Transphobia in Miami

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

All's I want to know is if it is contagious. Can I catch trans from somebody?

Not quite, but you can get TRANSPHOBIA from a computer virus. The viruses normally get you if you go to right-wing sites.

 

[Keith&Co.]

All's I want to know is if it is contagious. Can I catch trans from somebody?

Not quite, but you can get TRANSPHOBIA from a computer virus. The viruses normally get you if you go to right-wing sites.

Yes. To paraphrase Stephen Fry, transexuals do not try to convince other people to become transexuals. Transphobes, however, do tend to try to recruit other transphobes.

 

[Trausti]

All's I want to know is if it is contagious. Can I catch trans from somebody?

It's more like magic. If you want to be a "body positive" black female, you can just by saying it. As long as you stay in character. But once you break character, we're back to reality.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

No. Thank you.

Because it proves your position wrong.

Or because you transparently keep trying to reframe the conversation to move it further and further away from what transgender people are actually saying or advocating for.

But let me pose a hypothetical for you:

If a magistrate puts a puppy up his butt, would you still agree that biscuits and gravy are carriages? You can't answer, can you? Because deep down you know gravy is arson.

The difference between what I just asked and the hypotheticals you present is only that you use words from the conversation at hand to make it seem like your query was relevant. But it's purely cosmetic. In truth, you actually just jam disparate concepts together in incoherent concoctions while circling back to the conclusion you began with. When you don't bother with valid premises or internal consistency, you can always cheat your way back to where you were going.

If someone bites, you keep the bit going by increasing the nonsense and bringing us further from the topic at hand. If they brush you off, you act victorious as if your challenge was so immaculate it silenced the opposition who now flees in intellectual cowardice.

It's a funny show, but the act does get tired eventually. I imagine at one point people may have humoured you on the chance you were just bad at forming arguments. I wonder if now you are at most an itch people sometimes feel a need to scratch, or an amusing minor distraction.

I'd like to think I'm just making this ejaculatory post for my own amusement, but I'm sure you see through it. Really I'm just deeply afraid to let you shatter my world and reveal my life as a lie with your deeply challenging and insightful inquiries, amirite?

 

[Half-Life]

No. Thank you.

Because it proves your position wrong.

Proves WHAT wrong?
Two of us asked why YOU give a shit if a person does or does not have a penis.

That's a question, not a position.

And you 'walk the dog' fantsy requires people accomodate the dog's desires.
If your boss announced tomorrow that they are in transition, to become the opposite sex, what do you have to do differently?

At the same time, what if your boss has been cross dressing in secret for the last twenty years? Tomorrow, they tire of hiding and reveal their true gender. What do you have to do differently now?

I'd have to walk on eggshells if my boss announced he was going to become a woman, Keith. Anything I say can be used against me if he doesn't like it. "Oh, you're only saying x because I'm trans, you bigot!"

Same as how if you call an idea a "dumb idea" and it just so happens to be thought of by a woman and they say, "You only hate my idea because I'm a woman, you bigot!"

We live in the age where certain groups of people get certain privileges just for being part of that group. That is not equality. People should not have to walk on eggshells around others for fear of being called racist, sexist, mysoginist, or whatever other name.

 

[Half-Life]

No. Thank you.

Because it proves your position wrong.

Or because you transparently keep trying to reframe the conversation to move it further and further away from what transgender people are actually saying or advocating for.

But let me pose a hypothetical for you:

If a magistrate puts a puppy up his butt, would you still agree that biscuits and gravy are carriages? You can't answer, can you? Because deep down you know gravy is arson.

The difference between what I just asked and the hypotheticals you present is only that you use words from the conversation at hand to make it seem like your query was relevant. But it's purely cosmetic. In truth, you actually just jam disparate concepts together in incoherent concoctions while circling back to the conclusion you began with. When you don't bother with valid premises or internal consistency, you can always cheat your way back to where you were going.

If someone bites, you keep the bit going by increasing the nonsense and bringing us further from the topic at hand. If they brush you off, you act victorious as if your challenge was so immaculate it silenced the opposition who now flees in intellectual cowardice.

