Trump, demonstrating that he is an Asshole for all time to end DACA

[Harry Bosch]

Wow, I think that you have to be a cold blooded son of a bitch to favor evicting 800,000 people who have never broken a law to Mexico. These are people who were transported across the border when they were children against their will. All that they know is American culture. Many don't speak Spanish. They have complied with our laws. They are working or in college. And they have families. And the republicans are going to rip the families apart and separate them.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...cted-to-end-dreamers-immigration-program.html

Obama promised the dreamers protection if they would identify themselves to the authorities. And look at how the republicans will reward the dreamers. Very very sad.

I favor evicting the white supremacists back to Europe. Tit for Tat.

 

[Derec]

Wow, I think that you have to be a cold blooded son of a bitch to favor evicting 800,000 people who have never broken a law to Mexico.

- Illegal immigration is breaking the law.
- DACA is too broad and allows some people with non-immigration criminal record to be exempt.

Have not been convicted of a felony, significant misdemeanor,or three or more other misdemeanors, and do not otherwise pose a threat to national security or public safety.

Consideration of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA)
So, being convicted for two misdemeanors still makes you eligible for amnesty. Note that these are convictions and often felonies get pleaded down as misdemeanors (for example robbery gets pleaded down to theft by taking or aggravated assault to simple assault), especially for young offenders. So some of these 800,000 "dreamers" probably committed a felony.
And education requirements are also a joke. A fucking GED is enough.

Are currently in school, have graduated or obtained a certificate of completion from high school, have obtained a general education development (GED) certificate, or are an honorably discharged veteran of the Coast Guard or Armed Forces of the United States;

And this amnesty was never implemented as law, but as an executive order. And anything a president can do via EO can be undone as easily by the next president. Trump rescinded the order, but with a delay, and invited Congress to do it through legislation, the way it should have been done to begin with.

These are people who were transported across the border when they were children against their will.

How do you know it was "against their will"? And we are not only talking small children. Teenagers, who must have known they were sneaking across the border, are eligible too.

They have complied with our laws.

Not all of them.

They are working or in college.

Not necessarily. A GED is enough. College is not a requirement.

And they have families.

That justifies illegally migrating?

And the republicans are going to rip the families apart and separate them.

I disagree that children of illegals should get automatic citizenship. But even if these children of illegals are citizens, that does not mean they are prevented from going back to Mexico or Guatemala or Honduras with their illegal parents. "They have gotten one past the goalie" should not be a get-out-of-deportation-free card for illegals. Should all illegals with US-born children be forever exempt from deportation?

Obama promised the dreamers protection if they would identify themselves to the authorities. And look at how the republicans will reward the dreamers. Very very sad.

I think some form of DACA would be a good idea. But it needs more stringent requirements. The version implemented by Obama is way too broad. Age limit is too high, it includes people with criminal records and the education requirement is virtually nonexistent.
Look at the drastic difference between the requirements of the program and how DACA is being sold to us. We are told of small children who had no idea what were happening to them, not high-school age teenagers who knew full well. We are told of kids who never committed a crime, but the program allows two misdemeanor convictions. We are told of people going to college or pursuing advanced degrees, but the program only requires GED.
I think the Congress should take up Trump's invitation and draft an actual, hopefully bipartisan, DACA bill that would have some stricter requirements than the Obama DACA EO.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Replace Europe for Atlantis and I'm good with the white "supremacists" plan.

 

[RavenSky]

- Illegal immigration is breaking the law.

A civil violation on par with a parking ticket. Moreover, DACA recipients were all children when they arrived in the U.S., therefore not responsible for any "breaking the law." We don't issue parking tickets to the children of bad parkers.

DACA is too broad and allows some people with non-immigration criminal record to be exempt.

False. DACA recipients may not have criminal records. Even the bit you quoted says that. I am sure you are hyper-focused on the 1-2 "allowed" minor misdemeanors (examples: loitering, driving without a license) but I suspect most U.S. citizens can't even meet that bar. I know that you can't.

