Tucker Carlson goes to Hungary

[Trausti]

Why do lefties hate Viktor Orban so much? Ah, right. He was an anti-soviet dissident and knows the terror of leftism.

There is a very common delusion among right-wingers, the delusion that left-wingers are all alike, unified and indistinguishable.

For several years after the fall of the Soviet bloc, he was committed to democracy and pluralism. But over the last decade, he has attempted to create a one-party state by rigging a democratic system. Even though he had suffered under a one-party state earlier in his life.

No. He’s a democratically elected European leader who actually cares about the interests of his own country. The horror.

 

[Jayjay]

Why do lefties hate Viktor Orban so much? Ah, right. He was an anti-soviet dissident and knows the terror of leftism.

There is a very common delusion among right-wingers, the delusion that left-wingers are all alike, unified and indistinguishable.

For several years after the fall of the Soviet bloc, he was committed to democracy and pluralism. But over the last decade, he has attempted to create a one-party state by rigging a democratic system. Even though he had suffered under a one-party state earlier in his life.

No. He’s a democratically elected European leader who actually cares about the interests of his own country. The horror.

For a very loose definition of "democratically elected", like Russia's Putin or Turkey's Erdogan. Heck, even Iran has "democratic elections" by some standard.

I don't mind Orban's policies or his interpretation of the "interests of his own country". But what I do care about is democracy. When rulers in a gives country start gerrymandering, limiting voting rights, eliminating free press, intimidating political opponents, and so on, that's a whole another level of evil.

If democracy functional, and people can vote out their leaders, then any other particular policies are secondary. In Hungary that's clearly not the case.

 

[laughing dog]

Of course, only leftists would be against his anti-semitism and anti-democratic actions. There is a big difference between what Mr. Orban was and what Mr. Orban has become.

My point was about the reasons why most left-wingers who hate him likely hate him. I made no claim that only left-wingers hate him.

Thank you for missing my point. There are very good reasons for disliking Mr. Orban for his actions now. His past is irrelevant to his current state.

In my view, people who frequently resort to labels like "leftist" are simply engaging in kneejerk reactions. I am pretty confident that Trausti has no clue why anyone would dislike or hate Mr. Orban, and reasonably confident that you have no clue.

 

[laughing dog]

Why do lefties hate Viktor Orban so much? Ah, right. He was an anti-soviet dissident and knows the terror of leftism.

There is a very common delusion among right-wingers, the delusion that left-wingers are all alike, unified and indistinguishable.

For several years after the fall of the Soviet bloc, he was committed to democracy and pluralism. But over the last decade, he has attempted to create a one-party state by rigging a democratic system. Even though he had suffered under a one-party state earlier in his life.

No. He’s a democratically elected European leader who actually cares about the interests of his own country. The horror.

I can see why a Trump supporter would view a "Christian" xenoophobic homophobic authoritarian favorably.

 

[ZiprHead]

https://everipedia.org/wiki/lang_en/kurt-schlichter

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Of course, only leftists would be against his anti-semitism and anti-democratic actions. There is a big difference between what Mr. Orban was and what Mr. Orban has become.

My point was about the reasons why most left-wingers who hate him likely hate him. I made no claim that only left-wingers hate him.

Thank you for missing my point. There are very good reasons for disliking Mr. Orban for his actions now. His past is irrelevant to his current state.

In my view, people who frequently resort to labels like "leftist" are simply engaging in kneejerk reactions. I am pretty confident that Trausti has no clue why anyone would dislike or hate Mr. Orban, and reasonably confident that you have no clue.

You miss my point. Left-wingers believe that their left-wing ideology is true (else, they would not be left-wingers!). Orban goes against it time and again. So, if they hate him, it is probably for that, and of course they take themselves to be on the right. And they probably are right on some issues, and wrong on others. My analysis, however, does not depend on how many of the left-wing views Orban goes against are correct.

 

[ZiprHead]

Thank you for missing my point. There are very good reasons for disliking Mr. Orban for his actions now. His past is irrelevant to his current state.

In my view, people who frequently resort to labels like "leftist" are simply engaging in kneejerk reactions. I am pretty confident that Trausti has no clue why anyone would dislike or hate Mr. Orban, and reasonably confident that you have no clue.

You miss my point. Left-wingers believe that their left-wing ideology is true (else, they would not be left-wingers!). Orban goes against it time and again. So, if they hate him, it is probably for that, and of course they take themselves to be on the right. And they probably are right on some issues, and wrong on others. My analysis, however, does not depend on how many of the left-wing views Orban goes against are correct.

I think a better question would be what is Orban right about?

 

[laughing dog]

Thank you for missing my point. There are very good reasons for disliking Mr. Orban for his actions now. His past is irrelevant to his current state.

