This is American TV

[Jobar]

Thomas II linked to the video by Childish Gambino in the What music are you listening to? thread.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOjWnS4cMY[/YOUTUBE]

If you haven't watched it you should- despite the shocking violence.

I've never been a fan of rap, and never seen any rap videos that I considered artistically or socially important. But this one is; if you can call it rap. It seems more sui generis, one of a kind, to me.

In the music thread, in the next post after the link above, underseer links to half a dozen commentaries on the work. It's worth reading those. Donald Glover (Gambino's real name) has given us a 4-minute piece of art that speaks on many levels; a thing of humor, horror, poetry, politics and race- and on all of them it strikes hard and deep.

I'd like to comment on something that I haven't seen other writers remark upon; the confusion between real life and entertainment which television seems to cause. "Reality TV" is responsible for a multitude of sins; and I think that Glover is aware of how his chosen medium is a large but often unrecognized part of the awful problems he tries to address. Dancing, singing, and shooting- all become grist for the entertainment mill.

For most of my life I've been a 'television hermit'- although I watch a lot of YouTube, and catch the occasional movie, I have avoided watching network TV since back in the 1980s. I realize that my way of dealing with the chaos and strife generated by the medium is not really workable for the great majority of people. But I do think that Glover is, in his own way, looking for a solution to this; even if only by recognizing that the problem exists.

 

[Jayjay]

I found myself chuckling when he gunned down the church choir; too bad they didn't stay dead though.

 

[OLDMAN]

Thomas II linked to the video by Childish Gambino in the What music are you listening to? thread.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOjWnS4cMY[/YOUTUBE]

If you haven't watched it you should- despite the shocking violence.

I've never been a fan of rap, and never seen any rap videos that I considered artistically or socially important. But this one is; if you can call it rap. It seems more sui generis, one of a kind, to me.

In the music thread, in the next post after the link above, underseer links to half a dozen commentaries on the work. It's worth reading those. Donald Glover (Gambino's real name) has given us a 4-minute piece of art that speaks on many levels; a thing of humor, horror, poetry, politics and race- and on all of them it strikes hard and deep.

I'd like to comment on something that I haven't seen other writers remark upon; the confusion between real life and entertainment which television seems to cause. "Reality TV" is responsible for a multitude of sins; and I think that Glover is aware of how his chosen medium is a large but often unrecognized part of the awful problems he tries to address. Dancing, singing, and shooting- all become grist for the entertainment mill.

For most of my life I've been a 'television hermit'- although I watch a lot of YouTube, and catch the occasional movie, I have avoided watching network TV since back in the 1980s. I realize that my way of dealing with the chaos and strife generated by the medium is not really workable for the great majority of people. But I do think that Glover is, in his own way, looking for a solution to this; even if only by recognizing that the problem exists.

There are lots of socially important rap songs:

 

[Patooka]

If Troy Barnes did a rap song and Abed Nadir directed it, it would look like this.

 

[southernhybrid]

Well, firs of all Jobar, it's not called Rap anymore, it's called Hip Hop. But, music with a message, as the O'Jays used to call it, is nothing new. In 1981, the late Rick James did the funky song known as "Mr. Policeman". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7pn6s_HXLg I used to make CDs for my young black coworkers when I was still working. They loved the old school stuff more than the newer Hip Hop. Glover is okay but I still prefer the old school artists.

And there are plenty of other old school soul and funk songs with similar messages, like for example, Stevie Wonder's old hit, "Living for the City."

The sad thing is that America hasn't made much progress in all of these years when it comes to violence and social injustice. The current administration sure ain't helping. That's for sure Bro!

But, if you actually did watch television, you would have seen Glover hosting SNL a few weeks ago. There's lot of good shit on tv these days, far too much for most of us.

 

[Underseer]

I found myself chuckling when he gunned down the church choir; too bad they didn't stay dead though.

I'm pretty sure that part of the rap video was intended to make you think of the Charleston shooting.

 

[Underseer]

Well, firs of all Jobar, it's not called Rap anymore, it's called Hip Hop. [...]

