UK Conservative Party Wins! Shows What's To Come For U.S.

[Jimmy Higgins]

To a certain extent, this was the "second referendum" that the remoaners wanted, and Brexit thumped remain.

Which is why the anti-Brexit parties (Labour, the Liberal Democrats, and the SNP) received more votes than the pro-Brexit ones (Conservatives and the Brexit party)....

You mean that the liberal parties had over 50% of the vote and the conservative parties were less than 50%, so bragging about how Brexit won again would be a bit misunderstanding the voting results?

 

[ruby sparks]

One thing that annoys me is that older and retired people (66+) voted strongly for Brexit and the under 25's voted strongly against it. My guess is that many of the latter were living in Days-of-British-Empireland, and by and large many will have non-modern, anti-multiculturalist views to boot. But it is the younger generation that are going to have to deal with the result.

 

[ruby sparks]

Poor people, who had arguably suffered most because of the recession, via the austerity policies that followed, were persuaded that leaving the EU would solve things. I think it was probably all a big lie. Imo, they are more likely to get shafted even more as Britain tries to morph into a US state, where, as we have seen, the benefits mostly go to a very small elite. It was the EU that provided most of the worker's rights and protections. Now all that is likely to become more and more deregulated. I'm thinking turkeys voting for christmas might turn out to have been a good metaphor.

I hope I'm wrong. I allow that I may be.

One has to applaud the Brexiteers timing. I doubt this would have happened in economic good times. One can only hope that the Conservative's austerity policies of the last decade (which have now suddenly dropped off the Conservative agenda) were not a calculated strategy in the run up to having a referendum vote. I guess that's going a bit far to say that. I don't think Cameron thought leave would win.

 

[ruby sparks]

I presume most people know that 'man of the common people', blokey, English flag-waver, beer drinker, pint-puller and (until recently) photo-opportunity smoker, Nigel Farage, had a private education, and that his father was a stockbroker?




Why can I not post pics today? New server?

 

[ZiprHead]

It seems pretty much that this was a single issue election. I wonder how it would have gone without that issue.

 

[bilby]

Member states shouldn't be allowed to leave, or make any far reaching changes, on the basis of a crude non-binding simple majority opinion poll.

It is surely the case that whether a member state should be allowed to leave should be up to that member state.

Of course.

It's also the case that a tiny majority in a crude non-binding opinion poll is not "the will of" a nation state.

The only conclusion you can draw from the result of the 2016 poll is that on the simple question 'remain or leave?' the public were, three years ago, almost exactly evenly split. That's not a mandate to turn their country upside down.

 

[Gun Nut]

UK leftists were saying, "We have this election in the bag! Nobody votes for conservatives anymore! The younger generation is rising up!" Turns out, that's a big fat NOPE!

Same thing is happening in the U.S. Leftists think Trump's goose is cooked, just like they said in 2016. Don't get your hopes up and you won't be disappointed when Trump wins again.

The conservative party didn't just win in the UK... They won in a landslide not seen in many decades...
Is that your prediction of the 2020 election? Trump will win in a record landslide (since Reagan, to be fair and comparable)?

You do realize that the vote for the conservative party was a vote for Brexit, right?

 

[Metaphor]

One thing that annoys me is that older and retired people (66+) voted strongly for Brexit and the under 25's voted strongly against it. My guess is that many of the latter were living in Days-of-British-Empireland, and by and large many will have non-modern, anti-multiculturalist views to boot. But it is the younger generation that are going to have to deal with the result.

This kind of ageism gets such an easy pass.

Has it occurred to you that older voters might have in their living memory what Britain was like before it joined the European Communities and are the only ones with a point of comparison?

 

[Half-Life]

UK leftists were saying, "We have this election in the bag! Nobody votes for conservatives anymore! The younger generation is rising up!" Turns out, that's a big fat NOPE!

Same thing is happening in the U.S. Leftists think Trump's goose is cooked, just like they said in 2016. Don't get your hopes up and you won't be disappointed when Trump wins again.

The conservative party didn't just win in the UK... They won in a landslide not seen in many decades...
Is that your prediction of the 2020 election? Trump will win in a record landslide (since Reagan, to be fair and comparable)?

You do realize that the vote for the conservative party was a vote for Brexit, right?

Yes, people want their country safe. Can't blame them.

But all we heard was, "Baby boomers are dying out!! Conservatives are never gonna win another election!!!"

Then 2016 Trump won. Now Johnson wins.

Turns out conservatives ain't going anywhere. People want strong borders and are tired of immigrants stealing people's jobs. Let in less people = jobs can be done by people of that country.

 

[Metaphor]

Member states shouldn't be allowed to leave, or make any far reaching changes, on the basis of a crude non-binding simple majority opinion poll.

It is surely the case that whether a member state should be allowed to leave should be up to that member state.

Of course.

Then you ought be a bit more careful saying "member states shouldn't be allowed to leave..."

Member states should be allowed to leave for any reason or no reason at all.

 

[bilby]

UK leftists were saying, "We have this election in the bag! Nobody votes for conservatives anymore! The younger generation is rising up!" Turns out, that's a big fat NOPE!

Same thing is happening in the U.S. Leftists think Trump's goose is cooked, just like they said in 2016. Don't get your hopes up and you won't be disappointed when Trump wins again.

The conservative party didn't just win in the UK... They won in a landslide not seen in many decades...
Is that your prediction of the 2020 election? Trump will win in a record landslide (since Reagan, to be fair and comparable)?

You do realize that the vote for the conservative party was a vote for Brexit, right?

They won a lot of seats; But this is an artifact of the First Past the Post, Single Member Constituency voting system - they won less than half of the vote nationwide.

