UK Labour party can't say what a woman is.

[Jarhyn]

I'll address the rest of the nonsense in your post when I have more time, but this takes priority...

woman who cried "rape" but had no witnesses or physical evidence

You show me the time that has happened and you actually believed her.

I can point to a number of incidents, including one involving a SCOTUS judge where said judge showed a calendar with a clear candidate for the night of the events therein clearly marked out, and a pattern of similar behavior and evasions on the subject and you still didn't believe the person who said a rape was attempted.

None of that ever happened. It is a figment of your imagination. You are making false damaging claims about me with malice and with reckless disregard for the truth, because I'm in your outgroup and you reserve moral consideration for your ingroup, so you just don't give damn whether what you say about me is true or not as long as you think you're putting me in my place. You obviously have me mixed up with some other poster, and you knew when you wrote that garbage about me that you don't care about the individuality of people in your outgroup, so you knew mixing up your opponents is the sort of error you're liable to make, and you still decided not to fact-check what you wrote before you posted it. Shame on you.

I'm not responsible for scumming through your history. If you wish to disprove the claim, show me. That's all this form of disproof takes is counterexamples.

You do clearly know what you've said, so please enlighten us. Have you said you believe Kabenaugh's accuser? I will gladly and humbly apologize if you can find some, wherein you believe a rape accuser with even as much evidence as she had, and given forth by the accused.

You're so incensed by my inability to fact check this that you... Also fail to fact check it?

 

[TomC]

I'm not responsible for scumming through your history.

If you're going to make accusations like that then you are definitely responsible for backing them up.

If you wish to disprove the claim, show me. That's all this form of disproof takes is counterexamples.

Nobody has the responsibility to disprove your assertions.
Tom

 

[Bomb#20]

I'm not responsible for scumming through your history. If you wish to disprove the claim, show me. That's all this form of disproof takes is counterexamples.

You do clearly know what you've said, so please enlighten us. Have you said you believe Kabenaugh's accuser? I will gladly and humbly apologize if you can find some, wherein you believe a rape accuser with even as much evidence as she had, and given forth by the accused.

You're so incensed by my inability to fact check this that you... Also fail to fact check it?

Oh for the love of god. You are seriously doubling down on your libelous ad hominem invention. What the hell is going on in your mind that you think your behavior is acceptable in civilized company? Why the hell would you imagine that I have to have said I believe her in order for it not to be okay for you to fabricate out of whole cloth the accusation that I didn't believe her?!? There are about a hundred discussions going on in this forum at any time and I am not required to weigh in on every damn one of them just on the off chance that somebody years later might decide he has no duty to be truthful about people he loathes and might choose to interpret nonparticipation as enmity.

 

[TomC]

Have you said you believe Kabenaugh's accuser?

I, personally, have never said I believe Kavenaughs accuser. I don't. But that's not the same as saying I think she's lying. Or that Kavenaugh is an innocent victim. I'm sure something happened. Doubtless a drunken frat boy behaved badly. She went there because she wanted to be there, for some reason.

Decades later, I doubt anybody has a clear recollection of what actually happened. Clearly, alcohol was involved.
So, decades later, I dismissed her accusations as unimportant. Not false, just an unimportant political stunt.
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

I'm not responsible for scumming through your history.

If you're going to make accusations like that then you are definitely responsible for backing them up.

If you wish to disprove the claim, show me. That's all this form of disproof takes is counterexamples.

Nobody has the responsibility to disprove your assertions.
Tom

Hey man, can't prove a negative. You can prove a positive though. I want bomb to prove me wrong and yes, to shame me if this is not how he treats such discussions. Perhaps I AM confusing Bomb with someone else?

But still, he brings it up as if he has, he must have some time in mind.

 

[TomC]

I want bomb to prove me wrong

Maybe nobody cares enough about what you want?
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

I want bomb to prove me wrong

Maybe nobody cares enough about what you want?
Tom

Bomb obviously cares enough to call me wrong, to believe me wrong. To claim I am wrong. He can do as I claim is possible and let reality shame me. Or he can make claims without evidence

 

[Emily Lake]

Bomb obviously cares enough to call me wrong, to believe me wrong. To claim I am wrong. He can do as I claim is possible and let reality shame me. Or he can make claims without evidence

Bomb doesn't give a crap about what YOU want. Bomb has the VERY REASONABLE reaction of wanting to protect his own reputation against your libelous accusations.