It's a funny show, but the act does get tired eventually. I imagine at one point people may have humoured you on the chance you were just bad at forming arguments. I wonder if now you are at most an itch people sometimes feel a need to scratch, or an amusing minor distraction.

I'd like to think I'm just making this ejaculatory post for my own amusement, but I'm sure you see through it. Really I'm just deeply afraid to let you shatter my world and reveal my life as a lie with your deeply challenging and insightful inquiries, amirite?

There is no bit that I am doing. And I truly do not understand your question. Are you making a nonsense question on purpose?

I don't believe my question was nonsense. As I have said multiple times, I have no problem with people dressing or acting however they want. But, you are not a different gender because of it! Can't you see there is a difference between gender and gender norms/expectations/roles? It is my belief that the trans community equates the "gender norms" to "gender," which is simply wrong. It's not a bad thing that this is wrong. I am simply pointing out that they are not abiding by the traditional stereotypical gender norms. It does not mean they are a different gender.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Or because you transparently keep trying to reframe the conversation to move it further and further away from what transgender people are actually saying or advocating for.

But let me pose a hypothetical for you:

If a magistrate puts a puppy up his butt, would you still agree that biscuits and gravy are carriages? You can't answer, can you? Because deep down you know gravy is arson.

The difference between what I just asked and the hypotheticals you present is only that you use words from the conversation at hand to make it seem like your query was relevant. But it's purely cosmetic. In truth, you actually just jam disparate concepts together in incoherent concoctions while circling back to the conclusion you began with. When you don't bother with valid premises or internal consistency, you can always cheat your way back to where you were going.

If someone bites, you keep the bit going by increasing the nonsense and bringing us further from the topic at hand. If they brush you off, you act victorious as if your challenge was so immaculate it silenced the opposition who now flees in intellectual cowardice.

It's a funny show, but the act does get tired eventually. I imagine at one point people may have humoured you on the chance you were just bad at forming arguments. I wonder if now you are at most an itch people sometimes feel a need to scratch, or an amusing minor distraction.

I'd like to think I'm just making this ejaculatory post for my own amusement, but I'm sure you see through it. Really I'm just deeply afraid to let you shatter my world and reveal my life as a lie with your deeply challenging and insightful inquiries, amirite?

There is no bit that I am doing. And I truly do not understand your question. Are you making a nonsense question on purpose?

I don't believe my question was nonsense. As I have said multiple times, I have no problem with people dressing or acting however they want. But, you are not a different gender because of it! Can't you see there is a difference between gender and gender norms/expectations/roles? It is my belief that the trans community equates the "gender norms" to "gender," which is simply wrong. It's not a bad thing that this is wrong. I am simply pointing out that they are not abiding by the traditional stereotypical gender norms. It does not mean they are a different gender.

Can't you just cislax?

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

Do they want to get you fired for that? Do they want to make it mandatory under penalty of law?

When I'm at work, don't fucking harass me, including with some passive-agressive bs about what you* believe I should be called with regard to my gender. That largely covers it for me. Admittedly, some go much further, but I'm really not out of the ordinary. I generally want to go about my own life without much fuss--to not be bothered by others when I go about my own business and to not bother others when they go about theirs as much as possible.

*General 'you' and not necessarily you specifically.

Say "please use this pronoun" and I'll be happy to do so. Say "you must or else" and I'm more likely to do otherwise.

Personally, I am not asking you to be called what I am called as if you are doing me a favour. You aren't. It's not quid pro quo. At work, or if I am receiving some form of professional or governmental service from you, I won't be called what I am not. How you manage that is on you in the event I haven't placated your need for me to ask for something you get to take for granted. On social media such as twitter, I won't be the one to report you for violating a policy on pronouns. Indeed, in, most circumstances I have no interest in interfering much with what you say. Maybe I will say something back. Maybe I'll decide our interactions just aren't worth the bother to continue with, which is unlikely to be much of a loss for either of us.


Hope that clarifies at least as far as I am concerned.

