Undocumented Immigrants are paying into social security?

[ronburgundy]

According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/02/07/undocumented-immigrants-and-social-security-separa.aspx

Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.

Given that Trump (and tons of Republican politicians and voters) are among the employers knowingly engaging in this criminal activity, there will be no enforcement of it.

BTW, illegals not only pay SS, but state and Fed income taxes, and pay more than their share b/c they rarely file returns to request refunds out of fear of being investigated. That's is why it is well known that illegals actually pay more into the system overall than the receive in services that those public funds pay for.

 

[RVonse]

I'm not the least bit happy if someone is allowed to illegally exploit any worker and even more unhappy if they are doing in collusion with a government official.

I'm just wondering what you meant by "middle class and common interest", as well as why you feel abandoned by the Democratic Party.

I consider the middle class the majority of the population that works for a living. If you live off passive income or the government you are probably not in that category.

Starting with Clinton and the NAFTA agreement, he Democrats have let labor down in a masive way.

How did the Nafta agreement affect you personally?

Back in 2008 during times of economic turmoil, car and trucks which used to be manufactured in Fenton, Missouri, USA were relocated to plants in Canada and Mexico. And the Nafta agreement allowed that to happen. That transfer of manufacturing cost over 15,000 local jobs including my own.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If they have fake SSAN's then the employer will deduct SS and remit it. It’s a small windfall for SSA every year. Most illegals though have fake green cards, not SSAN's. If you have green card, you don’t pay into SS, but you do pay taxes. And the employer doesn’t have to pay their contribution to SS either. That’s one reason to hire immigrants, legal or illegal. It’s also what the trump fucking supporters don’t get. They bitch and moan about illegal immigrants. Who gives a fuck about them. They come here because Americans are illegally hiring them. Half the time they’re helping them get their illegal green cards. They know damn well they aren’t legal. They use that fact to threaten them and keep them in line. Funk with those motherfuckers and illegal immigration would end in a heartbeat.

SLD

Many errors here.

Green card vs citizen makes no difference in taxes. My wife had the FICA taken out even at the start when she was working simply with a letter from INS.

And companies hiring illegals aren't trying to help them get green cards. Rather, they like to hire them because an illegal isn't going to file a complaint about not being paid or the like.

 

[Bronzeage]

How did the Nafta agreement affect you personally?

Back in 2008 during times of economic turmoil, car and trucks which used to be manufactured in Fenton, Missouri, USA were relocated to plants in Canada and Mexico. And the Nafta agreement allowed that to happen. That transfer of manufacturing cost over 15,000 local jobs including my own.

Which would you prefer, trucks made in Mexico, or US trucks to expensive to purchase, which leads to a closed plant. What solution would you have put in place?

 

[RVonse]

How did the Nafta agreement affect you personally?

Back in 2008 during times of economic turmoil, car and trucks which used to be manufactured in Fenton, Missouri, USA were relocated to plants in Canada and Mexico. And the Nafta agreement allowed that to happen. That transfer of manufacturing cost over 15,000 local jobs including my own.

Which would you prefer, trucks made in Mexico, or US trucks to expensive to purchase, which leads to a closed plant. What solution would you have put in place?

Pretty much the same kind of solutions Trump is doing right now. Other countries have to actually participate with free trade on a level playing field or manufacturing will leave. In the case of Canada, their workers get free healthcare from the government which is a huge cost savings against US labor. And in the case of Mexico, their lower standard of living creates an unfair trade advantage as well.

It actually was not some law of thermodynamics that caused over 13 million high value jobs since 2000 to leave the US. It took human agency in the form of politicians getting bribes and passing laws like NAFTA.

But to directly answer your question, Obama could have intervened and saved all the jobs in Fenton if he had wanted. All he would needed to tell Chrysler at the time is no government bailout unless they kept American plants. Trump would have done that.

But Im not complaining about Obama because atleast he decided to bailout Chrysler and that preserved my pension. McCain would have let everyone hang out to dry.

 

[Jarhyn]

According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/02/07/undocumented-immigrants-and-social-security-separa.aspx

Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.

We haven't managed to meaningfully address identity theft. This is simply a form of identity theft. Until we come up with a good way of stopping identity theft we should not be trying hard to address illegals this way as it will harm innocents while doing little about the illegals. If you could actually stop illegals from working it might be a good idea but in reality it comes down to them working with documents the IRS will realize are fake or working with documents the IRS will think belong to a legitimate taxpayer and will try to get the tax from the innocent taxpayer. My mother went through that--"you failed to report this income from XYZ corp." "I was not working anywhere, let alone for XYZ corp." "If the tax form is wrong contact your employer and get it fixed." "I never worked for them, I don't know who they are and I can't even find them. Please provide me contact information." "We are not allowed to provide that information. Contact your employer and get it fixed."

I keep saying this: the best way to combat identity theft is to issue people password protected pgp certificates on hardware cards (with NFC, and built in hardware crypto).

Want to identify yourself? Use the card, nail the PIN, match the photo.

They would be impossible to forge anonymously, impossible to alter the photo, absolutely secure: they can steal the card but they can't steal your PIN or password.

Make the password and PIN part of a multi-tiered ID system: password for strong identification, PIN for "easy" ID, NFC for "trivial" ID, just match the external picture for "passing" ID.

Even if you manage to steal someone's card, the hardware signer is rate limited by it's hardware throughput: it would easily take longer than the certificate life to Brute Force the password.

How is it forgery-proof? Your signing credentials are signed, as a "crate", and individually, by a higher level of certificate owned by the government agent who issues it whose credential includes origination privileges, which are signed by, say, the governor of a state. Anyone issuing bogus IDs has their certificate revoked on the network, and they face felony charges for misuse or fraudulent issuance.

It is ironclad.

Oh, and all the infrastructure for this could be supplied off the rack. It would require no new hardware development, not even for the IDs themselves. Minimal software development, too: all this crypto is open source.