This week in feminism: The Hottest Thing a Man Can Do Is Not Be a Jerk About Astrology

[laughing dog]

No, you should not feign interest in something that doesn't interest you. You can be polite about it, though.

And how does one tell the difference between politeness without interest and feigned interest?

Well, feigned interest involves lying and politeness doesn't.

Non-responsive - how does one tell the difference? BTW - politeness may involve lying.

For example, am I feigning interest now or being polite? How can you tell?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Non-responsive - how does one tell the difference? BTW - politeness may involve lying.

In context, the difference doesn't matter. If you encourage her to talk about her interests, you're interested in her. Your relationship to the toopic is irrelevant. She'll be encouraged to share.

Similarly, shutting her down could be because you are disinterested in the topic, or because you're very interested in the topic, at a professional level, but not interested in HER opinion, maybe she's an amateur. Like when Trump tells Ivanka not to weigh in on President business with, "Honey, you sell purses."

 

[Metaphor]

Well, feigned interest involves lying and politeness doesn't.

Non-responsive - how does one tell the difference? BTW - politeness may involve lying.

From whose perspective? From the perspective of the person who is the subject of the feigned interest versus politeness? I don't know. Someone's feigning could be sloppy, I suppose. When people at work ask how my weekend was, I don't think they're really interested, though. It's just a social politeness built into people to ask.

From the perspective of the person feigning interest versus merely being polite? I can tell which I'm doing, even though many of the actions are similar between the two. As for the actions/utterances that would distinguish feigning interest from politeness, the main one would be not to lie about your interest. E.g. if somebody asked me 'do you follow football?' my answer would be 'no', or 'football does not appeal to me'.

 

[Toni]

Yes you did.

Politeness is a good way to handle the issue. So is being interested in the person or the person's interest in whatever non-interesting subject that is being contended.

Well, yes, I think you should be polite, but that cannot extend to 'being interested' in something you are not interested in. You can't choose what to be interested in; it chooses you.

I don't give a rat's ass about the Packers and I find most Packers' fans to be far less interesting than the Packers or football. However, it is interesting to me to learn WHY people love the Packers or football or baseball or poker or whatever.

I can agree that you can be meta-interested in something. For example, many years ago, I asked a group of friends of mine (some who watched sports and some who didn't), what it means to 'follow' a particular sportsball team. How is it that you become a 'fan' of one team versus another? I couldn't figure it out, because I know people follow teams where they have no geographical connection to the team, and in any case the people playing in the team are not from the place the team is named after, etc etc.

But even then, I asked because I was interested in finding out. I couldn't force myself to be interested in finding out if I wasn't.

I think you are misunderstanding me. A group of us have most years gathered for a football game watching/dinner once a year. I have never been particularly interested in watching football but I went to a lot of games in high school and even played pick up games with a small group, all <100 lbs of me. At this point in my life, I am philosophically opposed to football ( head injuries) but I still do the football gatherings. I like most of the people and enjoy the socializing. Sometimes I’m forced to pay a bit of attention to the actual game and I do so. I know just enough to ask an informed question or two or make an appropriate remark. It’s the polite thing to do. At no point do I claim to know much about the game or the teams. I refrain from mentioning the effects of concussions, etc.unless someone else brings it up. I’m interested in spending time with these people. I’m interested in what is going on in their lives. I’d be just as happy if there were no game on but there is. Hell I’ve gone to a pro football game or two as well as baseball and even MLS soccer. I could give a rat’s’ sss about any of the games but I enjoyed the company and the time out and even the game. I once went to a pro hockey game and had a great time watching the game.

I’m much more interested in going to a play or a concert or a museum or going in a hike by a factor of maybe a thousand. But not all of those lend themselves very well to conversation or eating bad for you snacks ((or a pretty nice pot luck meal). That’s not something I do with those friends, and certainly not 20 of them at once. I’m not feigning anything. I’m not pretending anything. I’m finding something about the situation or group or individual to be interested in and focusing on that. I’m not thinking about how much I dislike anyone’s politics or layered taco salad or football. I’m thinking about how good it is to gather with people, some of whom I don’t see very often and enjoying their company.

This can be done in a group setting or one on one. I was not particularly interested in my husband’s field of study but I’m interested in what it is that he finds interesting about the field. Over the years, I’ve learned a decent amount, enough to hold up my end of a conversation. I’ have actually developed a bit of an interest. And he’s learned something about biology and get this: we’ve figured out that there are some similar principles on each field.

To get back to the OP: what is really attractive is when someone is interested enough in YOU to listen to you talk about one of your nutty obsessions without eye rolling or judgement or derision. In other words: respect.

 

[Arctish]

No, you should not feign interest in something that doesn't interest you. You can be polite about it, though.