For the sake of your etiquette protocols, no need to ask me to please use your pronouns. Even without making it a request, I will use the pronouns of your preference with the exception of transparently disingenuous pronouns.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

I don't believe my question was nonsense.

Sadly, I believe you.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Proves WHAT wrong?
Two of us asked why YOU give a shit if a person does or does not have a penis.

That's a question, not a position.

And you 'walk the dog' fantsy requires people accomodate the dog's desires.
If your boss announced tomorrow that they are in transition, to become the opposite sex, what do you have to do differently?

At the same time, what if your boss has been cross dressing in secret for the last twenty years? Tomorrow, they tire of hiding and reveal their true gender. What do you have to do differently now?

I'd have to walk on eggshells if my boss announced he was going to become a woman, Keith. Anything I say can be used against me if he doesn't like it. "Oh, you're only saying x because I'm trans, you bigot!"

so, you typically say bigoted things around your boss?

Same as how if you call an idea a "dumb idea" and it just so happens to be thought of by a woman and they say, "You only hate my idea because I'm a woman, you bigot!"

Ah. So, it's not transexuals you have a problem with, it's women in general.

We live in the age where certain groups of people get certain privileges just for being part of that group. That is not equality. People should not have to walk on eggshells around others for fear of being called racist, sexist, mysoginist, or whatever other name.

I'm not asking about equality. I'm asking how someone being trans affects you. You, personally. All i see is misogynistic paranoia.
You worry about YOU being held responsible for talking like a dumbass around women, because guys apparently give you a pass?

You don't think there are men who'd point out your bigotry?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

It isn't a matter of etiquette when they try to make it mandatory.

Well, yeah, for you it is.
Pretty funny, really.
THEY are adamant about how you address them, YOU are adamant about how they ask you. Both of you standing on your dignity like that.

You really see no difference between mandates and etiquette?

 

[Keith&Co.]

It isn't a matter of etiquette when they try to make it mandatory.

Well, yeah, for you it is.
Pretty funny, really.
THEY are adamant about how you address them, YOU are adamant about how they ask you. Both of you standing on your dignity like that.

You really see no difference between mandates and etiquette?

As i pointed out above, i have been in situations where 'proper' terms of address were literally mandated. Uniform Code of Military Justice, for example.
Functionally, there is no great difference in using a pronoun based on their request, social custom, or mandatory rule.
Why you pick this hill to die on seems childish, to me.

But, at least it's more adult than Halfie, who would deny free expression to all transexuals just so he doesn't have to learn how to behave among grownups.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

You really see no difference between mandates and etiquette?

As i pointed out above, i have been in situations where 'proper' terms of address were literally mandated. Uniform Code of Military Justice, for example.
Functionally, there is no great difference in using a pronoun based on their request, social custom, or mandatory rule.
Why you pick this hill to die on seems childish, to me.

But, at least it's more adult than Halfie, who would deny free expression to all transexuals just so he doesn't have to learn how to behave among grownups.

It was admitted that my other examples were valid. Freedom of speech means not only you cannot be censored it means you cannot be compelled. Of course you bring up the UCMJ which is a very special example, but civilians aren't covered by it. This isn't etiquette, this is compelled speech. Why you picked this hill to die on seems childish, to me.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

It was admitted that my other examples were valid. Freedom of speech means not only you cannot be censored it means you cannot be compelled. Of course you bring up the UCMJ which is a very special example, but civilians aren't covered by it. This isn't etiquette, this is compelled speech. Why you picked this hill to die on seems childish, to me.

What is 'compelled speech'? Different jurisdictions have different statutes. Different organizations have different policies. To which are you referring?

 

[Jarhyn]

It was admitted that my other examples were valid. Freedom of speech means not only you cannot be censored it means you cannot be compelled. Of course you bring up the UCMJ which is a very special example, but civilians aren't covered by it. This isn't etiquette, this is compelled speech. Why you picked this hill to die on seems childish, to me.

What is 'compelled speech'? Different jurisdictions have different statutes. Different organizations have different policies. To which are you referring?

