Tipping Culture

[Jolly_Penguin]

Having lived for a length of time in both Canada and Japan, I find the culture surrounding tipping service people to be bad in both places, for opposite reasons.

A tip should be a show of appreciation for a service person going above and beyond what is expected. It should be a special thank you. It should never be expected and nor should it be seen as insulting.

In Canada, tipping has reached the point that it is expected, and some places even build it into the bill. In Japan, tipping is considered insulting as it causes the service person to "lose face". if you do it, you need to do it quietly and discreetly, and often it will be refused. Quite a shocking difference if you live in the one culture and visit the other (aside from expensive touristy hotels).

What is the culture on tipping where you come from? Is it different from the above two?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think it's horrible. The employees should be paid a regular wage and the price of that wage should be built into the cost of the food.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I think it's horrible. The employees should be paid a regular wage and the price of that wage should be built into the cost of the food.

Absolutely.

 

[Terrell]

I think it's horrible. The employees should be paid a regular wage and the price of that wage should be built into the cost of the food.

Agreed. Tipping is expected here as well. On receipts, when paying by credit or debit card, there's often a spot to write in the tip that will be charged to your card. When I tip I usually put 0 on the receipt & give the waitress, driver, etc. cash.

 

[TSwizzle]

I'm ambivalent about it. In California a minimum 15% tip is expected. But if your party is six or more people, the restaurant automatically adds 18% to the bill. That's a bit of a nerve. However, if I get crap service, I do enjoy sending a message by not tipping or tipping a lot less than 15%. I did that in a restaurant to a server that had a shitty attitude and she actually had the nerve to call me out on it ! All things considered, I think it would be better to do way with tipping. Tipping someone for doing their job seems odd. And get rid of that "tip jar" on the counter at take out places while we are at it.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

However, if I get crap service, I do enjoy sending a message by not tipping or tipping a lot less than 15%.

That's an interesting point, and something that you couldn't do in Japan, where tipping is not expected and is usually discouraged.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Friendly service and all that which leads to better tips really should be part of the job. There shouldn't be an expectation to pay people more simply to do what's required of them. If they do a poor job and you're not happy with the service, your response should be to go to a different restaurant in the future and have the economic impact fall upon the owner as opposed to upon the employee.

 

[Rhea]

I think it's horrible. The employees should be paid a regular wage and the price of that wage should be built into the cost of the food.

Agreed. Tip culture is servant culture.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

This thread idea popped into my head because I recently had an amazing cleaning lady at a very lowly 2 star hotel in Osaka. She cleaned the place up like it was a 5 star hotel and I know she must have spend hours doing so, in shocking contrast to what I experienced everywhere else. I left her a tip hidden under the pillow along with a thank you post it note, where I knew she would find it but the hotel managers would not think to look. She folded it and put it neatly back where I had left it, having written "I just do my job sir".

 

[Elixir]

My wife doesn't speak (or read) Spanish whatsoever.
We were at a hotel in Cozumel, where the maid was incredible... at some point Mrs Elixir asked me what the "NO MOLESTE" door tag meant. I told here it was to keep the maid from barging in at an inopportune time.
Anyhow, next day we left for the day. When we returned to our freshly cleaned room, I saw some bills - a few ones and a fiver - on a bureau , with a note under it. Of course I wondered whatthehell THAT was, so I read the note:
"MOLESTE"
Mrs. Elixir had been trying to leave the maid a tip, and had gleaned from my explanation of the door tag that "moleste" meant maid.
I about died laughing, then had to cry for the poor maid, who surely saw that and obviously wasn't going to touch it for fear of her life.
I still get a kick out of that whenever I leave a tip for a hotel worker...

 

[bleubird]

https://medium.com/@alicheaib/the-racist-history-of-tipping-83247ecdc1b7
Did you all know this?

 

[Derec]

My wife doesn't speak (or read) Spanish whatsoever.
We were at a hotel in Cozumel, where the maid was incredible... at some point Mrs Elixir asked me what the "NO MOLESTE" door tag meant. I told here it was to keep the maid from barging in at an inopportune time.
Anyhow, next day we left for the day. When we returned to our freshly cleaned room, I saw some bills - a few ones and a fiver - on a bureau , with a note under it. Of course I wondered whatthehell THAT was, so I read the note:
"MOLESTE"
Mrs. Elixir had been trying to leave the maid a tip, and had gleaned from my explanation of the door tag that "moleste" meant maid.
I about died laughing, then had to cry for the poor maid, who surely saw that and obviously wasn't going to touch it for fear of her life.
I still get a kick out of that whenever I leave a tip for a hotel worker...

Funny story Elixir.
Is Mrs. Elixir a native English speaker? If so, I wonder why she didn't make a connection between "moleste" and English "molest" (they both go back to a Latin root that means "annoy") and then to the "do not disturb" signs?

 

[Derec]

No thread on tipping is complete without this:


Mr. Pink makes some good points, esp. about how in some restaurants tipping is expected but not in others, like fast food.

Also, the standard back then (early 90s) was 12%. Then came 15% and it's 18 or even 20% now. Why this tipping inflation? Regular inflation raises base price of a meal and thus the tip the waitress gets. So why "double dip" by inflating the tipping percentage as well? Seems shady.

- - - Updated - - -

https://medium.com/@alicheaib/the-racist-history-of-tipping-83247ecdc1b7
Did you all know this?

