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UK thought police arrest woman for silent prayer

You're moving the goalposts. Metaphor didn't say "Either forbidding something in a certain jurisdiction takes away rights in general or it doesn't." He said it "takes away rights or it doesn't." Gospel replied "It doesn't." That's a claim that forbidding something in a certain jurisdiction doesn't take away rights. (Unless it's a large jurisdiction. The "unless part" is based on the qualifier Gospel added.
A charitable interpretation of that reply is pointless hair splitting. You and Metaphor are mistaken- it does not take the right away.

#Bomb20 said:
The argument we're discussing is his, so he gets to add qualifiers; that doesn't mean you get to add them too.)
Your attempt to distract from the paucity of reason in your position is duly noted but it failed. The arrogance in telling me what I cannot do is a truly telling touch.
:facepalm:
I didn't say you can't; I said Gospel's justification for doing so doesn't apply to you.
You wrote "The argument we're discussing is his, so he gets to add qualifiers; that doesn't mean you get to add them too.)". Wow, you really will say anything to deny the obvious.

Nobody's stopping you from adding them without justification. That you do so anyway doesn't mean you'll be arrested; it just means you're committing intellectual suicide. Nothing new about that.
Coming from the master, that is high praise.
 
A Catholic woman who was prosecuted for silently praying outside an abortion clinic has been acquitted. In a video that went viral, Isabel Vaughan-Spruce, director of anti-abortion group March for Life UK, was seen being searched and arrested by three police officers after saying that she 'might be' praying inside her head. Ms Vaughan-Spruce was confronted by police when she was standing on the street outside the BPAS Robert Clinic in Kings Norton, Birmingham, on December 6. Similarly, a priest - Father Sean Gough - who was charged for praying within the same censorship zone in Birmingham has today been cleared at Birmingham Magistrates Court.

Daily Mail

A disgrace that this ever reached the courts.
 
A Catholic woman who was prosecuted for silently praying outside an abortion clinic has been acquitted. In a video that went viral, Isabel Vaughan-Spruce, director of anti-abortion group March for Life UK, was seen being searched and arrested by three police officers after saying that she 'might be' praying inside her head. Ms Vaughan-Spruce was confronted by police when she was standing on the street outside the BPAS Robert Clinic in Kings Norton, Birmingham, on December 6. Similarly, a priest - Father Sean Gough - who was charged for praying within the same censorship zone in Birmingham has today been cleared at Birmingham Magistrates Court.

Daily Mail

A disgrace that this ever reached the courts.
Given how bad shit crazy the UK has become, that result surprises me.
 
A Catholic woman who was prosecuted for silently praying outside an abortion clinic has been acquitted. In a video that went viral, Isabel Vaughan-Spruce, director of anti-abortion group March for Life UK, was seen being searched and arrested by three police officers after saying that she 'might be' praying inside her head. Ms Vaughan-Spruce was confronted by police when she was standing on the street outside the BPAS Robert Clinic in Kings Norton, Birmingham, on December 6. Similarly, a priest - Father Sean Gough - who was charged for praying within the same censorship zone in Birmingham has today been cleared at Birmingham Magistrates Court.

Daily Mail

A disgrace that this ever reached the courts.
This is why conservatives have such a reputation for being sore winners... why should anyone ever concede anything to you, when you're just as angry whether or not you get what you asked for?
 
A Catholic woman who was prosecuted for silently praying outside an abortion clinic has been acquitted. In a video that went viral, Isabel Vaughan-Spruce, director of anti-abortion group March for Life UK, was seen being searched and arrested by three police officers after saying that she 'might be' praying inside her head. Ms Vaughan-Spruce was confronted by police when she was standing on the street outside the BPAS Robert Clinic in Kings Norton, Birmingham, on December 6. Similarly, a priest - Father Sean Gough - who was charged for praying within the same censorship zone in Birmingham has today been cleared at Birmingham Magistrates Court.

Daily Mail

A disgrace that this ever reached the courts.
This is why conservatives have such a reputation for being sore winners... why should anyone ever concede anything to you, when you're just as angry whether or not you get what you asked for?
Arrested for prayer. You really think that’s a good thing? Punishment for thought crime?
 
A Catholic woman who was prosecuted for silently praying outside an abortion clinic has been acquitted. In a video that went viral, Isabel Vaughan-Spruce, director of anti-abortion group March for Life UK, was seen being searched and arrested by three police officers after saying that she 'might be' praying inside her head. Ms Vaughan-Spruce was confronted by police when she was standing on the street outside the BPAS Robert Clinic in Kings Norton, Birmingham, on December 6. Similarly, a priest - Father Sean Gough - who was charged for praying within the same censorship zone in Birmingham has today been cleared at Birmingham Magistrates Court.