So, being convicted for two misdemeanors still makes you eligible for amnesty. Note that these are convictions and often felonies get pleaded down as misdemeanors (for example robbery gets pleaded down to theft by taking or aggravated assault to simple assault), especially for young offenders. So some of these 800,000 "dreamers" probably committed a felony.

Absolutely false bullshit. Read your own fucking link

And education requirements are also a joke. A fucking GED is enough.

Are currently in school, have graduated or obtained a certificate of completion from high school, have obtained a general education development (GED) certificate, or are an honorably discharged veteran of the Coast Guard or Armed Forces of the United States

Again, the quote shows that Derec is misrepresenting the facts

These are people who were transported across the border when they were children against their will.

How do you know it was "against their will"? And we are not only talking small children. Teenagers, who must have known they were sneaking across the border, are eligible too.

DACA recipients were 15 years old or younger when they arrived in the U.S. We don't hold children to adult laws when they are U.S. citizens either. (Well, sometimes we do because... racists... but that is a different thread)

They are working or in college.

Not necessarily. A GED is enough. College is not a requirement.

He didn't say college is a requirement. He said that the Dreamers are now generally working or in college, and he is 100% correct. 90% of DACA recipients are currently working. 70% are now in or have graduated from college.

And they have families.

That justifies illegally migrating?

And the republicans are going to rip the families apart and separate them.

I disagree that children of illegals should get automatic citizenship. But even if these children of illegals are citizens, that does not mean they are prevented from going back to Mexico or Guatemala or Honduras with their illegal parents. "They have gotten one past the goalie" should not be a get-out-of-deportation-free card for illegals. Should all illegals with US-born children be forever exempt from deportation?

So you not only want to deport people who have lived here for the majority of their lives and don't know any other country, you ALSO want to deport U.S. BORN CITIZENS who have NEVER lived in any other country!!!

I also note your choice of example countries: "Mexico or Guatemala or Honduras". Those are not the only countries, bucko, but your choice certainly reaffirms my opinion that your politics are formed by your irrational response to brown skin, and you don't care at all that some of the brown people you are trying to deport would be U.S. BORN CITIZENS!!!!

Obama promised the dreamers protection if they would identify themselves to the authorities. And look at how the republicans will reward the dreamers. Very very sad.

I think some form of DACA would be a good idea. But it needs more stringent requirements. The version implemented by Obama is way too broad. Age limit is too high

False. DACA only applies to people who were under the age of 16 AND under 31 as of June 12, 2012 AND lived in the U.S. continuously since 2007. That is a very specific restricted segment of people. Further, DACA does not apply to anyone (of any age) who arrived after 2012.

it includes people with criminal records

FALSE!

and the education requirement is virtually nonexistent.

FALSE!

 

[whichphilosophy]

We have a problem in the UK. We are 2 million houses short but we pack in a net amount of migrants each year to build a sizeable town of 250k to 300k people. Added to this we have illegal immigrants notably from India who work off the cards for some of the many sweatshops and fruit pickers that have been growing in the UK.

Added to this more people pack into single rooms than ever before.

The UK has taken immigrants but not to the degree we do nowadays.

The US is even more hysterical in packing in millions of people then wondering why medicare costs so much.

Hong Kong partly resolved mass immigration by making it illegal to pay migrant workers less than its own citizens. This reduced recruitment from abroad and the country boomed. (Hong Kong Labour Laws).

Another problem is if we take too many educated scientists and other professionals it causes a brain drain.

Sending children over without parents is one loophole being exploited which we are facing in the UK

We do get some people with criminal records but not all are criminals. We also get very able migrants but not all can fill the spaces. My local IT shop is run by an Egyptian who is a Architect but cannot find work in that field so he changed his work.

Migrants should be evaluated on a one by one basis taking into account housing schools and hospital shortages.
In some places it takes 3 weeks to see a doctor. In 1995 it took about 45 minutes.

The UK a nd US need to place some quotas in place. Also Syrian and Iraqi refugees are much cheaper to assist in Arab countries.

