would not advertise that fact. But I do draw the line at being physically beat up.

I got mugged in Dallas twenty years ago. The men claimed they had a gun in their pocket but I never saw it. It scared me to death and there is no way I am going to have that happen again.

 

[Ford]

We have had lawnmowers, a car battery, and tools stolen from the yard and backs of pickups.

The car battery thing reminds me of a time when I lived in an apartment in a sketchy neighborhood. I pulled into the parking lot one night and found this guy trying to steal the battery out of my roommate's car. I confronted him (probably a bad idea in retrospect) and he started to spin a story about how he'd heard the car was for sale and he was just "checking it out."

About the time the conversation was going south, the apartment complex's security guard showed up. He called the cops, and then they showed up.

The thing is, the thief's car was next to my roommate's car, and the dude had his kid in the back seat. In about a half second, my perception of him changed. He wasn't a sinister criminal. He was a desperate man. I mean, what circumstances would have to happen in your life to where you're trying to rip off a battery in an apartment parking lot with your toddler in the back seat of your car?

In today's "stand your ground" environment, that guy might have wound up dead. But what he really needed was help.

 

[BH]

Texas, if I understand correctly, does not have a stand your ground law like Florida. You can only shoot someone if you are in danger and can't get out of the situation (say call the police). Contrary to folks opinion about Texas the vast majority of people never ever want to actually have to hurt anyone. Even the two cops I know who had to take life once can't help but break down crying when asked to talk about it. If the formal law does not punish you for killing someone when morally it wasn't necessary people around here will very much judge you socially speaking in ways that are very legal and very much can hurt you.

 

[BH]

We have had lawnmowers, a car battery, and tools stolen from the yard and backs of pickups.

The car battery thing reminds me of a time when I lived in an apartment in a sketchy neighborhood. I pulled into the parking lot one night and found this guy trying to steal the battery out of my roommate's car. I confronted him (probably a bad idea in retrospect) and he started to spin a story about how he'd heard the car was for sale and he was just "checking it out."

About the time the conversation was going south, the apartment complex's security guard showed up. He called the cops, and then they showed up.

The thing is, the thief's car was next to my roommate's car, and the dude had his kid in the back seat. In about a half second, my perception of him changed. He wasn't a sinister criminal. He was a desperate man. I mean, what circumstances would have to happen in your life to where you're trying to rip off a battery in an apartment parking lot with your toddler in the back seat of your car?

In today's "stand your ground" environment, that guy might have wound up dead. But what he really needed was help.

Of course. One can have some level of empathy and sympathy for the man. He was down on his luck and desperate. However, he had no right to hurt your friend or you by stealing your batteries. The world is such a cruel place sometimes.

 

[TV and credit cards]

We have had lawnmowers, a car battery, and tools stolen from the yard and backs of pickups.

The car battery thing reminds me of a time when I lived in an apartment in a sketchy neighborhood. I pulled into the parking lot one night and found this guy trying to steal the battery out of my roommate's car. I confronted him (probably a bad idea in retrospect) and he started to spin a story about how he'd heard the car was for sale and he was just "checking it out."

About the time the conversation was going south, the apartment complex's security guard showed up. He called the cops, and then they showed up.

The thing is, the thief's car was next to my roommate's car, and the dude had his kid in the back seat. In about a half second, my perception of him changed. He wasn't a sinister criminal. He was a desperate man. I mean, what circumstances would have to happen in your life to where you're trying to rip off a battery in an apartment parking lot with your toddler in the back seat of your car?

In today's "stand your ground" environment, that guy might have wound up dead. But what he really needed was help.

Or the kid served the intended purpose: to play on people's sympathy in case he gets caught. An as likely scenario. One thing is for sure, this criminal intentionally brought his child into a dangerous situation.

A few months back I was sitting in my van in the McDonald's parking lot squeezing out ketchup into the nooks and crannies of my English muffin when a guy walked up with his eight year old daughter in tow asking if I could spare any money so he could get her some breakfast. I gave him the small bills I had. That's the way to do it. Too many half-cocked homeowners with guns out there.

 

[fast]

Beretta 92FS (9mm)

Comes with 2 clips (15 cartridge capacity)

Buy a few extra clips (17 round capacity)

Buy hollow points.

Don't keep a round chambered (until your training warrants it)

Practice using it. Keep it loaded at all times.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

We have had lawnmowers, a car battery, and tools stolen from the yard and backs of pickups.

The car battery thing reminds me of a time when I lived in an apartment in a sketchy neighborhood. I pulled into the parking lot one night and found this guy trying to steal the battery out of my roommate's car. I confronted him (probably a bad idea in retrospect) and he started to spin a story about how he'd heard the car was for sale and he was just "checking it out."

About the time the conversation was going south, the apartment complex's security guard showed up. He called the cops, and then they showed up.

The thing is, the thief's car was next to my roommate's car, and the dude had his kid in the back seat. In about a half second, my perception of him changed. He wasn't a sinister criminal. He was a desperate man. I mean, what circumstances would have to happen in your life to where you're trying to rip off a battery in an apartment parking lot with your toddler in the back seat of your car?