Here, allow me to demonstrate: You, Jarhyn, are a serial killer. Prove me wrong.

See? Doesn't work, does it? It's almost a textbook wife-beating argument.

 

[Jarhyn]

The most fucked up part about all this is that I'm not asking you to change one thing about any of the attacks anyone here levies against Lia, or Any trans person who is applying leverage to their condition to get around what are at their core generally reasonable expectations.

I'm asking, specifically, that people who make such accusations just... Not scream and tantrum and shrilly cry when asked to at least respect this one thing they can respect.

 

[ZiprHead]

Why the data shows trans swimming champion Lia Thomas didn’t have an unfair advantage

The NCAA champion has sparked controversy and become a hate figure among conservatives, but statistics show little evidence that she performed any differently to other women, Io Dodds reports

www.independent.co.uk

Both the NCAA and the Olympics allow trans women to compete in women's events once they have been on HRT for a certain length of time, and as long as tests show their testosterone is below certain levels. There are different rules for trans men, because their pre-HRT performance is similar to cis women and they tend to gain strength and muscle mass from HRT.

Opponents of trans women's inclusion argue that these changes are not enough to erase the natural advantages of growing up with testosterone. The scientific evidence is mixed, and post-HRT trans women do not currently dominate professional sport.

Ms Thomas skipped the 2020-21 swimming season, and so she has now been on HRT for nearly three years. According to Sports Illustrated, she lost strength and an inch of her height on HRT, making it impossible for her to match her performance.

So how does she perform as a swimmer today?

Thomas won her race – but didn’t break records​

Let's look first at Ms Thomas's record in the NCAA. While some of her fastest times have been in other competitions, these are the easiest results to access and compare across multiple years and athletes.

All statistics in this article are for "short course yards" races, meaning they were done in a 25-yard pool.

Ms Thomas won the women's 500 yard freestyle race in 4m 33.24s. She came fifth in the 200 yard race, with 1m 43.40s, and eighth in the 100 yard race with 48.40s.

These were impressive results, but they weren't record-breaking. Though the overall competition saw 27 all-time NCAA records broken, Ms Thomas's times weren't among them.

A whopping 18 of those were broken by Kate Douglass of the University of Virginia (UVA), who now has the fastest times in US college history in the 50 yard freestyle, the 100 yard butterfly stroke, and the 200 yard breaststroke.

"It is easy to see how dominant Kate Douglass has become in the sport," wrote Swimming World. "Many dominant swimmers have had three titles, and even three records, in one meet. But no swimmer in NCAA women’s history has ever won three different strokes in a single meet that involve the breaststroke, let alone three records."

Other records were broken by Katherine Berkoff of North Carolina State University and Alex Walsh of UVA, as well as UVA's medley teams in several events.

 

[TomC]

I want bomb to prove me wrong

Maybe nobody cares enough about what you want?
Tom

Bomb obviously cares enough to call me wrong, to believe me wrong. To claim I am wrong. He can do as I claim is possible and let reality shame me. Or he can make claims without evidence

You are the one making the assertion and accusations.

The burden of proof is on you.
Feel free.
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

I want bomb to prove me wrong

Maybe nobody cares enough about what you want?
Tom

Bomb obviously cares enough to call me wrong, to believe me wrong. To claim I am wrong. He can do as I claim is possible and let reality shame me. Or he can make claims without evidence

You are the one making the assertion and accusations.

The burden of proof is on you.
Feel free.
Tom

To prove someone never said something? Are you serious.

He could as easily say something NOW. Like, about any such case.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

You show me the time that has happened and you actually believed her.

I can point to a number of incidents, including one involving a SCOTUS judge where said judge showed a calendar with a clear candidate for the night of the events therein clearly marked out, and a pattern of similar behavior and evasions on the subject and you still didn't believe the person who said a rape was attempted.