 

[fromderinside]

- Illegal immigration is breaking the law.

So is jaywalking. Let's ban then from being near streets. Enforcement problem?

 

[whichphilosophy]

The US does have an immigration system. Is there anything wrong with people applying through this way?

 

[Ford]

A civil violation on par with a parking ticket. Moreover, DACA recipients were all children when they arrived in the U.S., therefore not responsible for any "breaking the law." We don't issue parking tickets to the children of bad parkers.

No, but we do pander to racists by blaming all our problems (like the staggering 4% unemployment rate) on brown people.

Some "totally not racist" people (whom I've had on ignore for quite some time) might argue otherwise, but this is all about race, and an administration still hell bent on campaigning. The message is "we're gonna get tough on illegal immigrants" and that's going to #MAGA.

But at the same time, Trump will trumpet the economy roaring back to life. The fake unemployment numbers he derided during election season (campaign still isn't over) are now maybe a little fake in the other direction! We're adding hundreds of thousands of jobs every month (like we were during Obama's last few years), consumer confidence is up (like under Obama), and everything is now sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns!

But the brown people are still here. The rapists, murderers, drug dealers, and I'm sure a few of them are good people (wink, wink). They're still here, and if we don't do something about "them," America can't become Great Again. Never mind that net immigration is flat or falling. Never mind that the wall is all sorts of expensive and difficult to build and won't really stop the flow of cheap labor. Never mind that even if it did and millions of illegals were rounded up, those jobs would not be filled by Americans desperate to go back into the fields.

No, never you mind any of that, because we've got to do something about "them," and God Bless President Trump for finally doing something about "those people." It'll keep the base riled up until such time as we're too busy fighting North Korea...hey maybe we can draft all these DACA kids to go fight?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

- Illegal immigration is breaking the law.

So is jaywalking. Let's ban then from being near streets. Enforcement problem?

Fucking a prostitute is against the law. Time to send Derec packing.

 

[whichphilosophy]

A civil violation on par with a parking ticket. Moreover, DACA recipients were all children when they arrived in the U.S., therefore not responsible for any "breaking the law." We don't issue parking tickets to the children of bad parkers.

No, but we do pander to racists by blaming all our problems (like the staggering 4% unemployment rate) on brown people.

Some "totally not racist" people (whom I've had on ignore for quite some time) might argue otherwise, but this is all about race, and an administration still hell bent on campaigning. The message is "we're gonna get tough on illegal immigrants" and that's going to #MAGA.

But at the same time, Trump will trumpet the economy roaring back to life. The fake unemployment numbers he derided during election season (campaign still isn't over) are now maybe a little fake in the other direction! We're adding hundreds of thousands of jobs every month (like we were during Obama's last few years), consumer confidence is up (like under Obama), and everything is now sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns!

But the brown people are still here. The rapists, murderers, drug dealers, and I'm sure a few of them are good people (wink, wink). They're still here, and if we don't do something about "them," America can't become Great Again. Never mind that net immigration is flat or falling. Never mind that the wall is all sorts of expensive and difficult to build and won't really stop the flow of cheap labor. Never mind that even if it did and millions of illegals were rounded up, those jobs would not be filled by Americans desperate to go back into the fields.

No, never you mind any of that, because we've got to do something about "them," and God Bless President Trump for finally doing something about "those people." It'll keep the base riled up until such time as we're too busy fighting North Korea...hey maybe we can draft all these DACA kids to go fight?

You have a reasonable size of poor people in the USA. Pumping millions of people into the US is unsustainable in terms of medical cover, housing, schools and jobs apart from a few.

There are jobs which require foreign labour but many of these are sweatshops. These workers as in other countries can get work visas.
It works there as well.

 

[whichphilosophy]

A civil violation on par with a parking ticket. Moreover, DACA recipients were all children when they arrived in the U.S., therefore not responsible for any "breaking the law." We don't issue parking tickets to the children of bad parkers.

DACA is too broad and allows some people with non-immigration criminal record to be exempt.

