Trump Believes Military Will Obey His Illegal Orders

[Elixir]

Trump says he'd force U.S. military to commit war crimes

I'm fairly certain he will push this issue over the coming months, in preparation for deploying the military to quell the popular uprising that will occur when he refuses to leave office after losing the election. Of course that's illegal, but by the time he order it he will have made the military commit a long list of illegal acts, beginning with "gray area" crimes and proceeding to outright illegal ones. Deploying troops to the US side of the southern border was the first in the series. Assassinating Soleimani was the second. Stay tuned for what's next.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Why wouldn't he believe that? He doesn't seem to have received much in the way of push back on anything and the soldiers seem fine with obeying him.

 

[Patooka]

The article is four years old. Considering Trump's attention span, this has zero relevance to current affairs.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Why wouldn't he believe that? He doesn't seem to have received much in the way of push back on anything and the soldiers seem fine with obeying him.

Well, yeah, the guys who CAN say 'I was just following orders' aren't pushing back too much.
But the people at the ranks who will be held responsible, they have got to be thinking about what they'll do. Where's the line they won't cross.

The guy who tells Trump how to operate the Football has stated he won't let Trump commit any war crimes with the nukes. It's pretty much the definition of his job. And Trump can't fire him, not even with an ALL CAPS tweet.

I think after the coward overrode the military system by pardoning someone even the SEALS thought was a whack job, even more have to be thinking about what they'll say at the inevitable depositions.

 

[Elixir]

The article is four years old. Considering Trump's attention span, this has zero relevance to current affairs.

It has total relevance; he made the promise four years ago, and last week's assassination is further proof that this is one of those rare promises his is actually going to keep.
So far there has been little to no pushback from any commander in the field, so stay tuned for increasingly egregious violations of law. And don't think for a minute he plans to abide by the results of the 2020 election if he doesn't like them.

I think after he overrode the military system by pardoning someone even the SEALS thought was a whack job

Another example. The fact that I forgot about it evidences the normalization effect he is going for.

 

[ZiprHead]

Considering the ones that committed torture in Abu Ghraib went to jail and the ones that ordered the torture never saw the inside of a court room, I'd say the troops better think about what they are doing before they do it.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Why wouldn't he believe that? He doesn't seem to have received much in the way of push back on anything and the soldiers seem fine with obeying him.

Well, yeah, the guys who CAN say 'I was just following orders' aren't pushing back too much.
But the people at the ranks who will be held responsible, they have got to be thinking about what they'll do. Where's the line they won't cross.

The guy who tells Trump how to operate the Football has stated he won't let Trump commit any war crimes with the nukes. It's pretty much the definition of his job. And Trump can't fire him, not even with an ALL CAPS tweet.

I think after the coward overrode the military system by pardoning someone even the SEALS thought was a whack job, even more have to be thinking about what they'll say at the inevitable depositions.

Why would you think there's some line the military wouldn't cross? Is there something in their recent history which suggests they have this kind of line? These are the guys who were photobombing themselves torturing people at Abu Ghraib.

There might be a small subset of soldiers who would be a bit mopey about it, but these are American soldiers. They'll do what they're told and pass of the moral implications of that to someone else while not particularly caring.

 

[Gun Nut]

Trump just says whatever his base wants to hear, and then contradicts it. The base just likes hearing it and does not care if it is true or not.

 

[Gun Nut]

Why would you think there's some line the military wouldn't cross? Is there something in their recent history which suggests they have this kind of line?

The post-WWII trials resulting in both imprisonment and, in some countries, execution of Nazi soldiers that claimed to be "just following orders"... is that not recent enough to "count"?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Because the Brass have a finely-tuned instinct for covering their ass.
That's the line, and the threshold, pretty much exactly ass-high.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Why wouldn't he believe that? He doesn't seem to have received much in the way of push back on anything and the soldiers seem fine with obeying him.

Well, yeah, the guys who CAN say 'I was just following orders' aren't pushing back too much.
But the people at the ranks who will be held responsible, they have got to be thinking about what they'll do. Where's the line they won't cross.

The guy who tells Trump how to operate the Football has stated he won't let Trump commit any war crimes with the nukes. It's pretty much the definition of his job. And Trump can't fire him, not even with an ALL CAPS tweet.

I think after the coward overrode the military system by pardoning someone even the SEALS thought was a whack job, even more have to be thinking about what they'll say at the inevitable depositions.

Why would you think there's some line the military wouldn't cross? Is there something in their recent history which suggests they have this kind of line? These are the guys who were photobombing themselves torturing people at Abu Ghraib.

There might be a small subset of soldiers who would be a bit mopey about it, but these are American soldiers. They'll do what they're told and pass of the moral implications of that to someone else while not particularly caring.