In today's "stand your ground" environment, that guy might have wound up dead. But what he really needed was help.

Agreed. Carry a gun if you want. But please don't shoot someone over something like a car battery.

We have our share of petty theft and break-ins around here. My car has been had twice.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I've had a public housing apartment complex go up a few blocks from my house a couple of years ago. The petty theft is way up. We have had lawnmowers, a car battery, and tools stolen from the yard and backs of pickups. I thought about buying a revolver or some sort of handgun. I am not going to keel over any time soon I hope but I am not the strongest or most healthiest guy around. So far none of the thieving has involved breakins of homes but the thieves have gone into open garages. Sooner or later I am afraid it will lead to home breakins with the thieves caught in the act or they try it while you are at home but they dont know it. I would not kill over property that does not involve life saving or life sustaining equipement even if the law allowed me to ---I'd let them walk away with my stuff rather than shoot them though I would not advertise that fact. But I do draw the line at being physically beat up.

I got mugged in Dallas twenty years ago. The men claimed they had a gun in their pocket but I never saw it. It scared me to death and there is no way I am going to have that happen again.

You would probably be better served in investing in burglar bars and security cameras first.

 

[bilby]

I've had a public housing apartment complex go up a few blocks from my house a couple of years ago. The petty theft is way up. We have had lawnmowers, a car battery, and tools stolen from the yard and backs of pickups. I thought about buying a revolver or some sort of handgun. I am not going to keel over any time soon I hope but I am not the strongest or most healthiest guy around. So far none of the thieving has involved breakins of homes but the thieves have gone into open garages. Sooner or later I am afraid it will lead to home breakins with the thieves caught in the act or they try it while you are at home but they dont know it. I would not kill over property that does not involve life saving or life sustaining equipement even if the law allowed me to ---I'd let them walk away with my stuff rather than shoot them though I would not advertise that fact. But I do draw the line at being physically beat up.

I got mugged in Dallas twenty years ago. The men claimed they had a gun in their pocket but I never saw it. It scared me to death and there is no way I am going to have that happen again.

How would owning a gun prevent that from happening again?

If you were in the exact same situation, but with a loaded gun concealed under your jacket, what would you have done differently?

You acted on the assumption that they actually were armed, right? And training a gun on you (although you couldn't see it)? So using that assumption, what do you think would have happened if you had tried to draw a gun, release the safety, and bring it to bear on your assailants?

Assuming that you are not a superhero, my expectation would be that they would have shot you. So the difference between your having a gun, and your not having a gun, would be that having a gun would likely get you shot. I presume that you did not get shot on that occasion, so it would appear to me that having a gun would have done you no good, and potentially significant harm.

While there are some circumstances where a gun might prevent you from being the victim of a crime, such circumstances are very rare - while the risks of owning a gun are quite large. A criminal who knows you are armed has an incentive to shoot first. And accidents with firearms are not uncommon. A gun that is loaded and carried on your person is a dangerous object that can easily result in your accidental wounding. A gun that is unloaded and/or not carried on your person is of little value to you for any purpose.

Even in the USA, where armed criminals are commonplace, a gun is a poor investment in the protection of your property; You would be better off spending the money on better locks, security grilles, or a guard dog. Or just get an 'Armed response' sign, and display it on your property. It will deter most criminals, whether or not you actually have a gun.

If you want a firearm for a situation where you think you might disturb a thief and get the drop on him, a pump-action shotgun is better than a handgun; It's both visible and audible, giving the criminal no doubt that he is in deep shit, and it requires a less precise aim to be effective, which is essential if you are not very highly trained, and are in a high stress situation (like finding a stranger stealing stuff from your garage).

Ultimately a gun is not a defensive weapon - it is only worth having if you have the initiative. Once someone else has a gun aimed at you, you have lost, no matter how well armed you are. And if you are armed, you invite death if you hesitate to kill. From your other comments in this thread, I don't see you as the kind of unhesitating killer for whom a gun might be useful.

 

[phands]

Just don't. More guns always leads to more death.

 

[BH]

Bilby and phands made good points against it. I have a cousin who was a policeman for a while and he accidentally shot off his own finger cleaning his weapon. The bullet went right through the end of his finger into the tv and then out of the tv into the apartment next to his. He ran next door to make sure it didn't hurt anyone and it didn't. He was lucky because it got caught in a stud and did not penetrate the wall.

 

[laughing dog]

I don't have a handgun and I don't want one - they scare me. But I understand that having a handgun makes many people feel safer. Which is important.

If you really feel the need to get a handgun, learn how to properly maintain, store and use one. That education and training will probably make you feel safer and being safer as well.