[PEDANTIC]

Not sure what you mean by "anymore." Both words are about as old, their meanings are kind of nebulous, but generally speaking hip hop describes culture, while rap describes the spoken poetry set to music.
http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-culture/the-difference-between-rap-hip-hop-798
http://www.iamhiphopmagazine.com/rap-vs-hip-hop-difference/​

[/PEDANTIC]

 

[southernhybrid]

Well, firs of all Jobar, it's not called Rap anymore, it's called Hip Hop. [...]

[PEDANTIC]

Not sure what you mean by "anymore." Both words are about as old, their meanings are kind of nebulous, but generally speaking hip hop describes culture, while rap describes the spoken poetry set to music.
http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-culture/the-difference-between-rap-hip-hop-798
http://www.iamhiphopmagazine.com/rap-vs-hip-hop-difference/​

[/PEDANTIC]

I was being s little sarcastic ( Jobar knows me by now ) but I never hear anyone referring to hip hop as rap anymore. Supposedly, hip hop has been around since the 70s, but I never heard anyone refer to it as hip hop until the 90s. Rap was the new hot music of the 80s but the only rap I could usually tolerate when my son was a teen, was Run DMC. Although much later, I heard Maceo Parker, among other artists, mixing some rap with jazz that I liked. But yes, I do agree with you on one thing. A lot of slang terms are nebulous in that they mean different things in different times to different people.

I came back to this thread to link a review of "This is America". I did watch it on SNL but I had no idea it was the first time it was ever heard. I guess I wasn't paying close attention at the time. https://www.highsnobiety.com/p/childish-gambino-this-is-america-recap/ And yes, the choir shooting was supposed to represent the Charleston church shooting.

The thing that gets me is that people are acting as if music that discusses gun violence, social injustice etc. is something new. Not necessarily any of the members here, but people in general. The truth is that music with similar messages has been around since at least the early 20th Century. I've been a huge fan of Billie Holiday since my early 20s and I imagine that most of you here are familiar with her song, "Strange Fruit", about lynchings in the South. I only recently learned that Billie didn't write that song. It was written by two white guys in New York City for her. The story goes that she embraced the song so strongly, as she herself had witnessed lynchings, while traveling through the south, that she began to claim she wrote the song herself. The article that I read said the true authors of the song didn't mind that she claimed it as her own. I found that interesting.

Ray Charles did lots of songs that had political and social themes, as did James Brown to name just two extremely popular soul artists. So, I guess I find it a little amusing when people act as if this is something new. I've often thought of starting a thread here about old school soul, one for songs with politcal messages and perhaps one for slow jams, what my black friends commonly refer to as "baby making music." I personally find music by black American artists to be the best music America has to offer, be it jazz, soul, funk, blues or in a few cases rap/hip hop, but whenever I've brought it up on any atheist discussion boards, there wasn't any interest. That reminds me, Ray Charles did a cute little song called "Game Number Nine" back in the early sixties that could probably be called rap. My husband substitute teachings now and then and he played that song for the kids. They all agreed it was rap. So, I guess when it comes to good music, what goes around, comes around.

 

[ZiprHead]

This is one of my favs. Too bad it gets a little into the conspiracy theory stuff. "Spittin' cyanide each and every verse." I just love that line.

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/wrVX0iVyzmw[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Ford]

I've never been a fan of rap, and never seen any rap videos that I considered artistically or socially important. But this one is; if you can call it rap. It seems more sui generis, one of a kind, to me.

I was playing "rap" records on the radio staring in 1984. The program director of the college station I worked at had this crazy idea to play rap songs along with top 40 records. So you'd segue from Huey Lewis or Madonna into Kool Mo Dee or Grandmaster Flash. Then I went on to work at stations where they'd play the "no rap" versions of songs by TLC and Boyz II Men. Sanitized to take out the hip hop. I also DJ'd at a club where there were certain nights we couldn't play the "rap music."

In the mid 90s I wound up working at a station that fully embraced not just hip hop, but Latin hip hop, which was becoming a thing. I hung out with acts like Lighter Shade of Brown and Kid Frost. Went to a lot of hip hop shows. Introduced hip hop acts on stage. Interviewed some hip hop artists (the worst was Coolio) and as a white guy got to be kind of an inside outsider if that makes any sense.

