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Third possibility

fast

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I'm looking for a quick and concise way to convey a distinction. Ultimately, I need two words, one to describe a particular relationship and one to describe a different relationship.

Before I go into great detail, let's take a journey through categorizational rules of mutual exclusivity and collective exhaustivity, especially the latter, as that's the relevant one for this discussion. There are two numbers in this world: 17 and not 17. Those are the only two options. Don't think so? Give me a number that is not 17 and it'll belong in the not 17 category. Silly, but still, the groups are collectively exhaustive. That's important, and it takes the form of A and Not A. Two possibilities max.

Two groups: natural blonde and natural brunette. That's not collectively exhaustive. Throw in "other" and wallah, collectively exhaustive!

Terms that are opposites, however, are not collectively exhaustive.
Cold and hot isn't, but cold and not cold is.
Practical and impractical isn't, but practical and not practical is
Happy and sad isn't, but happy and not happy is
True and false isn't, but true and not true is
Deductive argument and inductive argument isn't, but deductive argument and non-deductive argument is
Valid and invalid isn't, but valid and not valid is
Punk ass sissy and bad ass dude isn't, but punk ass sissy and not punk ass sissy is

Let's take valid and invalid as an example to explore further. I'm not looking to argue my case. I know I'm right and that's not even the issue. The issue is how do you describe valid vs invalid, and how do you describe valid vs not valid?

In other words, let's say I want to draw attention to an alternate outlook. If an argument is invalid, it's not valid, but the inverse is not necessarily true. Consider an inductive argument that is neither valid nor invalid. It's still the case they are not valid and not invalid. Yes, I'm well aware of the dictionary definitions. The point here isn't to argue my case--just to highlight the distinctions presented.

Category errors can be relevant. If something cannot be one thing or it's opposite, it can still not be one thing and not the other. Let's do another example. It's impractical to cut an acre of grass by hand with scissors. Because there's no category error, there's good reason to consult a dictionary and equate impractical with not practical. If we're dealing with deductive arguments and find that one is invalid, it's reasonable to conclude that it's not valid. However, with category errors, it's a mistake to conclude equivalence. A sentence that is pure garblygook does not express a true proposition, nor does it express a false proposition, yet it's still the case the sentence is not true just as it's the case the sentence is not false. It's neither true nor false.

Is 8 compatible with food? That doesn't make any sense. We shouldn't say it's compatible anymore than we should say they're incompatible. But, you can say they're not compatible without implying they're incompatible. I can say the tree doesn't like me without implying the tree dislikes me. A tree neither likes nor dislikes. My shoe isn't sad, but that doesn't imply my shoe is happy. My shoe isn't happy, but that doesn't imply my shoe is sad.

So, how would you describe the relationship between practical and impractical? Opposites? Okay, how about practical and not practical? Not the same because there is an implication with impractical that isn't present with not practical. Never mind your agreement or disagreement. If you say something is impractical, then practicality has to be a logical possibility. The goal is to describe the relationship. If something can't be happy or sad, then being opposites not one fails to imply the other.
 
Wallah - A noun taken from Hindi, meaning 'servant', usually with specific duties; eg Chai Wallah, a servant whose job is to serve tea; Punkah Wallah, a servant who pulls a rope to power a ceiling fan.

Voilà! - An exclamation taken from French, used to call attention, to express satisfaction or approval, or to suggest an appearance as if by magic. Literally translates as 'look there!'


/PetPeeve
 
Wallah - A noun taken from Hindi, meaning 'servant', usually with specific duties; eg Chai Wallah, a servant whose job is to serve tea; Punkah Wallah, a servant who pulls a rope to power a ceiling fan.

Voilà! - An exclamation taken from French, used to call attention, to express satisfaction or approval, or to suggest an appearance as if by magic. Literally translates as 'look there!'


/PetPeeve
I knew something wasn't right.
 
Is really ”beautiful” and ”not beautiful” extausive?
”Anyone” and ”not anyone”?
”Enough” and ”not enough”?
”All” and ”not all”?
Language is a bitch...
 
I'm with you up to this point.

Let's take valid and invalid as an example to explore further.

I think anything that is not valid is invalid. I think "not valid" and "invalid" are perfect synonyms.
 
Is really ”beautiful” and ”not beautiful” extausive?
”Anyone” and ”not anyone”?
”Enough” and ”not enough”?
”All” and ”not all”?
Language is a bitch...
The "not" closes the gap like "other" or "none of the above." It's the "everything else" category.

The older more original meaning of "atheist" was not a gap closer. There was theist and atheist leaving the third option of neither. The new more encompassing meaning is a gap closer.

