Time To Get Rid Of The Death Penalty, Worldwide

[ideologyhunter]

We don't have the kind of justice system that can or will ever weed out the corrupting circumstances that lead to conviction of the innocent, among them:
> police and prosecutors pressured to convict somebody will seize on the "most convictable" guy they've got (read Adams Vs. Texas or see the documentary on it) and then use prison house snitches or accomplices to handcraft a case that has no other 'pure' or disinterested evidence
> unreliable witnesses, a rampant problem that has been studied fairly thoroughly
> ordinary prejudice, whether racial or otherwise
> the Plutocracy factor...look what OJ's money bought him. (The opposite of conviction of the innocent, but it leads to the supposition that an indigent client with an overworked public defender is really up against it.)
When a class of journalism students in Illinois can take on a class project of wrongful death penalty convictions and find case after case of provable incompetence and deceit... our death penalty history is hideous. The time to end it is overdue.

 

[Underseer]

I find it shocking that some countries still implement the death penalty. These are my reasons for objecting to it-

1) It's barbaric.

2) It's uncivilised.

3) The state should never have the power of life or death over it citizens.

4) It gives perpetrators of crime no actual punishment, ie, 30 years in a prison with a tough regime and time to reflect on what they have done.

5) Miscarriages of justice will happen.

6) It's just revenge.

7) Humans should have enough empathy with and compassion for another human being that would make killing one unthinkable.

8) In the US relatives of the victim watch on as the perpetrator is put to death. Whats that about? Its just nauseating.


In my view the death penalty shows a real lack of compassion and humanity in a society.

You just think that because you're so immoral. If you were moral like Muslims and Christians are, you would understand that executing criminals is more moral than letting them live when they clearly don't deserve it. You just think the way you do because you hate god and hate morality. I will pray for you. [/theist]

 

[West]

I find it shocking that some countries still implement the death penalty. These are my reasons for objecting to it-

1) It's barbaric.

2) It's uncivilised.

3) The state should never have the power of life or death over it citizens.

4) It gives perpetrators of crime no actual punishment, ie, 30 years in a prison with a tough regime and time to reflect on what they have done.

5) Miscarriages of justice will happen.

6) It's just revenge.

7) Humans should have enough empathy with and compassion for another human being that would make killing one unthinkable.

8) In the US relatives of the victim watch on as the perpetrator is put to death. Whats that about? Its just nauseating.


In my view the death penalty shows a real lack of compassion and humanity in a society.

I would say the right time for a death penalty is when someone has been either incarcerated humanely for public safety and escapes, or rejected incarceration here and been accepted by a foreign government and returns, or when no foreign government will take them. At some point people who are a danger and who seek to continue to be a danger, people who refuse to be polite and social, need to be removed from polite society. If they don't accept this action, then what other existence is there for them?

Imprisonment.

I'm sure most prisoners reject the idea of incarceration but the good thing is, they don't get a choice in the matter.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Are.prisoners given the.choice? Spending the rest of your life in solitary confinement or death.... I bet some would prefer death.

 

[West]

4) It gives perpetrators of crime no actual punishment, ie, 30 years in a prison with a tough regime and time to reflect on what they have done.

I don't know about this one, save for the individual that pleads guilty and wants to go fast. People sit on death row for I would guess fifteen years appealing. It must be agonizing. Which in itself is inhumane.

I suppose if mom took him out, that would be fair.

The US is not the only country that implements the death penalty.

China for example is one of the worst offenders and the killing is carried out not within 15 years, but within weeks or months of sentencing.

What makes it worse is that they still use death by firing squad for some of them.

 

[Underseer]

4) It gives perpetrators of crime no actual punishment, ie, 30 years in a prison with a tough regime and time to reflect on what they have done.

I don't know about this one, save for the individual that pleads guilty and wants to go fast. People sit on death row for I would guess fifteen years appealing. It must be agonizing. Which in itself is inhumane.

I suppose if mom took him out, that would be fair.

The US is not the only country that implements the death penalty.

China for example is one of the worst offenders and the killing is carried out not within 15 years, but within weeks or months of sentencing.

What makes it worse is that they still use death by firing squad for some of them.

Don't forget the Muslim countries! Lots and lots of Muslim countries have capital punishment.

 

[dystopian]

Are.prisoners given the.choice? Spending the rest of your life in solitary confinement or death.... I bet some would prefer death.

I see someone didn't read the thread. Even if some prefer death over solitary confinement; it doesn't *matter* since there's absolutely no reason why solitary confinement is necessary to begin with. There are plenty of ways to physically isolate a prisoner (to prevent harm) without solitary confinement and the psychological damage that does. So the whole "maybe some would prefer death over solitary confinement" thing is a complete non-argument.

 

[PyramidHead]

To which I would add, prisoners should have the option to commit suicide just like everybody else. Nothing about opposing the death penalty means we have to keep people from killing themselves.

 

[Archimedes]

What makes it worse is that they still use death by firing squad for some of them.

What's wrong with firing squad as a method of capital punishment compared with the other methods? Sounds like a relatively quick and painless way to execute someone.

 

[Jarhyn]

Much of the reason prisoners do to like being I prisoner is the retributivist attitude that we must make it suck to be a criminal. Punishment doesn't serve any public interest other than as one tool among many in the correction of bad behavior. If the behavior can't be corrected, it should be up to them as to whether they want to leave our country, die, be experimented on (to find ways to correct it), or be interned in an 'alternative community' where they present a danger only to other such persons but are provided an acceptable ability to have a reasonably high standard of living. If they reject those perfectly reasonable options, then why shouldn't we execute them?

