Trump's Infrastructure "Program" (Scam)

[Elixir]

Making a few of Trump's pals Great Again...

"The federal government can indeed borrow very cheaply; meanwhile, we really need to spend money on everything from sewage treatment to transit. The indicated course of action, then, is simple: borrow at those low, low rates, and use the funds raised to fix what needs fixing.

But that’s not what the Trump team is proposing. Instead, it’s calling for huge tax credits: billions of dollars in checks written to private companies that invest in approved projects, which they would end up owning. For example, imagine a private consortium building a toll road for $1 billion. Under the Trump plan, the consortium might borrow $800 million while putting up $200 million in equity — but it would get a tax credit of 82 percent of that sum, so that its actual outlays would only be $36 million. And any future revenue from tolls would go to the people who put up that $36 million.
<snip>
...many cities will have to replace their water systems in the years ahead, one way or another; if that replacement takes place under the Trump scheme rather than through ordinary government investment, we haven’t built additional infrastructure, we’ve just privatized what would have been public assets — and the people acquiring those assets will have paid just 18 cents on the dollar, with taxpayers picking up the rest of the tab."

Build it he won't

 

[Tom Sawyer]

But, on the bright side, these will all be internal, domestic projects so the only people who will suffer from these deals are Americans and those guys elected Donald Trump as their president, so it's not like it matters.

 

[Elixir]

But, on the bright side, these will all be internal, domestic projects so the only people who will suffer from these deals are Americans and those guys elected Donald Trump as their president, so it's not like it matters.

I'm an American, and I didn't elect Trump. (I suspect ever more strongly that Putin elected Trump).
It makes me sick that this perverted conman is poised for a wholesale heist of American public property, which he plans to gift to his partners in crime. He even admits it, telling the press that the $25m he casually paid out to make his fraud charges go away were "peanuts compared to what's going on".

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Look, Trump and his GOP cronies are going to fuck up your country badly - that's a given which everyone is just going to have to accept and won't be able to do anything to stop. You had the same thing with Shrub, but he also wanted to impose his flawed incompetence and idiocy in foreign adventures as well, which fucked up a lot of the rest of the world.

If you can keep Trump focused on scamming only Americans and concentrating on internal issues, that's not only half the problems which the next President is going to have to spend his term fixing, but it will also help to limit the impact of the poor decision-making skills which Americans have onto other Americans and not onto the rest of the planet which wasn't involved in this debacle.

If a bunch of you want to look into breaking yourselves off into smaller countries and helping to wall off the stupid into a smaller area with less global influence then fine, the rest of us are behind you. If not, please do what you can to keep Trump as a you problem and not an us problem. This sort of thing keeps him a you problem, so get onboard and don't try to sabotage him so that he'll start looking around for something else to do.

 

[whichphilosophy]

But, on the bright side, these will all be internal, domestic projects so the only people who will suffer from these deals are Americans and those guys elected Donald Trump as their president, so it's not like it matters.

I'm an American, and I didn't elect Trump. (I suspect ever more strongly that Putin elected Trump).
It makes me sick that this perverted conman is poised for a wholesale heist of American public property, which he plans to gift to his partners in crime. He even admits it, telling the press that the $25m he casually paid out to make his fraud charges go away were "peanuts compared to what's going on".

It would be impossible for Putin to elect Trump since he would have to be a US Citizen, and registered to vote. There again he would only have one vote.
I don't think is is going to spend all his time on this lawsuit if he is the president of the USA. US$25,000,000 is somewhat small but there again in the US lawsuits can go on indefinitely.

 

[Elixir]

It would be impossible for Putin to elect Trump ....

... by conventional means, yes.
I'm sure THIS doesn't look one bit fishy to you, WP. That's what one might expect from someone who thinks the dictator of a "Galactic Confederacy" brought him here...

 

[Horatio Parker]

I can't find the quote, but the morning after the election, a high ranking Chinese official said Trump was the ideal choice to change the worlds number one economy into number two.

 

[coloradoatheist]

And this editorial is from someone who said it was good to spend money on infrastructure so that we could defend ourselves against aliens. So it's good to spend other people's money on stuff, but having business commit some of their own money is bad.

 

[Elixir]

And this editorial is from someone who said it was good to spend money on infrastructure so that we could defend ourselves against aliens. So it's good to spend other people's money on stuff, but having business commit some of their own money is bad.

That's a total mis-read, intentional or otherwise. What is NOT good is having the taxpayers put up most of the money and letting a (relatively) few individuals reap all the rewards.
Didn't read the article, did you?

