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Time to scrap the fucking Electoral College!

Harry Bosch

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Hillary has so much working against her: Wikiputinleaks; the FBI, and etc. But now a scumbag elector has decided that he won't follow the rules and cast his vote for HRC:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/d3a1...ngton-state-elector-says-he-wont-vote-clinton

It's laughable that the only thing our government can do to this asshole is to fine him a $1,000.

I think that we need to scrap the EC. It's too archaic. It relies on individuals to make the correct decision. I think that we should elect the president who gets the most votes. Period.
 
A Sanders supporter that would help Trump win an election he lost?! What an ass!


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I doubt that the Electoral College is going anywhere. I don't think that you can convince 3/4 of the state legislatures to agree with abolishing it. Those small red states in the middle of the country would likely refuse to ratify such an amendment, even if it could get the 2/3 votes in both the House & Senate.

As for the faithless elector, if he's the only one from a state won by Clinton, it would only matter if HRC's electoral vote is 269 without him. I do think it's wrong for him to deviate from his state's vote, but it may not matter if HRC can get 270 without him.
 
I doubt that the Electoral College is going anywhere. I don't think that you can convince 3/4 of the state legislatures to agree with abolishing it. Those small red states in the middle of the country would likely refuse to ratify such an amendment, even if it could get the 2/3 votes in both the House & Senate.

As for the faithless elector, if he's the only one from a state won by Clinton, it would only matter if HRC's electoral vote is 269 without him. I do think it's wrong for him to deviate from his state's vote, but it may not matter if HRC can get 270 without him.

Well, there is a real legitimate chance that HRC will only get to 269 (assuming that the elector doesn't pledge to HRC).
 
I doubt that the Electoral College is going anywhere. I don't think that you can convince 3/4 of the state legislatures to agree with abolishing it. Those small red states in the middle of the country would likely refuse to ratify such an amendment, even if it could get the 2/3 votes in both the House & Senate.

As for the faithless elector, if he's the only one from a state won by Clinton, it would only matter if HRC's electoral vote is 269 without him. I do think it's wrong for him to deviate from his state's vote, but it may not matter if HRC can get 270 without him.

Well, there is a real legitimate chance that HRC will only get to 269 (assuming that the elector doesn't pledge to HRC).

I agree. The worst thing is that that faithless elector would throw the race into the House of Representatives and essentially give the election to Trump, even though HRC would have won otherwise. If she gets to at least 271, and there are no other faithless electors that should go towards her total count then this guy shouldn't matter. One thing is for sure, the Democratic party should give whatever their equivalent of excommunication is to him for violating this public trust.

The only way I can think of to fix that, which would require a constitutional amendment to make sure all the states comply, is to allocate the electoral votes automatically based on the state's law w/r/t how electors are seated. For most states that's winner take all. For ME & NE that's 2 EV for carrying the state and 1 for each district. The smaller states may get on board with that since it doesn't dilute their influence and gets rid of the possibility of faithless electors.
 
It just makes sense to go with straight majority vote -- especially considering the two (isn't it?) Presidential elections where victory went to the loser of the popular vote. It gave us Bush Two -- that's reason enough. It pains me to think that if my state, Ohio, goes for the Skidmark (DJT), then my vote for President is effectively meaningless.
 
I read this recently and found it interesting:

The Founding Fathers Did Not Trust You: The Electoral College (Part 1)


The Founding Fathers Did Not Trust You: The Electoral College (Part 2)


Every four years Americans rediscover the Electoral College, and every four years there are anguished calls to get rid of it because it is undemocratic because it sits athwart the will of the people like some giant boulder in the path of democracy, limiting the ability of the Common Man (and, since 1920, the Common Woman) to select the leader of their choice.

To which the Founding Fathers would have responded, “And?”
 
It just makes sense to go with straight majority vote -- especially considering the two (isn't it?) Presidential elections where victory went to the loser of the popular vote. It gave us Bush Two -- that's reason enough. It pains me to think that if my state, Ohio, goes for the Skidmark (DJT), then my vote for President is effectively meaningless.

More than that. John Quincy Adams didn't get the most votes in either the popular vote OR the electoral college. Andrew Jackson got the most votes in both the popular vote & the electoral college, but Jackson didn't get a majority and it was decided in the House of Representatives in Adams favor.

Rutherford B. Hayes lost the popular vote to Samuel Tilden. There were 20 disputed Electoral votes from 3 states, South Carolina, Louisiana, and Florida. It was ultimately resolved with Hayes getting one more Electoral vote than Tilden. To resolve this dispute he agreed to end Reconstruction and not run for a second term.

Benjamin Harrison lost the popular vote to Grover Cleveland but won the electoral college. Cleveland came back four years later and won. Cleveland is the only U.S. president to serve 2 non-consecutive terms.

We all know about 2000 and Florida.
 
You know what is even more fun than the electoral college? Having the Florida recount performed on a nation-wide scale.

Don't worry. Electronic voting machines don't allow for recounts. You just have to accept the results Putin gives you.
 
Hillary has so much working against her: Wikiputinleaks; the FBI, and etc. But now a scumbag elector has decided that he won't follow the rules and cast his vote for HRC:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/d3a1...ngton-state-elector-says-he-wont-vote-clinton

It's laughable that the only thing our government can do to this asshole is to fine him a $1,000.