 

[PyramidHead]

Much of the reason prisoners do to like being I prisoner is the retributivist attitude that we must make it suck to be a criminal. Punishment doesn't serve any public interest other than as one tool among many in the correction of bad behavior. If the behavior can't be corrected, it should be up to them as to whether they want to leave our country, die, be experimented on (to find ways to correct it), or be interned in an 'alternative community' where they present a danger only to other such persons but are provided an acceptable ability to have a reasonably high standard of living. If they reject those perfectly reasonable options, then why shouldn't we execute them?

Because in a civil society, intentionally ending someone else's life is never a matter of "why shouldn't we"? You have to do better than that and provide a positive reason.

 

[Jarhyn]

Sorry, but you missed an important clause there. You know, the one where I gave the person lots of other options. Like rehabilitation, exile, imprisonment, or donating himself to the potential good of others. What good is someone to our collective survival when they refuse to contribute to it in any way? I see it as little different tha. Putting down a rabid dog.

A person refuses civil society in every way, and then you expect that society to what, exactly? Let him parasitize and drag down society? Society is considerable to be civil when it looks after making its members survive and adapt more efficiently. Letting in members who do the opposite of that, or tolerating invasion by such persons, kind of defeats the point.

 

[PyramidHead]

If you're talking about assisting somebody who wants to die, I have no problem with that. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're saying. There is no positive benefit to killing criminals over incarcerating them. In some cases, there is no downside to killing them. Common sense says we should pick the option with the least risk of harming innocent people.

 

[Jarhyn]

If someone doesn't want to die, doesn't want to be denied the ability to be around people, and doesn't want to be denied the desire and will to abuse persons, if he doesn't want to be anything but a destructive problem, then my proposal is to remove the problem from existence.

If people are innocent, then it should be fairly easy to convince them to be rehabilitated and prove that they are not a risk to society.

In short if someone's only desire and will is to do the thing we must not let them, then they will have to tolerate anything we have to do to change that. In a very real way, we must kill who they are if they are someone who will only ever decide to be a problem.

 

[PyramidHead]

If someone doesn't want to die, doesn't want to be denied the ability to be around people, and doesn't want to be denied the desire and will to abuse persons, if he doesn't want to be anything but a destructive problem, then my proposal is to remove the problem from existence.

Why should any society take your proposal seriously? What benefits does it offer over incarceration for such people?

If people are innocent, then it should be fairly easy to convince them to be rehabilitated and prove that they are not a risk to society.

In short if someone's only desire and will is to do the thing we must not let them, then they will have to tolerate anything we have to do to change that. In a very real way, we must kill who they are if they are someone who will only ever decide to be a problem.

What happens if we don't kill them, and they just stay in a cell away from the rest of society until they die naturally or kill themselves? Will we be worse off as a society in any tangible way?

 

[credoconsolans]

An interesting thread. A couple of thoughts or questions:

1. What about the offender who is released and commits the same horrendous crime - such as rape of a child?
2. What about the offender who states blatantly that they enjoy doing what they did and would do it again - whether it be murder, rape, kidnapping, sexual molestation?
3. What would you do with an offender whom you physically observed doing obscene things to another human being or creature?

Would you want these people out in our society? If so, where? I certainly do not want them near me.

I honestly believe that some people are wired wrong, and cannot be rehabilitated. It costs an insane amount of money to incarcerate these people.

I agree with the death penalty being delivered - WHERE THERE IS NO SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT THE OFFENDER IS GUILTY.

I have read the stories of Mr X who was executed only to be exonerated later. Yes, mistakes happen. This is why the length of time an inmate is on Death Row is so extensively long.

As I stated - yes the Death Penalty should exist - WHEN THERE IS NOT DOUBT in anyone's mind that they have the right perpetrator.

Agree.

Some people are conscienceless. They're not going to grow one later in life. They are sick individuals who are never going to get any better. They are not an asset to a prison or to society in general. They are a waste of resources. I have no problem with execution of such heinous criminals.

 

[credoconsolans]

In short if someone's only desire and will is to do the thing we must not let them, then they will have to tolerate anything we have to do to change that. In a very real way, we must kill who they are if they are someone who will only ever decide to be a problem.

What happens if we don't kill them, and they just stay in a cell away from the rest of society until they die naturally or kill themselves? Will we be worse off as a society in any tangible way?

Why do people always forget the people who are guarding them? They are under risk too. You can google the number of rapes and murders inside prisons.

 

[PyramidHead]

In short if someone's only desire and will is to do the thing we must not let them, then they will have to tolerate anything we have to do to change that. In a very real way, we must kill who they are if they are someone who will only ever decide to be a problem.

What happens if we don't kill them, and they just stay in a cell away from the rest of society until they die naturally or kill themselves? Will we be worse off as a society in any tangible way?

Why do people always forget the people who are guarding them? They are under risk too. You can google the number of rapes and murders inside prisons.

There are ways to protect prison staff and other inmates from that sort of thing, short of killing the offender.

 

[Jarhyn]

In short if someone's only desire and will is to do the thing we must not let them, then they will have to tolerate anything we have to do to change that. In a very real way, we must kill who they are if they are someone who will only ever decide to be a problem.

What happens if we don't kill them, and they just stay in a cell away from the rest of society until they die naturally or kill themselves? Will we be worse off as a society in any tangible way?

Why do people always forget the people who are guarding them? They are under risk too. You can google the number of rapes and murders inside prisons.

Not to mention the opportunity cost caused by prisons. Electricity, land, work, resources, all of which are better spent in other ways. If people refuse to be corrected or controlled or of outright LEAVE, or if nobody will take them, I'd rather have another bed for a homeless person than a bed for a walking ball and chain on society's ankle.

 

[PyramidHead]

As I'm sure you're aware, the death penalty is a lot more expensive than imprisonment.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dea...57.2502j0j1&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=91&ie=UTF-8