False. DACA recipients may not have criminal records. Even the bit you quoted says that. I am sure you are hyper-focused on the 1-2 "allowed" minor misdemeanors (examples: loitering, driving without a license) but I suspect most U.S. citizens can't even meet that bar. I know that you can't.

So, being convicted for two misdemeanors still makes you eligible for amnesty. Note that these are convictions and often felonies get pleaded down as misdemeanors (for example robbery gets pleaded down to theft by taking or aggravated assault to simple assault), especially for young offenders. So some of these 800,000 "dreamers" probably committed a felony.

Absolutely false bullshit. Read your own fucking link

And education requirements are also a joke. A fucking GED is enough.

Are currently in school, have graduated or obtained a certificate of completion from high school, have obtained a general education development (GED) certificate, or are an honorably discharged veteran of the Coast Guard or Armed Forces of the United States

Again, the quote shows that Derec is misrepresenting the facts

These are people who were transported across the border when they were children against their will.

How do you know it was "against their will"? And we are not only talking small children. Teenagers, who must have known they were sneaking across the border, are eligible too.

DACA recipients were 15 years old or younger when they arrived in the U.S. We don't hold children to adult laws when they are U.S. citizens either. (Well, sometimes we do because... racists... but that is a different thread)

They are working or in college.

Not necessarily. A GED is enough. College is not a requirement.

He didn't say college is a requirement. He said that the Dreamers are now generally working or in college, and he is 100% correct. 90% of DACA recipients are currently working. 70% are now in or have graduated from college.

And they have families.

That justifies illegally migrating?

And the republicans are going to rip the families apart and separate them.

I disagree that children of illegals should get automatic citizenship. But even if these children of illegals are citizens, that does not mean they are prevented from going back to Mexico or Guatemala or Honduras with their illegal parents. "They have gotten one past the goalie" should not be a get-out-of-deportation-free card for illegals. Should all illegals with US-born children be forever exempt from deportation?

So you not only want to deport people who have lived here for the majority of their lives and don't know any other country, you ALSO want to deport U.S. BORN CITIZENS who have NEVER lived in any other country!!!

I also note your choice of example countries: "Mexico or Guatemala or Honduras". Those are not the only countries, bucko, but your choice certainly reaffirms my opinion that your politics are formed by your irrational response to brown skin, and you don't care at all that some of the brown people you are trying to deport would be U.S. BORN CITIZENS!!!!

Obama promised the dreamers protection if they would identify themselves to the authorities. And look at how the republicans will reward the dreamers. Very very sad.

I think some form of DACA would be a good idea. But it needs more stringent requirements. The version implemented by Obama is way too broad. Age limit is too high

False. DACA only applies to people who were under the age of 16 AND under 31 as of June 12, 2012 AND lived in the U.S. continuously since 2007. That is a very specific restricted segment of people. Further, DACA does not apply to anyone (of any age) who arrived after 2012.

it includes people with criminal records

FALSE!

and the education requirement is virtually nonexistent.

FALSE!

There is a whole mix of people who enter the USA. Very skilled, skilled and otherwise useful. The US does have problems with a few.

 

[RavenSky]

You have a reasonable size of poor people in the USA. Pumping millions of people into the US is unsustainable in terms of medical cover, housing, schools and jobs apart from a few.

There are jobs which require foreign labour but many of these are sweatshops. These workers as in other countries can get work visas.
It works there as well.

Sorry not sorry to be rude, but what are you babbling about?

This thread is about DACA. Do you know what DACA is? It does not appear that you do based on your comments.

DACA is not about "pumping millions of people into the US" - it is about less than a million people who have already been living in the U.S. since they were children.

And it is not about "poor people" for "sweatshops".

It is about young people - 90% of whom have jobs, and 70% of whom are now college educated. They won't be working in sweatshops. They are, however, paying a heck of a lot of taxes (and do not qualify for federal or state financial aid)

- - - Updated - - -

There is a whole mix of people who enter the USA. Very skilled, skilled and otherwise useful. The US does have problems with a few.