It's as if rape in this context is a red herring...

First, you are making accusations with no basis.

Second, perhaps you are thinking about me? If so, if you like to debate the Kavanaugh evidence - and, by the way, preemptively, I never said he did not rape her; but the evidence I've seen in support of her claim clearly is nowhere near conclusive, and if I remember correctly - it was very long ago - the probability I gave was not high, but surely nowhere near negligible -, please resurrect the corresponding thread, and challenge my arguments, so that I can respond to that.

Third in the context of the post you are replying to you, what you say here is irrelevant. Even if you happened to be correct in your charges - which is not true -, the example of a woman who cried "rape" but had no witnesses or physical evidence - whom you would not condemned as a liar - shows that even you do not in general apply the standard to determine who is a liar that can be seen in your false assessment that those who claim the One True God revealed Himself to some people are liars.

The thing you pre-judge is everything else about them on the basis of you pre-judging their sex on the basis of your initial assessment of their physical appearance. It's prejudice all the way down, I'm afraid.

1. Quote B20.

2. That aside, assessing that a person is female or male on the basis of their appearance is not pre-judging, as there is no 'pre' involved. Rather, that is an instance of making a proper assessment, which humans normally and instinctively do all the time. Moreover, using appearance to make assessments is the proper way to go in many, in fact most cases, not just involving sex. We use our sense of sight to take a look at the world around it, and assess what is in it, again all the time. We do not just keep the raw images, unprocessed. We assess what is there.

Granted, human technology can be used to make females look in some respects like males, and vice versa. Sometimes, this is done, which reduces the accuracy of our general capability to make assessments. But not by that much - almost always, we detect females and males correctly. By looking at them. And one would have to reject a huge amount of evidence that is readily available to nearly everyone to deny that.

I'm not responsible for scumming through your history. If you wish to disprove the claim, show me. That's all this form of disproof takes is counterexamples.

You do clearly know what you've said, so please enlighten us. Have you said you believe Kabenaugh's accuser? I will gladly and humbly apologize if you can find some, wherein you believe a rape accuser with even as much evidence as she had, and given forth by the accused.

You're so incensed by my inability to fact check this that you... Also fail to fact check it?

No, that is not what you accused B20 of. You did not say that he did not say that he believes Kavanaugh's accuser. Rather, you said

I can point to a number of incidents, including one involving a SCOTUS judge where said judge showed a calendar with a clear candidate for the night of the events therein clearly marked out, and a pattern of similar behavior and evasions on the subject and you still didn't believe the person who said a rape was attempted.

Well, then, you just claimed you can point to a number of incidents, in particular the one about Kavanaugh. I challenge you to, well, point to the incidents you claim you can point to.

To prove someone never said something? Are you serious.

No, not at all. Remember, you claimed that "I can point to a number of incidents, including one involving a SCOTUS judge where said judge showed a calendar with a clear candidate for the night of the events therein clearly marked out, and a pattern of similar behavior and evasions on the subject and you still didn't believe the person who said a rape was attempted. "

Please show what you claimed you could do. Actually point to those incidents (i.e., links), rather than claiming they happened with zero evidence of them. In particular, please focus on the accusation in re. Kavanaugh and Ford.

 

[repoman]

People have to be "educated" to be as retarded to to think that Lia Thomas should be swimming against real females.

The time for tact is over, people like Jarhyn need to be defeated.

 

[Jarhyn]

People have to be "educated" to be as retarded to to think that Lia Thomas should be swimming against real females.

The time for tact is over, people like Jarhyn need to be defeated.

People have to be actually mentally handicapped to think that I suggested that Lia compete against those not exposed to testosterone.

In fact I continually suggest the opposite: that those impacted by testosterone ought be banned.

I just manage to ask for this in a way that confuses some by the sheer audacity of it: I ask for exactly what Emily and Meta and Repoman ask for... Minus the "man/woman" linguistic garbage that is clearly self-defeating to their cause.

If they were willing to give up the battle over man/woman, to give up the sexism, sex essentialism, and the pre-judging people on the basis of superficial factors, and give up mere words, they win everything (for now; as science indicates the IOC's position is the more sane one, they lose, but on the basis of science rather than semantics).