There was a report on the radio that at least a few generals have chimed in saying they would NOT obey an illegal order. In this case, they were specifically talking about cheetolini's threat to take out cultural sites.

It will be interesting to see what happens (at least what we, the public hear about) if something like this does occur. You may have noticed, though, that quite a few high ranking Pentagon officials resigned in the week prior to the assassination. So maybe the 'good ones' are leaving. :/

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

They aren't war crimes if the US does it. It is "America!" if the US does it.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Two operative dynamics based on my brief experience.

1. The brass is always going to do all in its power to cover it's own ass. There's something about being perceived as a bumbling, inept shithead, however patriotic, that just doesn't go over well. This probably has all to do with not wanting to have an incident on your record that threatens promotion. The military isn't quite the civilian sphere where one can just move on to a different job.

2. Giving an illegal order is not as serious a crime as carrying out an illegal order. Agreed there are a lot of sinister fucks in the military that will lie through their teeth to keep themselves from being held responsible for their direct actions. Officers issuing orders can more easily skirt responsibility even if they know they're guilty. But if you're the guy who pulled the trigger you were supposed to know the difference between a legal and an illegal order.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Two operative dynamics based on my brief experience.

1. The brass is always going to do all in its power to cover it's own ass. There's something about being perceived as a bumbling, inept shithead, however patriotic, that just doesn't go over well.

Umm...

2. Giving an illegal order is not as serious a crime as carrying out an illegal order. Agreed there are a lot of sinister fucks in the military that will lie through their teeth to keep themselves from being held responsible for their direct actions. Officers issuing orders can more easily skirt responsibility even if they know they're guilty. But if you're the guy who pulled the trigger you were supposed to know the difference between a legal and an illegal order.

About that.

 

[repoman]

Gallagher is gonna kill someone again.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Trump says he'd force U.S. military to commit war crimes

I'm fairly certain he will push this issue over the coming months, in preparation for deploying the military to quell the popular uprising that will occur when he refuses to leave office after losing the election. Of course that's illegal, but by the time he order it he will have made the military commit a long list of illegal acts, beginning with "gray area" crimes and proceeding to outright illegal ones. Deploying troops to the US side of the southern border was the first in the series. Assassinating Soleimani was the second. Stay tuned for what's next.

Soleimani was not a war crime. Military commanders of enemy forces are valid targets.

I do agree he'd like them to do plenty of other illegal things, though.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The article is four years old. Considering Trump's attention span, this has zero relevance to current affairs.

Thanks for pointing this out. I think it's interesting that this was printed in a conservative newspaper, The Washington Times. Of course, this was in 2016 when Republicans were running for President and so there wasn't 100% loyalty to Dear Leader yet. And that's the thing. That's why it could be written back then in such a terrible newspaper, but probably not today.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trump says he'd force U.S. military to commit war crimes

I'm fairly certain he will push this issue over the coming months, in preparation for deploying the military to quell the popular uprising that will occur when he refuses to leave office after losing the election. Of course that's illegal, but by the time he order it he will have made the military commit a long list of illegal acts, beginning with "gray area" crimes and proceeding to outright illegal ones. Deploying troops to the US side of the southern border was the first in the series. Assassinating Soleimani was the second. Stay tuned for what's next.

Soleimani was not a war crime. Military commanders of enemy forces are valid targets.

Typically a war is warranted first. Would a hypothetical killing of Rumsfeld have been legitimate during the Iraq War/occupation?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Why would you think there's some line the military wouldn't cross? Is there something in their recent history which suggests they have this kind of line?

The post-WWII trials resulting in both imprisonment and, in some countries, execution of Nazi soldiers that claimed to be "just following orders"... is that not recent enough to "count"?

No. Who is going to be imprisoning or executing American soldiers for war crimes? Your country is pardoning them for them right now and nobody else is going to put US soldiers on trial. I fail to see whom it is that you feel will be enforcing this "no war crimes by American soldiers" rule.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Why would you think there's some line the military wouldn't cross? Is there something in their recent history which suggests they have this kind of line? These are the guys who were photobombing themselves torturing people at Abu Ghraib.

There might be a small subset of soldiers who would be a bit mopey about it, but these are American soldiers. They'll do what they're told and pass of the moral implications of that to someone else while not particularly caring.

There was a report on the radio that at least a few generals have chimed in saying they would NOT obey an illegal order. In this case, they were specifically talking about cheetolini's threat to take out cultural sites.

It will be interesting to see what happens (at least what we, the public hear about) if something like this does occur. You may have noticed, though, that quite a few high ranking Pentagon officials resigned in the week prior to the assassination. So maybe the 'good ones' are leaving. :/

OK, but having the order carried out 20 minutes later because someone resigns in protest and another guy gets promoted to his position isn't really "stopping" something.