The old nomenclature:
Theist: B(G) belief there is a God
Atheist: B(~G) belief thee is not a God

The new nomenclature:
Theist: B(G) belief there is a God
Atheist: ~B(G) no (or lack) of a belief in God

With the broader newer one, there's no room ... well, there actually is if it's fully extended, but the point is for added illustrative purposes.

The break down if you're curious:
Is that an atheist is an agent that does not hold a belief in God whereas a theist is an agent that has a belief in a God. It's technically not gap filling or else rocks would be atheists, and that would be a silly extension to take seriously.
 
Is really ”beautiful” and ”not beautiful” extausive?
”Anyone” and ”not anyone”?
”Enough” and ”not enough”?
”All” and ”not all”?
Language is a bitch...
The "not" closes the gap like "other" or "none of the above." It's the "everything else" category.

The older more original meaning of "atheist" was not a gap closer. There was theist and atheist leaving the third option of neither. The new more encompassing meaning is a gap closer.

The old nomenclature:
Theist: B(G) belief there is a God
Atheist: B(~G) belief thee is not a God

The new nomenclature:
Theist: B(G) belief there is a God
Atheist: ~B(G) no (or lack) of a belief in God

With the broader newer one, there's no room ... well, there actually is if it's fully extended, but the point is for added illustrative purposes.

The break down if you're curious:
Is that an atheist is an agent that does not hold a belief in God whereas a theist is an agent that has a belief in a God. It's technically not gap filling or else rocks would be atheists, and that would be a silly extension to take seriously.


: everone knows what ”not” means. That wasnt my point of my post...
 
I'm with you up to this point.

Let's take valid and invalid as an example to explore further.

I think anything that is not valid is invalid. I think "not valid" and "invalid" are perfect synonyms.
Well yes, they are perfectly synonymous but only when applied to things that are applicable. When the applicability is lost, the distinction becomes relevant. Invalid implies not valid, but not valid does not imply invalid. It may as well imply it but only if applicable. For instance, a tree is not valid. Heck, what would it even mean to say that? From that, however, we oughtnt say that a tree is invalid unless a tree could be the kind of thing that could be either.

Deductive arguments are valid or invalid. Deductive arguments therefore are valid or not valid.

Inductive arguments are neither valid nor invalid, yet it's true they are not valid, and it's true they are not invalid.
 
More explanation:

Invalid says more

Invalid says two things

Invalid says a) validity is possible
And b) that it's not valid

ETA: that's why it correct to say inductive arguments are not valid and incorrect to say inductive arguments are invalid
 
By the way, what is the term to distinguish what I'm talking about? Valid and invalid, I think are opposites whereas valid and not valid are negations. Yeah, I think that's it!

Go me! :D
 
More explanation:

Invalid says more

Invalid says two things

Invalid says a) validity is possible
And b) that it's not valid

ETA: that's why it correct to say inductive arguments are not valid and incorrect to say inductive arguments are invalid
Invalid doesnt say ”validity is possible” but ”i’m judging the validity of this”.
A shoe is invalid as a passport.
 
More explanation:

Invalid says more

Invalid says two things

Invalid says a) validity is possible
And b) that it's not valid

ETA: that's why it correct to say inductive arguments are not valid and incorrect to say inductive arguments are invalid
Invalid doesnt say ”validity is possible” but ”i’m judging the validity of this”.
A shoe is invalid as a passport.
What's possible is to have something stand good as a valid passport; ergo, something can not stand good as a valid passport. So yes, a shoe can be articulated as invalid being synonymous with not valid. If you're going to give an example, make sure it's one that cannot be valid. For instance, an inductive argument. They are never valid. They are never invalid. They are not valid, and they are not invalid.
 
Is really ”beautiful” and ”not beautiful” extausive?
”Anyone” and ”not anyone”?
”Enough” and ”not enough”?
”All” and ”not all”?
Language is a bitch...


Those are clearly exhaustive.
 
Is really ”beautiful” and ”not beautiful” extausive?
”Anyone” and ”not anyone”?
”Enough” and ”not enough”?
”All” and ”not all”?
Language is a bitch...


Those are clearly exhaustive.

Only if you accept the  law of excluded middle. I don't think many modern logics do, for exactly the reasons discussed in this thread...
 
I suspect you're going too far.

For example, an inductive argument can be said to be valid, not valid, invalid, or not invalid. It's up to us to understand what somebody would mean by that, and usually the context will help. You think valid and not valid only apply to deductive arguments but that's not true. In everyday use, any statement can be said valid, not valid, invalid, or not invalid. In the context of modern logic at least, these words get a more precise acceptation, namely that you can't have a valid deduction with a true premise and a false conclusion.