 

[funinspace]

Making a few of Trump's pals Great Again...

Just think of this as a Shrub redux, but instead of Halliburton & KBR making a mint, it will be other well connected outfits. Those frustrated blue collar white dudes just need to get some private equity firms stood up, and then they can live like a Trump...made even easier with lower taxes on those with capital. That was the plan, wasn’t it?

 

[coloradoatheist]

Here's a counter article that talks about infrastructure spending.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/if-you-build-it-14606.html

 

[Elixir]

Here's a counter article that talks about infrastructure spending.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/if-you-build-it-14606.html

Nowhere does that article mention the inequity of using tax dollars to allow leveraging by private Corps such that they end up "owning" the projects they work on. (In fact it reads like someone is trying to pave the path* for exactly what the article I linked describes.) And that precisely what is going to happen if Herr Trumpf gets his way. You don't really think he's going to let billions pass through the hands of his cronies without letting them take the largest cut, do you? Maybe he'll do it the "right" way, and allow the projects to be bid out just like the projects I do for the Fed are bid out, whereby performance criteria are laid out and adhered to under pain of pre-set fines, and the Company retains no ownership interest or royalties in the product. But I HIGHLY doubt it.



*No pun intended

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Making a few of Trump's pals Great Again...

"The federal government can indeed borrow very cheaply; meanwhile, we really need to spend money on everything from sewage treatment to transit. The indicated course of action, then, is simple: borrow at those low, low rates, and use the funds raised to fix what needs fixing.

But that’s not what the Trump team is proposing. Instead, it’s calling for huge tax credits: billions of dollars in checks written to private companies that invest in approved projects, which they would end up owning. For example, imagine a private consortium building a toll road for $1 billion. Under the Trump plan, the consortium might borrow $800 million while putting up $200 million in equity — but it would get a tax credit of 82 percent of that sum, so that its actual outlays would only be $36 million. And any future revenue from tolls would go to the people who put up that $36 million.
<snip>
...many cities will have to replace their water systems in the years ahead, one way or another; if that replacement takes place under the Trump scheme rather than through ordinary government investment, we haven’t built additional infrastructure, we’ve just privatized what would have been public assets — and the people acquiring those assets will have paid just 18 cents on the dollar, with taxpayers picking up the rest of the tab."

Build it he won't

So bankrupt government so it can't afford to provide the services, let the businesses come in and buy into a new leasing of public utilities and infrastructure. So a private business puts up little cash to build a bridge, gets a massive write-off and then signs a permanent lease with the state DOT for use of the bridge, of which I bet DOT gets the privilege of maintaining said bridge. Jesus fucking Christ! Trump wants to literally sell off America. I guess all of the property that Hedge Funds bought up in the Great Recession just wetted the appetite of private industry to buy up the nation.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Making a few of Trump's pals Great Again...

"The federal government can indeed borrow very cheaply; meanwhile, we really need to spend money on everything from sewage treatment to transit. The indicated course of action, then, is simple: borrow at those low, low rates, and use the funds raised to fix what needs fixing.

But that’s not what the Trump team is proposing. Instead, it’s calling for huge tax credits: billions of dollars in checks written to private companies that invest in approved projects, which they would end up owning. For example, imagine a private consortium building a toll road for $1 billion. Under the Trump plan, the consortium might borrow $800 million while putting up $200 million in equity — but it would get a tax credit of 82 percent of that sum, so that its actual outlays would only be $36 million. And any future revenue from tolls would go to the people who put up that $36 million.
<snip>
...many cities will have to replace their water systems in the years ahead, one way or another; if that replacement takes place under the Trump scheme rather than through ordinary government investment, we haven’t built additional infrastructure, we’ve just privatized what would have been public assets — and the people acquiring those assets will have paid just 18 cents on the dollar, with taxpayers picking up the rest of the tab."

Build it he won't

So bankrupt government so it can't afford to provide the services, let the businesses come in and buy into a new leasing of public utilities and infrastructure. So a private business puts up little cash to build a bridge, gets a massive write-off and then signs a permanent lease with the state DOT for use of the bridge, of which I bet DOT gets the privilege of maintaining said bridge. Jesus fucking Christ! Trump wants to literally sell off America. I guess all of the property that Hedge Funds bought up in the Great Recession just wetted the appetite of private industry to buy up the nation.

