Turkey shoots down Russian Jet

[Crazy Eddie]

Russia claims the jet was in Syrian airspace the whole time. Turkey claims they warned the plane for violating their airspace.
[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/LW1qGWw5PBU[/YOUTUBE]


https://www.rt.com/news/323215-warplane-crash-syria-turkey/

Turkish presidential sources told Reuters that the warplane shot down by Turkey was a "Russian-made" SU-24, adding that it was downed in line with Turkey's rules of engagement after violating Ankara's airspace. Turkish media previously reported that the presidential sources have confirmed the plane was a Russian jet, but then clarified that this was simply in reference to the fact that the downed aircraft is reported in the media to be a Russian plane.
In a statement, the Turkish military said a plane of unknown origin was shot down after it violated Turkish airspace despite repeated warnings. The aircraft was warned 10 times in five minutes, the military said.
It said two Turkis F-16s were involved in the shooting down of the jet.

http://www.todayszaman.com/latest-news_turkey-shoots-down-warplane-near-syria-border_405108.html

In reality, it's probably a case of mistaken identity.

The Turkey simply mistook the jet for Santa's Sleigh.

I think it's high time somebody roasted that Turkey.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

First time russian plane flew into Turkey they were royally pissed, which was a bit surprising to me. I think people and especially russians underestimate how uninterested Turkey is in defeating ISIS.

Yeah, Turkey certainly isn't interested in stopping ISIS. I have heard it claimed they are supporting them although I don't know how credible that is. Given the recent Islamist bent of the Turkish government it wouldn't exactly shock me.

It's kind of surprising where they seem to be falling on this conflict, since even Islamist movements are leery of the enormous amount of crazy that ISIS has cultivated.

But when you look at it a second time, how ISIS presents itself, how they act, the entire "chaotic evil" they've built around themselves, maybe it really IS just a put-on. It would not completely surprise me if ISIS turned out to be a Turkish proxy.

 

[funinspace]

Oh, the ironies from 2012:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18584872

Mr Erdogan spoke of Turkey's "rage" at the decision to shoot down the F-4 Phantom on 22 June and described Syria as a "clear and present threat".

"A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he said. The Turkish jet was on a training flight, testing Turkey's radars in the eastern Mediterranean, he said.

Funny how it doesn't work the other way around....Syria evidently didn't have a right to defend its territory.

 

[bilby]

 

[fromderinside]

View attachment 4837

Prayer seen in the mystery of his eyes:

"Damn I can't claim I'm protecting our own
because that's exactly what Turkey is doing."
"How to spin, how to spin?"
"Oh shit. Now I'm getting dizzy."
"Gawdamnit!"

 

[barbos]

Erdogan is insane. He actually blurted in some internal speech that Turkey was protecting syrian turkmans when they shot russian plane.
And I just listened to supposed turkish audio warnings. I know pilots are supposed to be able to understand special version of aviation english, but there is no way anybody in the world could understand that garbage.

 

[tupac chopra]

Erdogan is insane. He actually blurted in some internal speech that Turkey was protecting syrian turkmans when they shot russian plane.
And I just listened to supposed turkish audio warnings. I know pilots are supposed to be able to understand special version of aviation english, but there is no way anybody in the world could understand that garbage.

Would Turkey do something so dangerous unless ity had been okayed by Washington?
George Abert, Formerly Of Air Force Intelligence think that they were put up to it. Who knows. It was certainly rash, and unlikely to pay off.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/201...rge-abert-formerly-of-air-force-intelligence/

Turkey is so militarily inferior to Russia that it is unlikely Turkey would commit an act of war against Russia without encouragement from Washington. We might think that Turkey would feel shielded by NATO, but it is doubtful that many European members of NATO would risk nuclear annihiliation by going to war with Russia in order to save Turkey from the consequences of such a reckless and irresponsible act as shooting down a Russian military aircraft and lying about it. Turkey has issued no apology and no believable explanation. Unless Erdogan has lost his mind, Washington is behind the shootdown, and the reason is Washington’s desperation to decode the new Russian technology that gives Russian forces total control over a battlefield, whether on land, sea, or air.