Daily Mail

A disgrace that this ever reached the courts.
This is why conservatives have such a reputation for being sore winners... why should anyone ever concede anything to you, when you're just as angry whether or not you get what you asked for?
Arrested for prayer. You really think that’s a good thing? Punishment for thought crime?
There was no punishment.
 
A Catholic woman who was prosecuted for silently praying outside an abortion clinic has been acquitted. In a video that went viral, Isabel Vaughan-Spruce, director of anti-abortion group March for Life UK, was seen being searched and arrested by three police officers after saying that she 'might be' praying inside her head. Ms Vaughan-Spruce was confronted by police when she was standing on the street outside the BPAS Robert Clinic in Kings Norton, Birmingham, on December 6. Similarly, a priest - Father Sean Gough - who was charged for praying within the same censorship zone in Birmingham has today been cleared at Birmingham Magistrates Court.

Daily Mail

A disgrace that this ever reached the courts.
This is why conservatives have such a reputation for being sore winners... why should anyone ever concede anything to you, when you're just as angry whether or not you get what you asked for?
Arrested for prayer. You really think that’s a good thing? Punishment for thought crime?
There was no punishment.
Because they were acquitted. The process is the punishment.
 
A Catholic woman who was prosecuted for silently praying outside an abortion clinic has been acquitted. In a video that went viral, Isabel Vaughan-Spruce, director of anti-abortion group March for Life UK, was seen being searched and arrested by three police officers after saying that she 'might be' praying inside her head. Ms Vaughan-Spruce was confronted by police when she was standing on the street outside the BPAS Robert Clinic in Kings Norton, Birmingham, on December 6. Similarly, a priest - Father Sean Gough - who was charged for praying within the same censorship zone in Birmingham has today been cleared at Birmingham Magistrates Court.

Daily Mail

A disgrace that this ever reached the courts.
This is why conservatives have such a reputation for being sore winners... why should anyone ever concede anything to you, when you're just as angry whether or not you get what you asked for?
Arrested for prayer. You really think that’s a good thing? Punishment for thought crime?
There was no punishment.
Because they were acquitted. The process is the punishment.
Conservative-land is so confusing. The police should be allowed to execute people in the street without trial if they "feel threatened", but not to peacefully detain people who are causing public disruptions. Having your fair hearing in court "is the punishment", even if the case is decided in your favor. I do not wish to live in the nightmarish country you people would create given the chance.
 
A Catholic woman who was prosecuted for silently praying outside an abortion clinic has been acquitted. In a video that went viral, Isabel Vaughan-Spruce, director of anti-abortion group March for Life UK, was seen being searched and arrested by three police officers after saying that she 'might be' praying inside her head. Ms Vaughan-Spruce was confronted by police when she was standing on the street outside the BPAS Robert Clinic in Kings Norton, Birmingham, on December 6. Similarly, a priest - Father Sean Gough - who was charged for praying within the same censorship zone in Birmingham has today been cleared at Birmingham Magistrates Court.

Daily Mail

A disgrace that this ever reached the courts.
This is why conservatives have such a reputation for being sore winners... why should anyone ever concede anything to you, when you're just as angry whether or not you get what you asked for?
Arrested for prayer. You really think that’s a good thing? Punishment for thought crime?
There was no punishment.
Because they were acquitted. The process is the punishment.
Conservative-land is so confusing. The police should be allowed to execute people in the street without trial if they "feel threatened", but not to peacefully detain people who are causing public disruptions. Having your fair hearing in court "is the punishment", even if the case is decided in your favor. I do not wish to live in the nightmarish country you people would create given the chance.
What is this blabber? They were arrested and charged because of a law disfavoring a political and religious viewpoint. Why would any atheist/agnostic/freethinker support such a law?
 
Was she arrested for praying silently in her head or for violating a Public Space Protection Order?

I thought we already established there was sufficient evidence of the latter to justify the arrest, and that it was not possible for evidence of the former to exist at all.
 
What is this blabber? They were arrested and charged because of a law disfavoring a political and religious viewpoint. Why would any atheist/agnostic/freethinker support such a law?
The law doesn't disfavor a viewpoint. It places limits on how disruptive people be in a clearly defined area.

Thoughts and prayers in one's head are undetectable. Actions impact others, and some of them have consequences.
 