When I look at this video it makes me think about how far the music has gone beyond what I once knew. This is different than something like 'Lil Xan (which I posted about before). It isn't mumble rap. It is an art form I haven't yet caught up with. I watch it and there's part of me that resists "getting it" and that makes me want to examine myself and figure out why. Like I wanna run back and load up an Ice Cube track and remember "back in the day" but I should dig down into this song and figure out what's happening now.

 

[Jobar]

I do wonder what the reaction would have been if the choir had been white instead of black.

Certainly this is about race, but I think it's just as much about American society in general, and Glover makes it plain that all races have plenty to fear in America today.

And I'm very well aware that music has been used as a form of social commentary since long before it could be recorded. Though I didn't mention it in my OP I had thought of the similarity to 'Strange Fruit'. Also to the televising of the JFK assassination, race riots, and anti-war protests. Not to mention the propaganda of the Nazi Party- IIRC the first actual television broadcast was of a speech by Hitler.

Still, it seems to me that modern TV reporting is becoming less 'fact-based', and there's less of a distinction made between news reporting and entertainment. I suspect all of us have quoted, at one time or another, "You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts." But if our main medium for the broadcast of information keeps tending to confuse fact and opinion, I fear for the whole idea of democracy- which requires an electorate that has access to the facts needed to make informed decisions.

 

[Underseer]

Well, firs of all Jobar, it's not called Rap anymore, it's called Hip Hop. [...]

[PEDANTIC]

Not sure what you mean by "anymore." Both words are about as old, their meanings are kind of nebulous, but generally speaking hip hop describes culture, while rap describes the spoken poetry set to music.
http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-culture/the-difference-between-rap-hip-hop-798
http://www.iamhiphopmagazine.com/rap-vs-hip-hop-difference/​

[/PEDANTIC]

I was being s little sarcastic ( Jobar knows me by now ) but I never hear anyone referring to hip hop as rap anymore. Supposedly, hip hop has been around since the 70s, but I never heard anyone refer to it as hip hop until the 90s. Rap was the new hot music of the 80s but the only rap I could usually tolerate when my son was a teen, was Run DMC. Although much later, I heard Maceo Parker, among other artists, mixing some rap with jazz that I liked. But yes, I do agree with you on one thing. A lot of slang terms are nebulous in that they mean different things in different times to different people.

I came back to this thread to link a review of "This is America". I did watch it on SNL but I had no idea it was the first time it was ever heard. I guess I wasn't paying close attention at the time. https://www.highsnobiety.com/p/childish-gambino-this-is-america-recap/ And yes, the choir shooting was supposed to represent the Charleston church shooting.

The thing that gets me is that people are acting as if music that discusses gun violence, social injustice etc. is something new. Not necessarily any of the members here, but people in general. The truth is that music with similar messages has been around since at least the early 20th Century. I've been a huge fan of Billie Holiday since my early 20s and I imagine that most of you here are familiar with her song, "Strange Fruit", about lynchings in the South. I only recently learned that Billie didn't write that song. It was written by two white guys in New York City for her. The story goes that she embraced the song so strongly, as she herself had witnessed lynchings, while traveling through the south, that she began to claim she wrote the song herself. The article that I read said the true authors of the song didn't mind that she claimed it as her own. I found that interesting.

Ray Charles did lots of songs that had political and social themes, as did James Brown to name just two extremely popular soul artists. So, I guess I find it a little amusing when people act as if this is something new. I've often thought of starting a thread here about old school soul, one for songs with politcal messages and perhaps one for slow jams, what my black friends commonly refer to as "baby making music." I personally find music by black American artists to be the best music America has to offer, be it jazz, soul, funk, blues or in a few cases rap/hip hop, but whenever I've brought it up on any atheist discussion boards, there wasn't any interest. That reminds me, Ray Charles did a cute little song called "Game Number Nine" back in the early sixties that could probably be called rap. My husband substitute teachings now and then and he played that song for the kids. They all agreed it was rap. So, I guess when it comes to good music, what goes around, comes around.

I don't think anyone thinks complaints about gun violence are new, and the fascination with Glover's rap song has to do with a lot more than just the commentary on gun culture. I'm not sure where you got that impression.

And of course no one thinks this is the first song to address social injustice. It has sparked a lot of conversation about the topic, however. That is what is significant. No one thinks this is the first song to ever broach the topic. What gave you the impression that that was the case?