When the Russians deployed their forces to Syria they also deployed some new stealth technology. So far as I know they’ve only used this technology in Syria twice, once during their first sortie and one other time when some Israeli Air Force jets entered what they knew was Russian operational airspace.

As noted, the first use of this stealth technology was during the first Russian sortie. In accordance with protocols agreed to beforehand with Israel and the US, the Russians informed the US of their intent to launch a sortie. They did so an hour prior to the launch. When they did they also employed a new stealth technology. The technology effectively blinded both the US and Israel. None of the radars worked and most, if not all, satellite coverage was lost or compromised as well. But there’s more.

 

[barbos]

Would Turkey do something so dangerous unless ity had been okayed by Washington?
George Abert, Formerly Of Air Force Intelligence think that they were put up to it. Who knows. It was certainly rash, and unlikely to pay off.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/201...rge-abert-formerly-of-air-force-intelligence/

Turkey is so militarily inferior to Russia that it is unlikely Turkey would commit an act of war against Russia without encouragement from Washington. We might think that Turkey would feel shielded by NATO, but it is doubtful that many European members of NATO would risk nuclear annihiliation by going to war with Russia in order to save Turkey from the consequences of such a reckless and irresponsible act as shooting down a Russian military aircraft and lying about it. Turkey has issued no apology and no believable explanation. Unless Erdogan has lost his mind, Washington is behind the shootdown, and the reason is Washington’s desperation to decode the new Russian technology that gives Russian forces total control over a battlefield, whether on land, sea, or air.

When the Russians deployed their forces to Syria they also deployed some new stealth technology. So far as I know they’ve only used this technology in Syria twice, once during their first sortie and one other time when some Israeli Air Force jets entered what they knew was Russian operational airspace.

As noted, the first use of this stealth technology was during the first Russian sortie. In accordance with protocols agreed to beforehand with Israel and the US, the Russians informed the US of their intent to launch a sortie. They did so an hour prior to the launch. When they did they also employed a new stealth technology. The technology effectively blinded both the US and Israel. None of the radars worked and most, if not all, satellite coverage was lost or compromised as well. But there’s more.

Sounds like a complete nonsense to me.
US would never suggest nor approve such provocations and Erdogan is pretty "capable" to come up with such "idea" by himself.
And stealth technology sounds like bullshit. I am sure Russia has some jammers which are pretty capable with older radars
But modern active arrays radars are impossible to jam. Don't know what Israel have, but F22 has active array.

 

[Will Wiley]

Would Turkey do something so dangerous unless ity had been okayed by Washington?
George Abert, Formerly Of Air Force Intelligence think that they were put up to it. Who knows. It was certainly rash, and unlikely to pay off.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/201...rge-abert-formerly-of-air-force-intelligence/

Sounds like a complete nonsense to me.
US would never suggest nor approve such provocations

Some of them would.

and Erdogan is pretty "capable" to come up with such "idea" by himself.

Except that the Americans knew the flight path

The Russian leader said, under the cooperation already established with the U.S.-led coalition, Russia's military had passed on details of the flight plan of the jet that was shot down this week.

"Why did we pass this information to the Americans? Either they were not controlling what their allies were doing, or they are leaking this information all over the place," Putin said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015...tin-idUSKBN0TF2D320151127#KaiOAhHuIbJOhH5l.97

And stealth technology sounds like bullshit. I am sure Russia has some jammers which are pretty capable with older radars
But modern active arrays radars are impossible to jam. Don't know what Israel have, but F22 has active array.

I presume if George Albert worked for air Force Intelligence he might know some things we don't. He must have some contacts we don't. But he could be crazy I guess. He wouldn't be the only one

 

[barbos]

Sounds like a complete nonsense to me.
US would never suggest nor approve such provocations

Some of them would.

and Erdogan is pretty "capable" to come up with such "idea" by himself.

Except that the Americans knew the flight path

Does not mean they shared it with Turkey.

The Russian leader said, under the cooperation already established with the U.S.-led coalition, Russia's military had passed on details of the flight plan of the jet that was shot down this week.