I think that we need to scrap the EC. It's too archaic. It relies on individuals to make the correct decision. I think that we should elect the president who gets the most votes. Period.
What dealt drive things is that Clinton losses the popular vote but some the electrol college vote. Trump and his followers went to crazy and demand the end of the electrol college.
 
I just watched a discussion of the "National Popular Vote Compact", which is an attempt to keep, but circumvent, the Electoral College. Ten states and DC have already passed this. I had no idea.

http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation

One major drawback of switching to popular vote would be the concentration of campaign resources in high-population areas. Low-population states might never see the candidates.

I wonder if some hybrid of the two is possible.
 
Another way to deal with the flaw of the electoral college is to simply increase the members of the House of Representatives into a number that more accurately represents the public. The number has been frozen for decades when there is nothing in the constitution fixing that number. We could easily double the number of Reps, and that would make the House look more like those it represents.

Since the EC is determined by the number of Reps and Sens, that would also bring about needed EC reform.
 
Another way to deal with the flaw of the electoral college is to simply increase the members of the House of Representatives into a number that more accurately represents the public. The number has been frozen for decades when there is nothing in the constitution fixing that number. We could easily double the number of Reps, and that would make the House look more like those it represents.

Since the EC is determined by the number of Reps and Sens, that would also bring about needed EC reform.
Since House seats and Electoral College votes are allocated based on population (i.e. the proportions won't change), how would that fix anything?
 
Another way to deal with the flaw of the electoral college is to simply increase the members of the House of Representatives into a number that more accurately represents the public. The number has been frozen for decades when there is nothing in the constitution fixing that number. We could easily double the number of Reps, and that would make the House look more like those it represents.

Since the EC is determined by the number of Reps and Sens, that would also bring about needed EC reform.
Since House seats and Electoral College votes are allocated based on population (i.e. the proportions won't change), how would that fix anything?

Because actually the proportions will change somewhat. Right now we have a situation where every time one state gains a rep another one loses a rep. The proportions would change to match the population more closely.
 
The problem with the National Popular Vote Compact, is how do you enforce it? What happens if one or more of the states that agrees to this, reneges because their citizens voted for the candidate that lost the popular vote?
 
The problem with the National Popular Vote Compact, is how do you enforce it? What happens if one or more of the states that agrees to this, reneges because their citizens voted for the candidate that lost the popular vote?

It can't be enforced.

Even the current convention - of electors respecting the majority vote in each state - cannot be enforced.

As far as I am aware, the states are not under any obligation to consider public opinion, nor to allow citizens a vote, when selecting their electors. That they do is mere convention - people have become used to the idea that they poll the voting public, and allocate the electors from the slate endorsed by the party that receives the largest share of the popular vote; But they could equally well simply have the Governor pick electors from his biggest campaign contributors; or select them by throwing darts at the capital city telephone directory. The constitution sets out a handful of things they may NOT do when deciding who will be their EC electors; But it is silent on the need to consult the public at large.

Not only do the states have no obligation to have their electors selected by the party with majority public support; Those electors have no obligation to support the party that selected them (or any other party or candidate). Faithless electors exist, and there is no legal sanction that can be taken against them; The worst that can happen is for the party that nominated them this time around to decline to do so at the next election. But they be sacked, nor can their decision be overturned.

The 538 members of the electoral college have completely free reign to select any qualified persons* as POTUS and VP, without regard to any opinions other than their own. If 270 or more of them want to make Loren Pechtel the President, then this board would have to find someone else to make the largest number of posts, because LP would be rather busy. I for one would be interested to read about his wife's experiences when redecorating the White House. It doesn't matter whether or not he is running; The EC can select him anyway, if they think he is the best American for the job.

The system for electing a President is deliberately and purposely designed to be undemocratic; The assumption being that the people will sometimes pick someone wholly unsuitable, at which point the wiser counsels of the electoral college can overrule their dumb mistake and put a more suitable person in instead.





*Literally ANY natural born US citizen over 35 years of age and who has been resident in the US for 15 years, and who has not already served as POTUS for two terms, could be selected. All they need is the support of 270 or more electors. That's it.
 
Totally agree Bilby, that's why I cannot support the natl. popular vote compact. I think states will renege on it if it's in their interests. I also think you're right about all the other things you mention in your post.
 
Hillary has so much working against her: Wikiputinleaks; the FBI, and etc. But now a scumbag elector has decided that he won't follow the rules and cast his vote for HRC:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/d3a1...ngton-state-elector-says-he-wont-vote-clinton

It's laughable that the only thing our government can do to this asshole is to fine him a $1,000.

I think that we need to scrap the EC. It's too archaic. It relies on individuals to make the correct decision. I think that we should elect the president who gets the most votes. Period.

Any system which for whatever reason does not allow the electorate to vote directly for the candidates will inhibit the democratic process to that degree. Europe has proportional representation while the UK allows candidates to stand for individual seats but not proportional representation which some wish to change to allow the percentage of votes and not just seats to determine representation in parliament.

What is the use of the electoral college anyway. I looks like tits on a boar hog as I can't see why this would be useful.
 
Instead,get rid of the stupid first Tuesday in November election day.When 98% lived on farms and Saturday was market day and Sunday was church.Monday was travel day to the county seat to vote.Harvest was over,time to give thanks.Fuck tradition!
 
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