 

[Jobar]

I've had a public housing apartment complex go up a few blocks from my house a couple of years ago. The petty theft is way up. We have had lawnmowers, a car battery, and tools stolen from the yard and backs of pickups. I thought about buying a revolver or some sort of handgun. I am not going to keel over any time soon I hope but I am not the strongest or most healthiest guy around. So far none of the thieving has involved breakins of homes but the thieves have gone into open garages. Sooner or later I am afraid it will lead to home breakins with the thieves caught in the act or they try it while you are at home but they dont know it. I would not kill over property that does not involve life saving or life sustaining equipement even if the law allowed me to ---I'd let them walk away with my stuff rather than shoot them though I would not advertise that fact. But I do draw the line at being physically beat up.

I got mugged in Dallas twenty years ago. The men claimed they had a gun in their pocket but I never saw it. It scared me to death and there is no way I am going to have that happen again.

You would probably be better served in investing in burglar bars and security cameras first.

Agreed. You can buy a security system that records your property from several angles, and stores it for several days on a dedicated drive, for about the same price as a good handgun. It's always on duty (you can get a battery backup so it even works during power outages), requires no skills, and is probably more effective at preventing petty larceny than owning a gun, especially if you put up signs that your property is under video surveillance. It also means you have a better chance of actually catching any thieves and seeing them locked up, instead of just scaring them off.

For self defense, I'd suggest you get a small shotgun instead of a pistol. When I was a young man, I practiced for years, and never got more than barely adequate at ranges of more than 25 feet with a pistol. A shotgun, even a .410 or 20 gauge, is much easier to learn, scarier to any thief or attacker, and less likely to injure *you*. While you can't carry it around with you constantly, it's still more effective than a handgun small enough to lug around with you for most of your waking hours.

 

[braces_for_impact]

There's been some good advice given why not to own a gun. I don't own a gun currently but I have in the past. One piece of advice. IF you decide to get a gun, please PLEASE get properly trained in it's use and maintenance. Also, you must buy a quality way to safeguard the weapon when not in use. It can actually be quite an investment once you're done. Firearm, lockbox or trigger lock, classes. The last thing you want if you do have a break in is to provide a thief with a firearm. There are many many scenarios where not knowing how and when to use your weapon can astronomically increase the amount of danger you face. Be smart about it.

 

[whollygoats]

As another former gun owner, I concur with others here.

Know what it is you are doing and how to use, maintain, and store your weapon correctly.

Know that by owning a handgun, you increase the chances that you and your loved ones will be a gunshot victims. If you fail to train yourself to use it correctly, you chances increase astronomically.

 

[phands]

Bilby and phands made good points against it. I have a cousin who was a policeman for a while and he accidentally shot off his own finger cleaning his weapon. The bullet went right through the end of his finger into the tv and then out of the tv into the apartment next to his. He ran next door to make sure it didn't hurt anyone and it didn't. He was lucky because it got caught in a stud and did not penetrate the wall.

One thing an old friend - a Texas homicide detective - told me is that the one thing Cops fear most is untrained civilians with guns. Please don't add to the problem.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Add me to the chorus that says that you don't get a gun without getting training on it.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

And aside from the training, if you do finally decide to get a handgun for personal protection I would recommend a .22. They have the exact same effect as a larger caliber in regard to deterrent and comparable (in some cases better) stopping power, but not as high lethality.

Iow, you can scare 99% of would-be burglars/assailants away without ever having to fire the thing and if you ever do need to fire it, the chances are you will wound, not unnecessarily kill (unless you’re well trained and intend to kill).

That can then translate into a comparable margin of safety in regard to family members and accidents. Still incredibly dangerous, of course, but on a scale of Stormtrooper to Dirty Harry...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And aside from the training, if you do finally decide to get a handgun for personal protection I would recommend a .22. They have the exact same effect as a larger caliber in regard to deterrent and comparable (in some cases better) stopping power, but not as high lethality.

Iow, you can scare 99% of would-be burglars/assailants away without ever having to fire the thing and if you ever do need to fire it, the chances are you will wound, not unnecessarily kill (unless you’re well trained and intend to kill).

That can then translate into a comparable margin of safety in regard to family members and accidents. Still incredibly dangerous, of course, but on a scale of Stormtrooper to Dirty Harry...

If you have to fire you want them stopped now. A .22 isn't going to do that unless you hit something vital.

 

[Ford]

Add me to the chorus that says that you don't get a gun without getting training on it.

When I was a kid, I went through an NRA-sponsored gun safety course. This was back in the late 70s when the organization was still (mostly) about hunting and safe handling of firearms.

It might as well have been titled "How Not To Shoot Someone."

The lesson they hammered over and over again was that you never, ever pointed a firearm at another human being. Even accidentally. The rifle or shotgun in your hands was a deadly fucking weapon and if you were an idiot with it you might wound or kill someone...yourself included. Keep the safety on. Know whether or not a round is in the chamber. Check your field of fire. Know the distance your round will travel and make sure there's nothing and no one downrange. Don't even put your finger on the trigger unless you're absolutely sure you're not putting yourself or another person in danger.

The course was tough, and a lot of people failed...myself included. Then the instructor took a very long time to berate those of us who failed and tell us in no uncertain terms that we had no business carrying a firearm.


I think we need more of that sort of thing.