And the total vote cast for pro-Brexit candidates was about 48%, vs 52% for anti-Brexit (or at least, pro-second referendum) candidates.

 

[bilby]

Of course.

Then you ought be a bit more careful saying "member states shouldn't be allowed to leave..."

Member states should be allowed to leave for any reason or no reason at all.

No state should be allowed to do ANYTHING on the basis of a crude non-binding simple majority opinion poll. Because that really is 'no reason at all', and making massive and unpredictable changes for no reason at all is batshit insane.

In a representative democracy, the sovereign body that governs a state shouldn't be subordinate and beholden to crude opinion polling. Any holder of the executive power (be it a monarch, Prime Minister, or President) who attempts to subordinate a sovereign parliament on the basis of a such a poll, is engaging in a coup d'état.

 

[Jarhyn]

Of course.

Then you ought be a bit more careful saying "member states shouldn't be allowed to leave..."

Member states should be allowed to leave for any reason or no reason at all.

No state should be allowed to do ANYTHING on the basis of a crude non-binding simple majority opinion poll. Because that really is 'no reason at all', and making massive and unpredictable changes for no reason at all is batshit insane.

To be fair batshit insane jingoism and xenophobia is, in fact, a reason. It's just a bad reason.

 

[ruby sparks]

Has it occurred to you that older voters might have in their living memory what Britain was like before it joined the European Communities and are the only ones with a point of comparison?

Has it occurred to you that you don't know what you're talking about? Britain's post-war economy as compared (relatively) to the countries already in the EEC, had been in steady decline for almost 25 years running before it joined in 1973. Which is precisely why it joined, so that its economy did not get left behind. After it joined, its economy, relative to the countries in the EEC (and later the EU) stabilised, and has remained stable, more or less ever since.

 

[bilby]

One thing that annoys me is that older and retired people (66+) voted strongly for Brexit and the under 25's voted strongly against it. My guess is that many of the latter were living in Days-of-British-Empireland, and by and large many will have non-modern, anti-multiculturalist views to boot. But it is the younger generation that are going to have to deal with the result.

This kind of ageism gets such an easy pass.

Has it occurred to you that older voters might have in their living memory what Britain was like before it joined the European Communities and are the only ones with a point of comparison?

So you're suggesting that those voters want Britain to return to an early seventies, pre-EEC, economy, with many large industries - railways, steel, shipbuilding, car manufacturing, gas, telecommunications, postal services, etc., etc., owned by the government?

If so, why didn't Corbyn win in a landslide?

 

[Metaphor]

Has it occurred to you that older voters might have in their living memory what Britain was like before it joined the European Communities and are the only ones with a point of comparison?

Has it occurred to you that you don't know what you're talking about? Britain's post-war economy as compared (relatively) to the countries already in the EEC, had been in steady decline for almost 25 years running before it joined in 1973. Which is precisely why it joined, so that its economy did not get left behind. After it joined, its economy, relative to the countries in the EEC (and later the EU) stabilised, and has remained stable, more or less ever since.

How does the above in any way support that I don't know what I'm talking about? Is it not the case that older voters have a point of comparison in their living memory that younger voters do not?

 

[Metaphor]

One thing that annoys me is that older and retired people (66+) voted strongly for Brexit and the under 25's voted strongly against it. My guess is that many of the latter were living in Days-of-British-Empireland, and by and large many will have non-modern, anti-multiculturalist views to boot. But it is the younger generation that are going to have to deal with the result.

This kind of ageism gets such an easy pass.

Has it occurred to you that older voters might have in their living memory what Britain was like before it joined the European Communities and are the only ones with a point of comparison?

So you're suggesting that those voters want Britain to return to an early seventies, pre-EEC, economy,

No. I'm asserting that they have a memory of pre-EU Britain that younger voters don't.

 

[Metaphor]

Of course.

Then you ought be a bit more careful saying "member states shouldn't be allowed to leave..."

Member states should be allowed to leave for any reason or no reason at all.

No state should be allowed to do ANYTHING on the basis of a crude non-binding simple majority opinion poll. Because that really is 'no reason at all', and making massive and unpredictable changes for no reason at all is batshit insane.

In a representative democracy, the sovereign body that governs a state shouldn't be subordinate and beholden to crude opinion polling. Any holder of the executive power (be it a monarch, Prime Minister, or President) who attempts to subordinate a sovereign parliament on the basis of a such a poll, is engaging in a coup d'état.

Why is the opinion poll "crude"!?

In any case, if they didn't want the people's say, they ought not have put it to the people. But don't put it to the people and then say "we do not care about, and will not respect, your answer".

 

[bilby]

So you're suggesting that those voters want Britain to return to an early seventies, pre-EEC, economy,

No. I'm asserting that they have a memory of pre-EU Britain that younger voters don't.

A memory, judging by their votes, in which things were unacceptably socialist and awful, but at least there weren't so many fucking foreigners about.

I have a memory of Britain before the EEC, and it was seriously fucking grim. But foreigners 'knew their place', at least insofar as they rightly expected to get beaten up by the NF if they didn't keep their heads down (and occasionally even if they did). Perhaps it was better in London and the Home Counties; But it was seriously grim up north.

People my age and older look back at the 60s and 70s as a wonderful time, and it was - because we were YOUNG. Nostalgia is a shit basis for voting to fuck everything up; And no matter how much we fuck things up, it won't make us young again.

 

[repoman]

With globalization happening and high immigration rate which effect high and low status and income people differently, are racists being SPOTLIGHTED as a way to discredit all objections to the high immigration rates?

If you have non mobile job skills (non tech mostly) and poor are a renter you don't want more people pushing up rent and lowering wages and crowding the commute and don't care about freedom of movement so much since you have no savings.

If you are a landlord, have portable job skills this is reversed.