In my view, people who frequently resort to labels like "leftist" are simply engaging in kneejerk reactions. I am pretty confident that Trausti has no clue why anyone would dislike or hate Mr. Orban, and reasonably confident that you have no clue.

You miss my point. Left-wingers believe that their left-wing ideology is true (else, they would not be left-wingers!). Orban goes against it time and again. So, if they hate him, it is probably for that, and of course they take themselves to be on the right. And they probably are right on some issues, and wrong on others. My analysis, however, does not depend on how many of the left-wing views Orban goes against are correct.

Are you saying that Mr. Orban's xenophobia and/or homphobia are correct or are you really that clueless about the "left wing"?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Thank you for missing my point. There are very good reasons for disliking Mr. Orban for his actions now. His past is irrelevant to his current state.

In my view, people who frequently resort to labels like "leftist" are simply engaging in kneejerk reactions. I am pretty confident that Trausti has no clue why anyone would dislike or hate Mr. Orban, and reasonably confident that you have no clue.

You miss my point. Left-wingers believe that their left-wing ideology is true (else, they would not be left-wingers!). Orban goes against it time and again. So, if they hate him, it is probably for that, and of course they take themselves to be on the right. And they probably are right on some issues, and wrong on others. My analysis, however, does not depend on how many of the left-wing views Orban goes against are correct.

Are you saying that Mr. Orban's xenophobia and/or homphobia are correct or are you really that clueless about the "left wing"?

No, I am not saying xenophobia or homophobia are correct.
Of course, I do not always agree with usual left-wing assessments about what constitutes homophobia or xenophobia. In the case of Orban, usually left-wingers get the former right, and the latter not so much. Not because he's not xenophobic, but because some of his points about the risks of uncontrolled massive migration are generally correct, though the conspiracy theories he espouses are nonsense.

At any rate, that is not the point. Left-wingers will probably hate him because he goes against their left-wing ideology, and they believe that ideology to be correct.

 

[laughing dog]

Are you saying that Mr. Orban's xenophobia and/or homphobia are correct or are you really that clueless about the "left wing"?

No, I am not saying xenophobia or homophobia are correct.
Of course, I do not always agree with usual left-wing assessments about what constitutes homophobia or xenophobia. In the case of Orban, usually left-wingers get the former right, and the latter not so much. Not because he's not xenophobic, but because some of his points about the risks of uncontrolled massive migration are generally correct, though the conspiracy theories he espouses are nonsense.[
[

At any rate, that is not the point. Left-wingers will probably hate him because he goes against their left-wing ideology, and they believe that ideology to be correct.

Thanks for the confirmation about your cluelessness about left wingers.

 

[lpetrich]

View attachment 34782
View attachment 34783

Despite his talk about "freedom", he doesn't seem to want any freedom for anyone that he dislikes.

Nationalize big tech??? Big tech is composed of businesses, not government agencies, and right-wingers claim to be for anything goes when it's a business that does it.

As to making "conservatism their operational ideology", what does he want? Ideological commissars supervising big tech and the news media and academia?

Property and military service qualifications for voting? What does he want? One dollar one vote?

Increase America's carbon footprint -- this seems like wanting to own the libs more than anything else. Ban masks??? Is that anything more than hating something that the lib-buh-ruhls like???

Those tweets seem rather fascist to me.

 

[Patooka]

Are you saying that Mr. Orban's xenophobia and/or homphobia are correct or are you really that clueless about the "left wing"?

No, I am not saying xenophobia or homophobia are correct.
Of course, I do not always agree with usual left-wing assessments about what constitutes homophobia or xenophobia. In the case of Orban, usually left-wingers get the former right, and the latter not so much. Not because he's not xenophobic, but because some of his points about the risks of uncontrolled massive migration are generally correct, though the conspiracy theories he espouses are nonsense.[
[

At any rate, that is not the point. Left-wingers will probably hate him because he goes against their left-wing ideology, and they believe that ideology to be correct.

Thanks for the confirmation about your cluelessness about left wingers.

^This. Very much this. I can't think of a single person who subscribes to such attitudes. And I can't think of an instance where such attitudes could be described to such a movement. Which is ironic considering the proponent of such a belief.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Thanks for the confirmation about your cluelessness about left wingers.

^This. Very much this. I can't think of a single person who subscribes to such attitudes. And I can't think of an instance where such attitudes could be described to such a movement. Which is ironic considering the proponent of such a belief.

Obviously, I am not suggesting that left-wingers who hate him consciously subscribe to 'I hate him because he goes against my left-wing ideology'. I'm pointing out why he is hated. And you can see on this forum how most left-wingers express their animosity towards those who go against their left-wing ideology in a gazillion threads. The attitude I'm describing is ubiquitous among left-wingers (and of course, among right-wingers).