That's pretty much what I was thinking when I read your thread title. It's two words too long:

This week in feminism: The Hottest Thing a Man Can Do Is Not Be a Jerk About Astrology

 

[starwater]

I know when I was a kid, I tortured and killed small animals,

This explains a lot.

Wait, I’m still stuck on this little tid bit. Isn’t this a precursor to becoming a serial killer?

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I have no patience with astrology. Nor climate denial, anti-vaccination craziness, anti-fluoridation, scientology or flat earthism. Not by feminist or chauvinist male pigs or anybody. Sorry. For centuries, astrologer only knew several plants. Uranus, and Pluto were unknown to them, they did not seem to be noticed by astrologers as they affect our lives. They soon glommed onto Uranus and Pluto when these planets were discovered.

 

[Derec]

Guys, the issue isn't whether astrology is or is not to be taken seriously. It's about whether or not men should respect women who have interests that the men do not share or even find foolish.

I do not think one should respect people who really believe in something as mind-blowingly silly as astrology. Man or woman.

It is about whether or not men are wise to judge women for believing or pursuing an interest in something that they themselves do not believe and are not interested in.

What about men who believe in astrology? Should a woman not speak her mind about it or do you reserve that restriction only for men?

If you think that the devotion of some women to discussions about astrology is absurd and beyond the pale, please consider the on radio discussions of play by play Packers games by Packers fans.

Unlike astrology, Packers are real.
This is not about an interest one doesn't share. If a woman shows a great interest in dancing and singing competitions on TV, for example, and her guy did not, that would be more comparable to Packers fandom.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

I do not think one should respect people who really believe in something as mind-blowingly silly as astrology. Man or woman.


What about men who believe in astrology? Should a woman not speak her mind about it or do you reserve that restriction only for men?

If you think that the devotion of some women to discussions about astrology is absurd and beyond the pale, please consider the on radio discussions of play by play Packers games by Packers fans.

Unlike astrology, Packers are real.
This is not about an interest one doesn't share. If a woman shows a great interest in dancing and singing competitions on TV, for example, and her guy did not, that would be more comparable to Packers fandom.

Yeah, the devotion to astrology is more like going to church, praying, doing spells, things like that.

 

[Toni]

I do not think one should respect people who really believe in something as mind-blowingly silly as astrology. Man or woman.


What about men who believe in astrology? Should a woman not speak her mind about it or do you reserve that restriction only for men?

If you think that the devotion of some women to discussions about astrology is absurd and beyond the pale, please consider the on radio discussions of play by play Packers games by Packers fans.

Unlike astrology, Packers are real.
This is not about an interest one doesn't share. If a woman shows a great interest in dancing and singing competitions on TV, for example, and her guy did not, that would be more comparable to Packers fandom.

I realize that you do not live geographically near Packer Country: the obsession with the team and all minutia associated with every player and every play and potential play is well into obsession/fantasy land and no more reality based than astrology. Packers backers’ certainty that they could run the plays is every bit as delusional and obsessive as any devotee of astrology.

 

[Derec]

I realize that you do not live geographically near Packer Country: the obsession with the team and all minutia associated with every player and every play and potential play is well into obsession/fantasy land and no more reality based than astrology. Packers backers’ certainty that they could run the plays is every bit as delusional and obsessive as any devotee of astrology.

I do not have to live in Packers country to know that while Aaron Rogers can definitely throw his handegg a fair distance downfield, Mercury in retrograde is only an apparent motion and can't effect nor affect jack shit.

 

[Toni]

I realize that you do not live geographically near Packer Country: the obsession with the team and all minutia associated with every player and every play and potential play is well into obsession/fantasy land and no more reality based than astrology. Packers backers’ certainty that they could run the plays is every bit as delusional and obsessive as any devotee of astrology.

I do not have to live in Packers country to know that while Aaron Rogers can definitely throw his handegg a fair distance downfield, Mercury in retrograde is only an apparent motion and can't effect nor affect jack shit.
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Yeah, you have NO idea how obsessive Packer fans can be. It’s more than a religion.

Your analogy about a football player is on the same level as noting that Mercury is a planet in our solar system. And astrology had been around centuries longer than the Packers..

 

[J842P]

I wish I could say that I’m surprised that (some) men do not understand the difference between not sharing an interest in astrology (or knitting or gardening or (fill in the blank) and ridiculing women who are interested, but I can’t.

Anyone who is interested in astrology deserves ridicule. Man or woman.

 

[Jarhyn]

On the subject of astrology...

It's destructive to a relationship to dig too deeply over something that doesn't matter. It's looking for a fight.

Maybe she is wrong thinking about the extremeness of his actions as worse than they are, but it's still shitty. People need magic, To occasionally do things scandalous and illegal, to enjoy belief in nonsense.

