Trump threatens to keep government shutdown for months or maybe years!

[southernhybrid]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/04/us/politics/democrats-trump-meeting-government-shutdown.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Emerging from what they called a “sometimes contentious” meeting at the White House, Democratic leaders said Mr. Trump remained adamant that he would not sign spending bills to reopen the shuttered offices unless Congress approved money for his wall on the southern border.

“We told the president we needed the government open,” Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the Democratic leader, told reporters outside the White House. “He resisted. In fact, he said he’d keep the government closed for a very long period of time, months or even years.”

 

[untermensche]

An unneeded wall for racist xenophobes.

That's all Trump has.

 

[southernhybrid]

True, plus he's an idiot child who threatens the country when he can't get his way.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I've been pondering who will blink first, and I suspect it will be the House Democrats, for the following reasons.

Many people look at the government as basically good or an essential good. Now I view it as a necessary evil at best, but I know I'm in the minority, especially since unlike Republicans I actually mean it. I do not claim Trump shares my opinion, he's basically a New York Democrat, but he also can see "this is what they want" due to his past in business. He knows that all Democrats and most Republicans consider government to be a good and necessary thing. By shutting it down, he is withholding what they consider good.

This is especially true since his opponents are all political insiders. There are different levels of political activity. The most basic way in which someone can claim to be in a party is on their voter registration and by their voting habits. Then there are those who actually go to the meetings of the policial party. Then there are those who actually hold party office. Then there are those who hold elected office. Those who hold party office and most of those who hold elected office are at the top-most level of party insider. Trump is not one of them. Although he is basically a New York Democrat, he doesn't have much of a political history. Take a person at the top level who has only held party office - if that person then turns to holding elected office I can pretty well predict what their next move will be even without an electoral history because I know the group they belong to, and sometimes even the faction of the group they belong to. I can't predict Trump this way, he is not a party insider.

Still, I can predict the Congressmen and Senators. They do believe government to be an essential good, even the Republicans. To them, if the government is shut down, an essential good is being withheld from the country. The shutdown makes them morally uncomfortable, similar to if a Catholic were denied communion.

I very much doubt that Trump shares my opinion, I think he is more agnostic to the topic. Still, that's a lot less faith in government than most in Congress have. As such, although he knows that a shutdown creates problems, he is not as morally impacted by the shutdown as his opponents.

That, and he only wants one thing that they could easily give, in return for everything they want. Considering that the budget is measured in trillions, five billion for a wall really isn't big, except for the point that they are dedicated to opposing what he wants.

Pelosi has to decide which is worse - giving Trump a wall or letting the shutdown continue. THAT is the pivotal question on which the whole issue boils down.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Pelosi has to decide which is worse - giving Trump a wall or letting the shutdown continue. THAT is the pivotal question on which the whole issue boils down.

But if they give Trump the wall as part of ending the shutdown, then he will always be willing to shut the government down in order to get what he wants.

This is the third shutdown of Trump's presidency. I really think they cannot afford to let him win through this tantrum. The size of his demand isn't as important as how they want to go on with this President in the future.

I think the GOP in the senate will blink before Trump does, and approve a veto-proof budget, without a wall. Then they become the heroes, and they don't care any more about Trump's reputation than the Democrats do.

Then I do think Trump will get a wall, but only in exchange for a LOT of concessions, and not part of the shutdown tantrum.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think it will be the Congressional Republicans who'll blink long before Trump or the Dems do. The country is on the Dems' side right now and blames Trump for the shutdown while the GOP is just hiding and hoping that nobody remembers they're around too. The Dems were also just given an extremely large mandate to oppose Trump and they're pretty much guaranteeing a second Trump term if they back down in the first fight against him because nobody will take them seriously as an opposition.

The GOP, on the other hand, knows that they're vulnerable and knows that they're losing the PR battle. If they get enough opposition to force a vote, they can distance themselves from Trump on this unpopular issue and give themselves some breathing room for when they go back to their constituents. The only question is whether or not they can get enough opposition to override a veto and whether or not Trump will make his own position worse by vetoing what would then be a bipartisan bill simply to avoid his having to have a loss.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shutdown-poll/a-growing-number-of-americans-blame-trump-for-shutdown-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKCN1P223U

The national opinion poll, which ran from Jan. 1 to Jan. 7, found that 51 percent of adults believe Trump “deserves most of the blame” for the shutdown, which entered its 18th day on Tuesday. That is up 4 percentage points from a similar poll that ran from Dec. 21 to 25.