ZiprHead is the one supporting her competition, and while he supports it with well founded science and observations so far, it's relatively muddy, untested water he stands in when erring on the side of caution is warranted.

 

[bleubird]

SCIENCES ESSAY DISPUTES 2-SEX WORLD

Although you assume you’re either male or female, what about the possibility that you’re really herm, merm or ferm? The March issue of The Sciences, via the New York Academy of Sciences…

www.orlandosentinel.com

I read this in Harper's. It is about the biology of sexes.

 

[Emily Lake]

SCIENCES ESSAY DISPUTES 2-SEX WORLD

Although you assume you’re either male or female, what about the possibility that you’re really herm, merm or ferm? The March issue of The Sciences, via the New York Academy of Sciences…

www.orlandosentinel.com

I read this in Harper's. It is about the biology of sexes.

I read this by an actual evolutionary biologist.
https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/sex-is-not-a-spectrum?s=r

 

[TomC]

SCIENCES ESSAY DISPUTES 2-SEX WORLD

Although you assume you’re either male or female, what about the possibility that you’re really herm, merm or ferm? The March issue of The Sciences, via the New York Academy of Sciences…

www.orlandosentinel.com

I read this in Harper's. It is about the biology of sexes.

I drew my conclusions about the credibility of the author when they pegged the percentage of intersex births at 4%.

A very low level of credibility.
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

People have to be "educated" to be as retarded to to think that Lia Thomas should be swimming against real females.

The time for tact is over, people like Jarhyn need to be defeated.

People have to be actually mentally handicapped to think that I suggested that Lia compete against those not exposed to testosterone.

In fact I continually suggest the opposite: that those impacted by testosterone ought be banned.

Yes, you've come up with a 'solution' that nobody supports.

Your fellow gender cultists won't support it. The most fanatical among them will support nothing less than absolute self-identification only, with no medical requirements whatever. They want Lia Thomas to swim with the girls. All he has to do is claim to be one. And even the gender cultists and their fellow travelers who think Lia Thomas can swim with the girls - if he keeps his circulating testosterone down for x years, won't be satisfied.

Your fellow gender cultists want the girls in the Lia's team who are uncomfortable with Lia getting naked in front of them, to be kicked off the team for "transphobia".

And, of course, ordinary sane people wouldn't support it either, since your ridiculously fuzzy "testosterone exposure" idiocy fails to take into account the many other differences between the sexes.

And also, men can't be women.

I just manage to ask for this in a way that confuses some by the sheer audacity of it: I ask for exactly what Emily and Meta and Repoman ask for... Minus the "man/woman" linguistic garbage that is clearly self-defeating to their cause.

No, you don't ask exactly what we ask for, or even close. I am more than aware that, with your 'solution', Lia Thomas would forever have to swim with the boys (because Lia Thomas had an uninterrupted male puberty).

But, I am not asking that males with uninterrupted puberties be banned from women's sports. I ask that males be banned from women's sports. Males just do not qualify.

If they were willing to give up the battle over man/woman, to give up the sexism, sex essentialism, and the pre-judging people on the basis of superficial factors, and give up mere words, they win everything (for now; as science indicates the IOC's position is the more sane one, they lose, but on the basis of science rather than semantics).

"Mere words".

The breathtaking audacity that a gender cultist would say "all you are giving up is words", when they leverage all the power of the State and corporate culture to punish and forbid "mere words".

ZiprHead is the one supporting her competition, and while he supports it with well founded science and observations so far, it's relatively muddy, untested water he stands in when erring on the side of caution is warranted.

ZiprHead, like many other gender cultists, will eagerly lap up any ideologically-driven article, no matter how poorly it is argued. It would be too generous to say such articles contain straw men. A straw man is at least recognisable as a distorted version of an argument.

 

[Metaphor]

And, because Labour can't hog all the cowardice, Rishi Sunak (Chancellor of the Exchequer), can't say what a woman is either, though he is sure a woman is whatever Boris Johnson said, though he can't quite remember what Boris Johnson said.