The point is, they harm nobody in going about in this way. It adds spice and flavor to the rhythm of their existence.

As an honest wizard, my advice for listening to the stars is different from what you would hear from an astrologer insofar as I say ditch the little scrolls, find where you can pick up some postage, go on a trip, and actually try counting the Pleiades, put your eyes on Orion, see if you can locate the north star*, and then look between the stars at... Well, you'll see it if you actually take my advice.

Sounds like Metaphor has been reading Breitbart or whatever and not been out actually living life.

*Southern cross, Perhaps?

 

[J842P]

Guys, the issue isn't whether astrology is or is not to be taken seriously. It's about whether or not men should respect women who have interests that the men do not share or even find foolish.

It is about whether or not men are wise to judge women for believing or pursuing an interest in something that they themselves do not believe and are not interested in.

If you think that the devotion of some women to discussions about astrology is absurd and beyond the pale, please consider the on radio discussions of play by play Packers games by Packers fans. Or whatever your particular sport of interest is. Most women who are not similarly inclined to follow the Packers (and many, many ARE inclined to follow the Packers) do not enter into conversations with men to deride the male Packers' fans obsession. A few will but not smart ones. They make talk amongst themselves or amongst fellow non-devotees of the Packers about how stupid and obsessed Packers fans are but they don't do it at the dinner table with their Packers fan partner. Even I can feign interest in football (American or classic) and baseball and hockey. Surely you are all at least as smart as I am.

I think most sports are boring, even though it is stereotypically a male interest. I think knitting isn't particularly interesting, even though it is stereotypically female interest. Neither is particularly stupid. Astrology is profoundly stupid.

 

[J842P]

To get back to the OP: what is really attractive is when someone is interested enough in YOU to listen to you talk about one of your nutty obsessions without eye rolling or judgement or derision. In other words: respect.

People who believe in astrology do not deserve respect for that belief. It is nonsense, dangerously stupid nonsense.

 

[Jarhyn]

I mean really, should I just pull out a fucking MRA on an incel/blackpill site screaming about how women are holes and such whenever metaphor posts about a vaguely stupid feminist?

FSTDT is like, chock full of good examples. We have some TERFs there too.

 

[Toni]

I wish I could say that I’m surprised that (some) men do not understand the difference between not sharing an interest in astrology (or knitting or gardening or (fill in the blank) and ridiculing women who are interested, but I can’t.

Anyone who is interested in astrology deserves ridicule. Man or woman.

No more so than anyone obsessing over every play by the Packers.

 

[Toni]

Guys, the issue isn't whether astrology is or is not to be taken seriously. It's about whether or not men should respect women who have interests that the men do not share or even find foolish.

It is about whether or not men are wise to judge women for believing or pursuing an interest in something that they themselves do not believe and are not interested in.

If you think that the devotion of some women to discussions about astrology is absurd and beyond the pale, please consider the on radio discussions of play by play Packers games by Packers fans. Or whatever your particular sport of interest is. Most women who are not similarly inclined to follow the Packers (and many, many ARE inclined to follow the Packers) do not enter into conversations with men to deride the male Packers' fans obsession. A few will but not smart ones. They make talk amongst themselves or amongst fellow non-devotees of the Packers about how stupid and obsessed Packers fans are but they don't do it at the dinner table with their Packers fan partner. Even I can feign interest in football (American or classic) and baseball and hockey. Surely you are all at least as smart as I am.

I think most sports are boring, even though it is stereotypically a male interest. I think knitting isn't particularly interesting, even though it is stereotypically female interest. Neither is particularly stupid. Astrology is profoundly stupid.

Again, it's not whether or not YOU think astrology is stupid. It's about women finding attractive men who respect them enough to allow them their own interests, even if he thinks it's stupid. Because if you think women don't let men have their own stupid interests without ridiculing them for it, you're extremely naive.

 

[J842P]

I wish I could say that I’m surprised that (some) men do not understand the difference between not sharing an interest in astrology (or knitting or gardening or (fill in the blank) and ridiculing women who are interested, but I can’t.

Anyone who is interested in astrology deserves ridicule. Man or woman.

No more so than anyone obsessing over every play by the Packers.

No, obsessing over some sports team doesn't require profound stupidity. It is nowhere near the same level.

I dated a girl who was in to ice dancing, watched all the championships. I had no problem watching these things with her or talking to her about this, even though I'm wasn't particularly interested in ice dancing. That would be comparable, although, I actually agree with you that football is harmful so really much worse in that sense. But believing in astrology is akin to believing in the tooth fairy or Santa Claus as an adult. It signals profound stupidity. It isn't a mere interest in some activity. In fact, I am amazed you feel you need to defend it. I have found there are plenty of women who aren't morons, so I see no reason to respect something so stupid to "get dates".