What is this blabber? They were arrested and charged because of a law disfavoring a political and religious viewpoint. Why would any atheist/agnostic/freethinker support such a law?
The law doesn't disfavor a viewpoint. It places limits on how disruptive people be in a clearly defined area.
She was praying in her head. If she had been Muslim making a daily prayer to Mecca she would have been fine. But because she’s Christian, she gets arrested. If she’d been blocking a clinic entrance, you’d have a point.
 
What is this blabber? They were arrested and charged because of a law disfavoring a political and religious viewpoint. Why would any atheist/agnostic/freethinker support such a law?
The law doesn't disfavor a viewpoint. It places limits on how disruptive people be in a clearly defined area.
She was praying in her head. If she had been Muslim making a daily prayer to Mecca she would have been fine. But because she’s Christian, she gets arrested. If she’d been blocking a clinic entrance, you’d have a point.
You're making, or perhaps simply repeating, an appeal to emotion. It's not rational and it's not supported by the video of the arrest.

In the video, the police officer tells Ms. Vaughan-Spruce he's taking her into custody on suspicion of violating the PSPO on that and two other occasions. The reports that list the actual charges say she was criminally charged with “protesting and engaging in an act that is intimidating to service users". Her presence in the protected zone and admission she was there "because it's an abortion center" establishes sufficient justification for the charges. Praying had nothing to do with it, but that claim does hit the emotional sweet spot for some folks so I understand why Ms. Vaughan-Spruce and her allies keep making it.

Since you mentioned Muslims, let's try a thought experiment. Suppose the building in that neighborhood housed a school for girls and the protesters were conservative Muslims opposed to the 'violation' of their religious beliefs. Suppose they had been engaged in a campaign of intimidation, disruption, harassment, etc. for years until the community enacted legislation to create a PSPO. Suppose the leader of the protesters kept violating the PSPO until he got arrested.

Would you buy his/her story that he/she was arrested for silently praying, or would you consider their admission they were there "because it's a school for girls" and the complaints they'd been there on two other occasions to be sufficient to support the charge they were deliberately violating the PSPO and "engaging in an act intimidating to service users"?
 
A Catholic woman who was prosecuted for silently praying outside an abortion clinic has been acquitted. ...

Daily Mail

A disgrace that this ever reached the courts.
This is why conservatives have such a reputation for being sore winners... why should anyone ever concede anything to you, when you're just as angry whether or not you get what you asked for?
Well in the first place, when do progressives ever concede anything, whether your outgroups show gratitude for the indulgence and tug our forelocks at you or not? And in the second place, is that how you think people should decide to make concessions? By whether it will make opponents less angry? People should ever concede anything to conservatives because from time to time conservatives are right.
 
A Catholic woman who was prosecuted for silently praying outside an abortion clinic has been acquitted. ...

Daily Mail

A disgrace that this ever reached the courts.
This is why conservatives have such a reputation for being sore winners... why should anyone ever concede anything to you, when you're just as angry whether or not you get what you asked for?
Well in the first place, when do progressives ever concede anything, whether your outgroups show gratitude for the indulgence and tug our forelocks at you or not? And in the second place, is that how you think people should decide to make concessions? By whether it will make opponents less angry? People should ever concede anything to conservatives because from time to time conservatives are right.
You are being too literal.
 
She was praying in her head. If she had been Muslim making a daily prayer to Mecca she would have been fine. But because she’s Christian, she gets arrested. If she’d been blocking a clinic entrance, you’d have a point.
The woman is a well-known leader of anti-abortion group. She is known for protests. Her religion is not relevant.
 
The woman is a well-known leader of anti-abortion group. She is known for protests. Her religion is not relevant.
And the reason for the ordinance she decidedly flouted was years of antisocial behavior at that very spot.

It wasn't just the staff and clients of the clinic complaining to city officials. It was also, and mostly, the neighbors. They didn't want her there either. That's why the ordinance was passed. Nothing about thought control or anti-Christian anything. She was deliberately disruptive and the locals got the city to respond.

Eventually.
Tom
 
She was praying in her head. If she had been Muslim making a daily prayer to Mecca she would have been fine. But because she’s Christian, she gets arrested. If she’d been blocking a clinic entrance, you’d have a point.
The woman is a well-known leader of anti-abortion group. She is known for protests. Her religion is not relevant.

I guess your past doesn't matter when you're a {Insert bias here}.
 
Arrested for prayer. You really think that’s a good thing? Punishment for thought crime?
There was no punishment.
Because they were acquitted. The process is the punishment.
Yes, sometimes. In this case probably not -- the process was the price of getting to manipulate her opponents into forfeiting the moral high ground and making themselves look like authoritarian jackasses. From her point of view, probably worth every minute and worth every penny.
 
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