"Why did we pass this information to the Americans? Either they were not controlling what their allies were doing, or they are leaking this information all over the place," Putin said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015...tin-idUSKBN0TF2D320151127#KaiOAhHuIbJOhH5l.97

And stealth technology sounds like bullshit. I am sure Russia has some jammers which are pretty capable with older radars
But modern active arrays radars are impossible to jam. Don't know what Israel have, but F22 has active array.

I presume if George Albert worked for air Force Intelligence he might know some things we don't.

He maybe knows more, but I doubt he understands more than me. I think israel have passive array radars, they are pretty jamable.
just checked, active arrays are relatively new, F16 got them them starting 2003. So chances are, israel and certainly turkey have passive radars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_electronically_scanned_array

 

[Will Wiley]

Does not mean they shared it with Turkey.

No It doesn't but is makes something already suspicious look even more suspicious. But Putin by saying that is applying pressure on both of them.

He maybe knows more, but I doubt he understands more than me.

How up to date is your technical knowledge?

 

[barbos]

No It doesn't but is makes something already suspicious look even more suspicious. But Putin by saying that is applying pressure on both of them.

Well, I don't know when russians started sharing info with US. So if it was on day before the shooting then yes that would look suspicious.
But I think Turlkey are pretty capable to track planes near their border.

He maybe knows more, but I doubt he understands more than me.

How up to date is your technical knowledge?

I think it's a bit uptodatier than that author's. I think he described passive array radars and called them advanced, but they are not advanced anymore, active array radars are. Basically, it's possible for Russia to jam israel planes but it's not some alien technology. Israel can do the same.

 

[Will Wiley]

Would Turkey do something so dangerous unless ity had been okayed by Washington?
George Abert, Formerly Of Air Force Intelligence think that they were put up to it. Who knows. It was certainly rash, and unlikely to pay off.

It seems to be working out very badly for Turkey (or for Erdogan anyway)

Russia destroys Turkish truck convoy headed for Syrian militants -- Erdogan silent

If the USA did put Turkey up to it Turkey and the terrorists will be pissed off. And if Turkey did it on their own the the USA may hang them out to dry now.

Since yesterday, Russia has been mounting massive air and artillery strikes (with the Syrian army) in the border areas with Turkey. And it means the destruction of the supply infrastructure, which was established by Turkey in these years of the war in Syria. P.S. We learn from the Turkish press that 20 trucks were destroyed, seven killed, and 10 were injured by the strikes and the consequent fires.

 

[barbos]

For US to be able to put Erdogan up to it, he (Erdogan) have to be stupid.
And why would US do such a thing? Simpler explanation is that Erdogan is known for his impulsiveness, he did not like Russia destroying his son's oil business and ordered to shoot a russian plane without thinking it through.

 

[Will Wiley]

For US to be able to put Erdogan up to it, he (Erdogan) have to be stupid.
And why would US do such a thing? Simpler explanation is that Erdogan is known for his impulsiveness, he did not like Russia destroying his son's oil business and ordered to shoot a russian plane without thinking it through.

Yes, that could well be right, but in that case the rest of NATO must be pissed off. Do the European NATO countries such as Germany want a confrontation with nuclear armed Russia? The United states is out of reach of cruise missiles but not so for Europe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_FoL8Wm_uw

 

[barbos]

For US to be able to put Erdogan up to it, he (Erdogan) have to be stupid.
And why would US do such a thing? Simpler explanation is that Erdogan is known for his impulsiveness, he did not like Russia destroying his son's oil business and ordered to shoot a russian plane without thinking it through.

Yes, that could well be right, but in that case the rest of NATO must be pissed off.

I bet they are, but Turkey is in NATO and NATO have to support them. At least in words because if they don't then eastern Europe countries would say "What the fuck? you are not going to protect NATO members from Russia?"
Turkey in NATO is a remnant of the cold War. They don't quite belong there, not with Erdogan at least.

 

[Will Wiley]

How up to date is your technical knowledge?

I think it's a bit uptodatier than that author's. I think he described passive array radars and called them advanced, but they are not advanced anymore, active array radars are. Basically, it's possible for Russia to jam israel planes but it's not some alien technology. Israel can do the same.