Another 32 percent blame congressional Democrats for the shutdown and 7 percent blame congressional Republicans, according to the poll. Those percentages are mostly unchanged from the previous poll.

 

[Gun Nut]

The Democrats would be consistent by folding. They would be smart to simply pass a bill up to senate and let the GoP fail it, the president veto it, or have it pass. They can't possibly look bad just doing their jobs... and when the Reps say they won't vote it because the president may not like it, the Dems are being consistently foolish by not providing 24/7 sound bites to all media outlets about how their doing their jobs but the Reps are not and how the three tier democracy works... hint: The president is a civil servant in charge of the executive branch... this is the legislative branch... so he is just a servant to the process... blah blah blah... But the Dems are far too disconnected with what people understand and respond to.

The Dems will be the "adults in the room" seeking "higher ground"... and Trump will "win" and get reelected. How's that higher ground up there in the smog?

 

[James Brown]

But if they give Trump the wall as part of ending the shutdown, then he will always be willing to shut the government down in order to get what he wants.

This is the third shutdown of Trump's presidency. I really think they cannot afford to let him win through this tantrum. The size of his demand isn't as important as how they want to go on with this President in the future.

Isn't the standard position, "We don't negotiate with terrorists"?

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

This isn't about any wall. He doesn't give a flying fuck about any wall. He could have had ten walls by now when the Republicans controlled Congress. This is about inflicting as much damage as he possibly can before the noose tightens and he's forced out of office.

There aren't two equal scenarios happening here. The only scenario that answers every question about what Trump has been doing throughout his occupation (and years before, actually) is that Putin has control over him. And no, not in any Manchurian Candidate way.

All anyone needs to know in regard to how Putin controls Trump is this article: Trump Engaged in Suspect Tax Schemes as He Reaped Riches From His Father.

ETA: And this photo:



Oooh, and this one....



Iow, two of the most fucked up fathers a little dimply cheeked privileged boy could ever hope for.

And then along comes:



And now you get the picture

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

The Democrats would be consistent by folding. They would be smart to simply pass a bill up to senate and let the GoP fail it, the president veto it, or have it pass.

They did that last week with multiple bills. Some republicans even voted with the Democrats. McConnell won’t let the bills come up for a vote.

 

[Elixir]

The Democrats would be consistent by folding. They would be smart to simply pass a bill up to senate and let the GoP fail it, the president veto it, or have it pass.

They did that last week with multiple bills. Some republicans even voted with the Democrats. McConnell won’t let the bills come up for a vote.

The fact that few seem to realize that, even some who consider themselves aware of what's going on up there on the Hill (like GN), is what really pisses me off.
Turtle needs to grow a pair and let the Senate do its job, or show that it can't do its job.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Pelosi has to decide which is worse - giving Trump a wall or letting the shutdown continue. THAT is the pivotal question on which the whole issue boils down.

I agree. It is up to McConnell to decide whether to allow the Senate to voice vote the exact bill they unanimously passed in late December (and passed by Pelosi's House in January) and let Trump have to Veto the bill to force a 2/3's majority vote in the Senate and House... or give him his wall.

 

[Gun Nut]

The Democrats would be consistent by folding. They would be smart to simply pass a bill up to senate and let the GoP fail it, the president veto it, or have it pass.

They did that last week with multiple bills. Some republicans even voted with the Democrats. McConnell won’t let the bills come up for a vote.

The fact that few seem to realize that, even some who consider themselves aware of what's going on up there on the Hill (like GN), is what really pisses me off.
Turtle needs to grow a pair and let the Senate do its job, or show that it can't do its job.

sorry I'm pissing you off (if I am reading what you wrote correctly).... It sounds like we agree that the house and senate should just do their job without care about what happens to their work after it is done (veto, signed, whatever).... This, "We won't vote unless the president approves" is an obvious (to me) attempt by the Reps to color the Dems as obstructionist, when it is the president who is the sole obstructionist here.

 

[zorq]

The fact that few seem to realize that, even some who consider themselves aware of what's going on up there on the Hill (like GN), is what really pisses me off.
Turtle needs to grow a pair and let the Senate do its job, or show that it can't do its job.

sorry I'm pissing you off (if I am reading what you wrote correctly).... It sounds like we agree that the house and senate should just do their job without care about what happens to their work after it is done (veto, signed, whatever).... This, "We won't vote unless the president approves" is an obvious (to me) attempt by the Reps to color the Dems as obstructionist, when it is the president who is the sole obstructionist here.