Again, what does your comment have to do with the topic of this thread?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The US does have an immigration system. Is there anything wrong with people applying through this way?

Firstly, Trump doesn't need DACA's help to demonstrate he's an asshole.

Secondly, No.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Derec,

Do you believe that with DACA taken down, people who came here as young children, lived here over a decade, and don't have any memory of living anywhere else could get deported if found? I get that you believe DACA is overly broad, but is taking it down rather than revising it not severely unjust to these people? Imagine if the government showed up at your door and told you that you were adopted as a young child. You have no memory of it but you not born in the USA, and they were here to deport you because you got caught in a few misdemeanors a few years back and they now heard about it, so out you go, to some third world country you know nothing about.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The US does have an immigration system. Is there anything wrong with people applying through this way?

I'm not sure that you understand what DACA is?

 

[whichphilosophy]

The US does have an immigration system. Is there anything wrong with people applying through this way?

I'm not sure that you understand what DACA is?

We have this in the UK and Europe. Children are allowed in if they are under a certain age, are allowed to stay as they will not be deported. Another 1.3 million are waiting to pile in. Clearly those who drive the children to the US are taking the Micky out of the US soft touch policy. Mexico and the Latin American countries they come in from should be responsible for their welfare.

The US should be concentrating on its own needy and not acting as a general fool to the Latin American countries from where they come from.

What about US citizens who need assistance and better healthcare.

- - - Updated - - -

Derec,

Do you believe that with DACA taken down, people who came here as young children, lived here over a decade, and don't have any memory of living anywhere else could get deported if found? I get that you believe DACA is overly broad, but is taking it down rather than revising it not severely unjust to these people? Imagine if the government showed up at your door and told you that you were adopted as a young child. You have no memory of it but you not born in the USA, and they were here to deport you because you got caught in a few misdemeanors a few years back and they now heard about it, so out you go, to some third world country you know nothing about.

The resolution of this would be to stem the flow of these. Its more difficult to deport people who have never lived anywhere else since they were a toddler.

 

[RavenSky]

We have this in the UK and Europe. Children are allowed in if they are under a certain age, are allowed to stay as they will not be deported.

Clearly you do NOT understand what DACA is.

It is not some sort of ongoing program such as you are describing. It is a deferment for a limited segment of people who were brought to the U.S. before the age of 16, and only applied to people in this country prior to June 2012.

There is no "waiting to pile in" resulting from DACA because DACA doesn't apply to anyone arriving after June 2012.

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/consideration-deferred-action-childhood-arrivals-daca

 

[Opoponax]

So what's this going to look like?

Will conservative heroes be informing the government on neighbors who appear to be former beneficiaries of DACA?
Will those conservative heroes be the ones knocking on doors and taking these young people from their homes and loading them onto trucks and trains?
Will these heroes be bashing relatives and loved ones of the now-criminal young person in the head with a rifle butt should they interfere too much.

A person who supports this monstrous fucking policy has lost their right to think of themselves as a decent human being. This is about bigotry, racism, grossly misplaced blame, and cruelty. It is nothing less.

 

[Ford]

So what's this going to look like?

Like everything else from the desk of Fragilego Mussolini. He makes a decree, everyone's caught flat-footed about how to implement the policy, nobody in the administration actually has any real experience implementing policies, so it is left in the hands of the GOP controlled Congress, who have demonstrated that they couldn't agree on how to start a fire if you gave them a box of matches and a gallon of gasoline.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The US does have an immigration system. Is there anything wrong with people applying through this way?

Firstly, Trump doesn't need DACA's help to demonstrate he's an asshole.

Secondly, No.

But I said that this demonstrates that he's an "all-time" asshole! I don't hate conservatives, communists, anarchists, Oregon State Beavers, Russians, religious people, or any other type of person or belief. In fact, I like people who don't agree with me. I like to argue. Debate. It's fun. But you have to be a really really dark person to want to evict a law abiding kid to a foreign country and rip them from their family. All that I can say is that I hope that people remember this, and vote next time. Make your vote count.