According to some reports they demonstrated something as far back as April 2014
http://osnetdaily.com/2015/10/russi...-inside-bubble-600-km-in-diameter-over-syria/

I presume this is the kind of thing you refer to...or not?

“The US destroyer USS Donald Cook, equipped with Tomahawk cruise missiles entered the neutral waters of the Black Sea on April 10, 2014. The purpose was a demonstration of force and intimidation in connection with the position of Russia in Ukraine and Crimea. The appearance of American warships in these waters is in contradiction of the Montreux Convention about the nature and duration of stay in the Black Sea by the military ships of countries not washed by this sea. In response, Russia sent an unarmed bomber Su- 24 to fly around the U.S. destroyer. However, experts say that this plane was equipped with the latest Russian electronic warfare complex. According to this version, Aegis spotted from afar the approaching aircraft, and sounded alarm. Everything went normally, and the American radars calculated the speed of the approaching target. But suddenly all the screens went blank. Aegis was not working any more, and the rockets could not get target information. Meanwhile, Su-24 flew over the deck of the destroyer, did battle turn and simulated a missile attack on the target. Then it turned and repeated the maneuver. And did so 12 times.”

Or this?
Advanced system to guard Russia from hi-tech surveillance, drone attacks

Which was apparently spotted in Syria.

Jamming the Jihad: Russian Electronic Warfare Systems Spotted in Syria

There does seem to be talk of something new and unique

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Would Turkey do something so dangerous unless ity had been okayed by Washington?
George Abert, Formerly Of Air Force Intelligence think that they were put up to it. Who knows. It was certainly rash, and unlikely to pay off.

Turkey is going Islamist. They aren't going to care much about what we want.

 

[barbos]

I think it's a bit uptodatier than that author's. I think he described passive array radars and called them advanced, but they are not advanced anymore, active array radars are. Basically, it's possible for Russia to jam israel planes but it's not some alien technology. Israel can do the same.

According to some reports they demonstrated something as far back as April 2014
http://osnetdaily.com/2015/10/russi...-inside-bubble-600-km-in-diameter-over-syria/

I presume this is the kind of thing you refer to...or not?

“The US destroyer USS Donald Cook, equipped with Tomahawk cruise missiles entered the neutral waters of the Black Sea on April 10, 2014. The purpose was a demonstration of force and intimidation in connection with the position of Russia in Ukraine and Crimea. The appearance of American warships in these waters is in contradiction of the Montreux Convention about the nature and duration of stay in the Black Sea by the military ships of countries not washed by this sea. In response, Russia sent an unarmed bomber Su- 24 to fly around the U.S. destroyer. However, experts say that this plane was equipped with the latest Russian electronic warfare complex. According to this version, Aegis spotted from afar the approaching aircraft, and sounded alarm. Everything went normally, and the American radars calculated the speed of the approaching target. But suddenly all the screens went blank. Aegis was not working any more, and the rockets could not get target information. Meanwhile, Su-24 flew over the deck of the destroyer, did battle turn and simulated a missile attack on the target. Then it turned and repeated the maneuver. And did so 12 times.”

Or this?
Advanced system to guard Russia from hi-tech surveillance, drone attacks

Which was apparently spotted in Syria.

Jamming the Jihad: Russian Electronic Warfare Systems Spotted in Syria

There does seem to be talk of something new and unique

F22 are and newer version of F16/F15 are impossible to jam.
I mean you can use white noise with very limited range and that's it.
And most F16/F15 US/israel have are older. Wikipedia says these first unjamable F16 went to UAE.

 

[barbos]

Would Turkey do something so dangerous unless ity had been okayed by Washington?
George Abert, Formerly Of Air Force Intelligence think that they were put up to it. Who knows. It was certainly rash, and unlikely to pay off.

Turkey is going Islamist. They aren't going to care much about what we want.

More like Erdogan is going islamist. Turkish Army is strictly secular and they already tried to intervene but failed. But if Erdogan will keep going in that direction they will really intervene.