I think he's referring to the fact that he is being compelled, at gunpoint, by the government, to call people with penises 'she/her".. oh, wait... HE ISN'T. So it isn't compelled speech and he's just whining that anyone has the gall to ask and even expect him to actually have some etiquette.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

It was admitted that my other examples were valid. Freedom of speech means not only you cannot be censored it means you cannot be compelled. Of course you bring up the UCMJ which is a very special example, but civilians aren't covered by it. This isn't etiquette, this is compelled speech. Why you picked this hill to die on seems childish, to me.

What is 'compelled speech'? Different jurisdictions have different statutes. Different organizations have different policies. To which are you referring?

I think he's referring to the fact that he is being compelled, at gunpoint, by the government, to call people with penises 'she/her".. oh, wait... HE ISN'T. So it isn't compelled speech and he's just whining that anyone has the gall to ask and even expect him to actually have some etiquette.

I suppose my curiosity is if he is just parroting Peterson or the like, or if there was some critical thought and analysis of an actual policy in there somewhere. Admittedly, I'm mostly familiar with legislation within Canadian jurisdictions where we don't bother with the guns--we just sentence them to Canadian exile (which is a lot like ordinary life, except the entire population is barred from saying 'sorry' to you, as is our way).

 

[Half-Life]

It was admitted that my other examples were valid. Freedom of speech means not only you cannot be censored it means you cannot be compelled. Of course you bring up the UCMJ which is a very special example, but civilians aren't covered by it. This isn't etiquette, this is compelled speech. Why you picked this hill to die on seems childish, to me.

What is 'compelled speech'? Different jurisdictions have different statutes. Different organizations have different policies. To which are you referring?

I think he's referring to the fact that he is being compelled, at gunpoint, by the government, to call people with penises 'she/her".. oh, wait... HE ISN'T. So it isn't compelled speech and he's just whining that anyone has the gall to ask and even expect him to actually have some etiquette.

Actually, if you refuse to call a person by their pronoun, for example a man wants to be called she, and you refer to him as "he" all the time every day in every instance, you can be charged with a hate crime. We are not talking about someone who calls the man a "he" and then gets corrected and they apologize and start calling the man a she.

We are talking about if you don't believe the man is a she, and you refuse to call him a she, and you call him a "he" non-stop in your daily lives, you can be charged with a hate crime.

As I've said many times, the only religion allowed in public places and workplaces and schools is the religion of secularism.

 

[Half-Life]

You really see no difference between mandates and etiquette?

As i pointed out above, i have been in situations where 'proper' terms of address were literally mandated. Uniform Code of Military Justice, for example.
Functionally, there is no great difference in using a pronoun based on their request, social custom, or mandatory rule.
Why you pick this hill to die on seems childish, to me.

But, at least it's more adult than Halfie, who would deny free expression to all transexuals just so he doesn't have to learn how to behave among grownups.

Keith, who said I deny free expression to them? Did you miss this post:

As I have said multiple times, I have no problem with people dressing or acting however they want. But, you are not a different gender because of it! Can't you see there is a difference between gender and gender norms/expectations/roles? It is my belief that the trans community equates the "gender norms" to "gender," which is simply wrong. It's not a bad thing that this is wrong. I am simply pointing out that they are not abiding by the traditional stereotypical gender norms. It does not mean they are a different gender.

 

[laughing dog]

As I've said many times, the only religion allowed in public places and workplaces and schools is the religion of secularism.

Secularism is a principle not a religion.

 

[Half-Life]

As I've said many times, the only religion allowed in public places and workplaces and schools is the religion of secularism.

Secularism is a principle not a religion.

It basically is a religion. The thoughts of secularism are allowed in schools. For example, homosexuality is allowed to be taught in schools as "normal." The teaching of it as not normal is not allowed because that is considered a "religious position." However, teaching that it's normal is also a religious position.

Picture 2 different parents:

Child: We learned about how homosexuality is normal today!
Christian parent: That's not right. I don't want the school filling your head with that nonsense.

Child: We learned about how homosexuality is wrong today!
Atheist parent: That's not right. I don't want the school filling your head with that nonsense.

In both cases, the school would be teaching something the parents disagree with.