"Impractical" can also mean not practical, or not depending on the context.

Personally, I think meaningfulness comes always first. The statements "it's a valid tree", "it's not a valid tree", "it's an invalid tree", etc. are all meaningless. The statement "a tree is not valid" is short for, and therefore really means, "the statement 'it's a valid tree' is meaningless".

We can get to use the same linguistic formula to serve for different jobs. Logicians can legislate the language they use between them to prevent this, but not the language used by other people. The same I would say applies to scientists who think they can legislate what "attention" and "awareness" mean in everyday usage. Well, no.

Your idea seems impractical to me, at least as applied to everyday use.

Too complicated, this past-time. You should learn to refrain. I suspect you're getting addicted to this stuff. :p

"Atheist" still means "a believer that there is no god" for many people, or even a person who advocates such a belief, and for the good reason that the suffix "-ist" suggests this interpretation. This isn't so in French, where "athée" doesn't carry any suffix so only the prefix "a-" applies.

See?

Et voilà!
EB
 
I suspect you're going too far.

For example, an inductive argument can be said to be valid, not valid, invalid, or not invalid. It's up to us to understand what somebody would mean by that, and usually the context will help. You think valid and not valid only apply to deductive arguments but that's not true. In everyday use, any statement can be said valid, not valid, invalid, or not invalid. In the context of modern logic at least, these words get a more precise acceptation, namely that you can't have a valid deduction with a true premise and a false conclusion.

"Impractical" can also mean not practical, or not depending on the context.

Personally, I think meaningfulness comes always first. The statements "it's a valid tree", "it's not a valid tree", "it's an invalid tree", etc. are all meaningless. The statement "a tree is not valid" is short for, and therefore really means, "the statement 'it's a valid tree' is meaningless".

We can get to use the same linguistic formula to serve for different jobs. Logicians can legislate the language they use between them to prevent this, but not the language used by other people. The same I would say applies to scientists who think they can legislate what "attention" and "awareness" mean in everyday usage. Well, no.

Your idea seems impractical to me, at least as applied to everyday use.

Too complicated, this past-time. You should learn to refrain. I suspect you're getting addicted to this stuff. :p

"Atheist" still means "a believer that there is no god" for many people, or even a person who advocates such a belief, and for the good reason that the suffix "-ist" suggests this interpretation. This isn't so in French, where "athée" doesn't carry any suffix so only the prefix "a-" applies.

See?

Et voilà!
EB

Drat

Fine

Damnit

But, I'll be watching.

:)
 
A shoe is invalid as a passport.

Well, usually, yes.

But, just possibly, it could be regarded as a valid passport in some, unlikely and left unspecified by me, context(s).

This would tend to show that some things, like passports and for example ideologies, are fairly elastic in providing a context for the validity of shoes.

Soooo, passports may provide valid contexts for the validity of shoes. A kind of second order validity. I'm getting all confused now. :thinking:
EB
 
I'm with you up to this point.

Let's take valid and invalid as an example to explore further.

I think anything that is not valid is invalid. I think "not valid" and "invalid" are perfect synonyms.
Well yes, they are perfectly synonymous but only when applied to things that are applicable. When the applicability is lost, the distinction becomes relevant. Invalid implies not valid, but not valid does not imply invalid. It may as well imply it but only if applicable. For instance, a tree is not valid. Heck, what would it even mean to say that? From that, however, we oughtnt say that a tree is invalid unless a tree could be the kind of thing that could be either.

Deductive arguments are valid or invalid. Deductive arguments therefore are valid or not valid.

Inductive arguments are neither valid nor invalid, yet it's true they are not valid, and it's true they are not invalid.

You make a good point. True and not true are exhaustive, but true and false aren't, because some things aren't truth apt.
 
Well yes, they are perfectly synonymous but only when applied to things that are applicable. When the applicability is lost, the distinction becomes relevant. Invalid implies not valid, but not valid does not imply invalid. It may as well imply it but only if applicable. For instance, a tree is not valid. Heck, what would it even mean to say that? From that, however, we oughtnt say that a tree is invalid unless a tree could be the kind of thing that could be either.

Deductive arguments are valid or invalid. Deductive arguments therefore are valid or not valid.

Inductive arguments are neither valid nor invalid, yet it's true they are not valid, and it's true they are not invalid.

You make a good point. True and not true are exhaustive, but true and false aren't, because some things aren't truth apt.
Exactly.

The only room for exception is when ambiguity rears its ugly head and a term is used in accordance with other meanings. For instance, X is not criminal, yet people disagree by invoking a clearly different meaning of the word, "criminal."
 
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