Pennsylvania used it for about 600 bridges

https://www.transportation.gov/policy-initiatives/build-america/Pennsylvania%20Rapid%20Bridge%20Replacement%20Project,Statewide

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Tried to cut and paste some of the text, didn't take well. Jebus! It reads like a Guide to another Great Recession for Dummies.

They'll provide a tax credit for all equity entered into the project. Then they'll use debt to pay for the rest. They don't really explain where the money comes from to pay off the debt? Cities and Entities can sell bonds, raise taxes, pass a tax hike for revenue. A business would need to charge for use of the infrastructure for the life of the loan, and likely beyond there... I mean why just break even? They need to make money. So they just lease the rights to the infrastructure to the water utility, sewer utility, DOT, etc... for the life of the structure, so we, the utility user, have to actually pay more over the long haul.

Now to the worst part... they claim this is actually "revenue neutral". Yeah, that $1 billion project with the $167 million equity down, that means a $167 million loss in tax revenue. Seriously, check this out, one of their claims is that employee taxes and the increased revenue from the construction companies.

So before we go to the numbers, just choke this down. The Trump Administration wants to screw over America. How? By letting Equity firms buy up new infrastructure and have that gift paid in part by the Construction Companies and Workers.

Now, to the numbers, the Trump Admin has it in their mind that $1 trillion will cost about one-sixth the cost in physical cash and the remainder is loans. So $167 billion in tax credits. This will be paid off by taxes on both the workers and construction companies. Assuming we go with 10% profit for the construction company, that is $15 billion in tax revenue. They assume 44% of the cost of a project goes to labor (I don't know if that is reasonable, I don't think it is as labor benefits such as health care is not taxed federally). Regardless, assuming 44%, that is $440 billion in revenue. However, the authors assume a 28% tax rate! In general, the construction worker is paying roughly an effective 10% tax rate.... (unless Trump has some surprises in the tax code for workers). So this effectively cuts their number from workers to a third, or $44 billion, which means a $100 billion shortfall.

This ignores the additional cost to taxpayers to help pay for the profit on the debt being paid for by the equity firm.

If someone can show me where my math is off, please feel free to do so. But what I see in this plan is an absolute sham.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So bankrupt government so it can't afford to provide the services, let the businesses come in and buy into a new leasing of public utilities and infrastructure. So a private business puts up little cash to build a bridge, gets a massive write-off and then signs a permanent lease with the state DOT for use of the bridge, of which I bet DOT gets the privilege of maintaining said bridge. Jesus fucking Christ! Trump wants to literally sell off America. I guess all of the property that Hedge Funds bought up in the Great Recession just wetted the appetite of private industry to buy up the nation.

Pennsylvania used it for about 600 bridges

https://www.transportation.gov/poli...ia Rapid Bridge Replacement Project,Statewide

It is a scam. Starve the beast and sell off to the equity companies.

 

[laughing dog]

Look, Trump and his GOP cronies are going to fuck up your country badly - that's a given which everyone is just going to have to accept and won't be able to do anything to stop.

You better hope not. If it gets fucked up bad enough, we will have to invade someone to take our minds off it. Canada has lots of natural resources. And we know all of you secretly want to be US citizens, so....

 

[scombrid]

So it's good to spend other people's money on stuff, but having business commit some of their own money is bad.

You apparently think okay to spend other people's money on stuff as long as that stuff ends up in private hands for private gain.

Our water management district (agent of the state department of environmental protection that oversees water resources) is doing that. They are bound by law to reduce nutrient loads to the Indian River Lagoon (we have legally established TMDLs and resulting BMAPs). One of the biggest polluters is certain agriculture. The FL government is spending tax money to build a "water farm" (treatment facility) on private ag land. It is then going to turn the "water farm" over to the polluters and pay the polluters to operate the water farm. I wish the city would pay me to clean up my poop rather than charging me a fee for it. Trump is very much a "Rick Scott" style Republican.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Look, Trump and his GOP cronies are going to fuck up your country badly - that's a given which everyone is just going to have to accept and won't be able to do anything to stop.

You better hope not. If it gets fucked up bad enough, we will have to invade someone to take our minds off it. Canada has lots of natural resources. And we know all of you secretly want to be US citizens, so....

You should want us to be US citizens as well. Out of the 30 million who live here, there's maybe four who'd have voted for Trump.

If you do want to invade, though, we are happy to torch your White House again and we're willing to do it while Trump is home.

 

[ZiprHead]

If you do want to invade, though, we are happy to torch your White House again and we're willing to do it while Trump is home.

Doesn't sound like Donny's going to be spending a lot of time there so you'll have to time it just right.