Nope. the entire Rep bloc are the obstructionists here. The Senate Reps could easily do their jobs and pass the budget they already passed before and force the president to veto if he chooses. But they are choosing to provide cover for the president. This puts all of them in the same dirty boat.

 

[Gun Nut]

The fact that few seem to realize that, even some who consider themselves aware of what's going on up there on the Hill (like GN), is what really pisses me off.
Turtle needs to grow a pair and let the Senate do its job, or show that it can't do its job.

sorry I'm pissing you off (if I am reading what you wrote correctly).... It sounds like we agree that the house and senate should just do their job without care about what happens to their work after it is done (veto, signed, whatever).... This, "We won't vote unless the president approves" is an obvious (to me) attempt by the Reps to color the Dems as obstructionist, when it is the president who is the sole obstructionist here.

Nope. the entire Rep bloc are the obstructionists here. The Senate Reps could easily do their jobs and pass the budget they already passed before and force the president to veto if he chooses. But they are choosing to provide cover for the president. This puts all of them in the same dirty boat.

I'm not disagreeing... My phrasing implies that the Reps are just following their commander's orders... the issue is that he is some kind of commander over an entirely different branch of government... branches in place for the explicit purpose of dividing that very power.
What the reps are doing in that respect is anti-democratic.... at the very very least, it is like a person in a Ford factory refusing to put tires on a car in the production line because, "it's just going to go flat someday anyway". Do your fucking job, public servant (emphasis on SERVANT).

 

[Elixir]

sorry I'm pissing you off (if I am reading what you wrote correctly)....

Not at all, GN. What pisses me off is that it is possible for you to pay some degree of attention to the situation, and still not know - IOW, there is no noise being made about this that is loud enough to be heard over Cheato's temper tantrum.
Mitch is sitting on bills that the Senate already passed - nearly unanimously, and were never taken up by the Republican House. They passed the House when the Dems gained control and were sent back to the Senate, where Turtle refuses to take them up because they would pass again - and he has to keep sucking Trump's dick, for some reason. He's is supposed to be running a co-equal and independent branch of government, not sucking Trump's dick.
THAT is what pisses me off.

 

[Keith&Co.]

because they would pass again - and he has to keep sucking Trump's dick, for some reason.

Right now, if he keeps his head down, the headlines are blaming either Trump of the Dems.

Whiever blinks first, Mitch can claim anything he wants come the elections. "We wanted to open the govt, but (x) was being unreasonable!"

If the y vote, they have to pick a side. Their vote on ending the shutdown WILL be on record, and it WILL be brought back to haunt them, either by fucking the nation over, or betraying The Donald. So he's praying no one forces his hand.

 

[Elixir]

because they would pass again - and he has to keep sucking Trump's dick, for some reason.

Right now, if he keeps his head down, the headlines are blaming either Trump of the Dems.

Whiever blinks first, Mitch can claim anything he wants come the elections. "We wanted to open the govt, but (x) was being unreasonable!"

If the y vote, they have to pick a side. Their vote on ending the shutdown WILL be on record, and it WILL be brought back to haunt them, either by fucking the nation over, or betraying The Donald. So he's praying no one forces his hand.

All the more reason to force his hand, IMO. His history of obstructionism and perversion of rules deserves some payback.

 

[Treedbear]

... Their vote on ending the shutdown WILL be on record, and it WILL be brought back to haunt them, either by fucking the nation over, or betraying The Donald. So he's praying no one forces his hand.

I think what McConnell actually said was "you don't learn anything from the 2nd kick of the mule."

 

[Worldtraveller]

because they would pass again - and he has to keep sucking Trump's dick, for some reason.

Right now, if he keeps his head down, the headlines are blaming either Trump of the Dems.

Whiever blinks first, Mitch can claim anything he wants come the elections. "We wanted to open the govt, but (x) was being unreasonable!"

If the y vote, they have to pick a side. Their vote on ending the shutdown WILL be on record, and it WILL be brought back to haunt them, either by fucking the nation over, or betraying The Donald. So he's praying no one forces his hand.

All the more reason to force his hand, IMO. His history of obstructionism and perversion of rules deserves some payback the guillotine.

Fixt.