 

[laughing dog]

Thanks for the confirmation about your cluelessness about left wingers.

^This. Very much this. I can't think of a single person who subscribes to such attitudes. And I can't think of an instance where such attitudes could be described to such a movement. Which is ironic considering the proponent of such a belief.

Obviously, I am not suggesting that left-wingers who hate him consciously subscribe to 'I hate him because he goes against my left-wing ideology'. I'm pointing out why he is hated. And you can see on this forum how most left-wingers express their animosity towards those who go against their left-wing ideology in a gazillion threads. The attitude I'm describing is ubiquitous among left-wingers (and of course, among right-wingers).

You can see in this forum how most right wing reactionaries express their cluelessness towards those who post their ideological bias in numerous threads. Your response is a perfect example of the clueless bs spouted on a regular basis.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Obviously, I am not suggesting that left-wingers who hate him consciously subscribe to 'I hate him because he goes against my left-wing ideology'. I'm pointing out why he is hated. And you can see on this forum how most left-wingers express their animosity towards those who go against their left-wing ideology in a gazillion threads. The attitude I'm describing is ubiquitous among left-wingers (and of course, among right-wingers).

You can see in this forum how most right wing reactionaries express their cluelessness towards those who post their ideological bias in numerous threads. Your response is a perfect example of the clueless bs spouted on a regular basis.

No; you're just ideologically blinded (as are nearly all wingers, left of right).

 

[laughing dog]

Obviously, I am not suggesting that left-wingers who hate him consciously subscribe to 'I hate him because he goes against my left-wing ideology'. I'm pointing out why he is hated. And you can see on this forum how most left-wingers express their animosity towards those who go against their left-wing ideology in a gazillion threads. The attitude I'm describing is ubiquitous among left-wingers (and of course, among right-wingers).

You can see in this forum how most right wing reactionaries express their cluelessness towards those who post their ideological bias in numerous threads. Your response is a perfect example of the clueless bs spouted on a regular basis.

No; you're just ideologically blinded (as are nearly all wingers, left of right).

The irony of your idealogically driven clueless bs is obvious.

 

[Patooka]

Obviously, I am not suggesting that left-wingers who hate him consciously subscribe to 'I hate him because he goes against my left-wing ideology'.

Well, that's a relief.

I'm pointing out why he is hated. And you can see on this forum how most left-wingers express their animosity towards those who go against their left-wing ideology in a gazillion threads. The attitude I'm describing is ubiquitous among left-wingers (and of course, among right-wingers).

A succinct way of saying that is you believe leftists hate him because of their left-wing ideology. Do you even know what the fuck you're talking about, let alone who you are talking about? But please continue to articulate my reasons for disliking Orban because clearly I don't have a fucking clue why I am doing this.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

A succinct way of saying that is you believe leftists hate him because of their left-wing ideology.

That would be inaccurate.

First, I do not claim that leftists hate him. Some do, most don't because they never heard of him.

Second, I do not claim that those leftists who do hate him do so because of their ideology. I say that most of the leftists who hate them do so because he implements policies that go against their ideology, so they reckon that those policies are unethical. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they do not.

Do you even know what the fuck you're talking about, let alone who you are talking about?

Yes.

But please continue to articulate my reasons for disliking Orban because clearly I don't have a fucking clue why I am doing this.

I talked about the reasons of most leftists. I do not know you're among them. I would say probably for statistical reasons, and also given your posts in this and other threads.

 

[Patooka]

Second, I do not claim that those leftists who do hate him do so because of their ideology. I say that most of the leftists who hate them do so because he implements policies that go against their ideology, so they reckon that those policies are unethical. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they do not.

Well, that's about as constructive as saying, "I don't like eating meat because I'm a vegetarian".

 

[laughing dog]

Obviously, I am not suggesting that left-wingers who hate him consciously subscribe to 'I hate him because he goes against my left-wing ideology'.

Well, that's a relief.

I'm pointing out why he is hated. And you can see on this forum how most left-wingers express their animosity towards those who go against their left-wing ideology in a gazillion threads. The attitude I'm describing is ubiquitous among left-wingers (and of course, among right-wingers).

A succinct way of saying that is you believe leftists hate him because of their left-wing ideology. Do you even know what the fuck you're talking about, let alone who you are talking about? But please continue to articulate my reasons for disliking Orban because clearly I don't have a fucking clue why I am doing this.

Of course, it has nothing to do with his anti-semitism, his homophobia, his attacks on Hungarian Roma, his limits of freedom of speech and academic freedom or his erosion of judicial independence - all of which are only anathemas to the "left wing".