The website doesn't load, but, of course, these days pretty much everything is considered "racist".

 

[Toni]

I'm ambivalent about it. In California a minimum 15% tip is expected. But if your party is six or more people, the restaurant automatically adds 18% to the bill. That's a bit of a nerve. However, if I get crap service, I do enjoy sending a message by not tipping or tipping a lot less than 15%. I did that in a restaurant to a server that had a shitty attitude and she actually had the nerve to call me out on it ! All things considered, I think it would be better to do way with tipping. Tipping someone for doing their job seems odd. And get rid of that "tip jar" on the counter at take out places while we are at it.

At various times, a couple of my offspring have worked as waitstaff. They came to dread large tables because it inevitably caused a great deal of extra work, more than the same number of people at separate tables. That would be a justifiable reason for an establishment to charge extra for a large table: proportionally more work for the server.

Something else to consider: in many eating establishments, it is the custom for waitstaff to tip out table bussers, host/hostess and kitchen staff.

When my kids were small, I made a huge point to tip especially well when we were out together, although my kids were pretty well behaved. Even so, I knew and appreciated that it was extra work to clean up after a table with small children.

 

[Derec]

At various times, a couple of my offspring have worked as waitstaff. They came to dread large tables because it inevitably caused a great deal of extra work, more than the same number of people at separate tables. That would be a justifiable reason for an establishment to charge extra for a large table: proportionally more work for the server.

If it's proportionately more work for the server, there is no reason to increase the tip percentage. A larger party will have a larger check and thus the tip will be bigger proportional to the check amount.

Did you mean "disproportionately"? I think it's the opposite. It's less work (per guest) to wait on a larger table because of economies of scale. It takes less time to wipe one large table than three or four separate tables. You can bring all drink orders in one go instead of going to individual tables. It's easy to refill sweet tea from pitcher around the table. And so on. The effort increases sublineraly with party size (maybe square root of N^2/3 or even ln(N) ...) with number of guests N at a table.

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

I'm ambivalent about it. In California a minimum 15% tip is expected. But if your party is six or more people, the restaurant automatically adds 18% to the bill. That's a bit of a nerve. However, if I get crap service, I do enjoy sending a message by not tipping or tipping a lot less than 15%. I did that in a restaurant to a server that had a shitty attitude and she actually had the nerve to call me out on it ! All things considered, I think it would be better to do way with tipping. Tipping someone for doing their job seems odd. And get rid of that "tip jar" on the counter at take out places while we are at it.

Why would anyone 'enjoy' conferring a miserable outcome onto someone else? If they don't deserve a tip, then don't tip - and continue your ambivalence about the whole thing. No need for the mustache twirling.

aa

 

[fast]

This topic brings out the worst in me.

 

[ZiprHead]

I just found out last week my niece is getting a tipped wage working at a Dairy Queen (a fast food restaurant for those not familiar). The employees asked if they could put out a tip jar and the manager said no. No one expects a fast food worker to be in a tipped wage position so the employees almost never get tips.

 

[Ford]

Friendly service and all that which leads to better tips really should be part of the job. There shouldn't be an expectation to pay people more simply to do what's required of them. If they do a poor job and you're not happy with the service, your response should be to go to a different restaurant in the future and have the economic impact fall upon the owner as opposed to upon the employee.

And the thing is (speaking as someone who has worked pretty much every job in a restaurant) that service is dependent on many factors that are out of the tipped employee's control. You can be the best, most friendliest waiter, but if the dishwasher turns out dirty silverware or the prep cook drops a hair in the sauce or the line cook overcooks your steak it is you that gets your pay docked... not them.

Waiting tables is at some level fundamentally a sales job, and your tips are commission. But imagine if you're a car salesman, every car you sold was assembled on the spot, and any mechanical problems were suddenly your fault. That's insane. But that's the life of a tipped employee. Your wages are dependent on other people who don't suffer directly if they put out shoddy work.

 

[Toni]

At various times, a couple of my offspring have worked as waitstaff. They came to dread large tables because it inevitably caused a great deal of extra work, more than the same number of people at separate tables. That would be a justifiable reason for an establishment to charge extra for a large table: proportionally more work for the server.

If it's proportionately more work for the server, there is no reason to increase the tip percentage. A larger party will have a larger check and thus the tip will be bigger proportional to the check amount.

Did you mean "disproportionately"? I think it's the opposite. It's less work (per guest) to wait on a larger table because of economies of scale. It takes less time to wipe one large table than three or four separate tables. You can bring all drink orders in one go instead of going to individual tables. It's easy to refill sweet tea from pitcher around the table. And so on. The effort increases sublineraly with party size (maybe square root of N^2/3 or even ln(N) ...) with number of guests N at a table.

Yes: dispropotionately is what I meant to type. Group dynamics come into play, not all table companions arrive at the same time, there frequently are more inthe group than indicated at the time of the reservation—or half the party does not arrive, but two or more tables have been tied up( pushed together) meaning other diners are not served, and oh, yeah, late comers arrive just before dessert and want their entire order instantaneously, the waitstaff must try to keep everybody happy even though some are at apppetizers and others are at dessert and and coffee and half the table is drinking too heavily and everybody assumes someone else tipped so they didn’t need to.

Your little thought exercise demonstrates you have never waited tables.