University of Otago student association gives "sportswoman of the year" award to a man.

[Metaphor]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/la...of-the-year-award/MC7H4ZWWSL2L7BGUHMLDA4Y3ME/

(emphasis mine)

Transgender weightlifter Laurel Hubbard has been named University of Otago sportswoman of the year at the Blues awards earlier this week.

Hubbard is believed to be the first transgender winner of the award in the event's 113-year history.

The Queenstown athlete became the first openly transgender woman to compete at the Olympics when she contested the women's 87+kg at the Tokyo Games this year.
The 43-year-old was eliminated from the event when she failed to make a successful lift in the snatch.

Her achievement was recognised with the sportswoman of the year award at University of Otago and OUSA Blues and Golds Awards on Tuesday.

In a short statement to the Otago Daily Times Hubbard said she was ''grateful for all of the support and kindness received from the teaching staff and students at Otago University''.

''It is not possible for athletes to complete at the Olympic level without the encouragement and aroha of friends, family and supporters.

''This award belongs to everyone who has been part of my Olympic journey.''

Otago University Students' Association president Michaela Waite-Harvey said the Blues awards aim to highlight Otago students excelling in their chosen sport.
''We could think of no-one more worthy of sportswoman of the year than Laurel Hubbard who represented Otago and New Zealand incredibly well at this year's Tokyo Olympics.''

I'm not a weightlifting expert, but it's my opinion that failing all three snatch attempts and coming worst than last place (Did Not Finish) is not so much a sporting 'achievement', though it's certainly noteworthy.

But I think the granting of the award has a bigger problem. The recipient is an adult human male, who is not a sportswoman because he is not any kind of woman at all.

 

[Arctish]

What, in your opinion, are the defining characteristics of a woman?

What definition of 'woman' is the awards committee of the University of Otago using?

 

[Trausti]

 

[Metaphor]

What, in your opinion, are the defining characteristics of a woman?

A woman is an adult human female. Laurel Hubbard is an adult human male.

What definition of 'woman' is the awards committee of the University of Otago using?

It isn't clear from its policy on nominations for the Blues and Golds awards, but for Hubbard to have qualified, the category of 'sportswoman' includes men.

 

[TV and credit cards]

What, in your opinion, are the defining characteristics of a woman?

What definition of 'woman' is the awards committee of the University of Otago using?

Well it’s determined by all outwardly appearance, obviously. You are what the world judges you to be not what you know yourself to be. See, isn’t that all nice and tidy.

 

[Trausti]

What, in your opinion, are the defining characteristics of a woman?

What definition of 'woman' is the awards committee of the University of Otago using?

Well it’s determined by all outwardly appearance, obviously. You are what the world judges you to be not what you know yourself to be. See, isn’t that all nice and tidy.

Tell that to Rachel Dolezal.

 

[Arctish]

What, in your opinion, are the defining characteristics of a woman?

A woman is an adult human female. Laurel Hubbard is an adult human male.

If you're going to play stupid word games this thread is effectively over.

We can resume the discussion we had here about the terms 'woman' and 'female', or we can start fresh.

Your choice.

 

[Metaphor]

If you're going to play stupid word games this thread is effectively over.

I am not playing 'word games', stupid or otherwise. I answered your question in good faith. I gave you the 'defining characteristics' of a woman.

And unless you are a moderator who can close this thread, I do not believe the thread to be 'over'. If you mean your participation in it is over, obviously that is up to you.

We can resume the discussion we had here about the terms 'woman' and 'female', or we can start fresh.

Your choice.

Although I agree with the views I expressed in that previous thread, I do not believe that resuming an 80 page thread would be beneficial.

 

[Arctish]

If you're going to play stupid word games this thread is effectively over.

I am not playing 'word games', stupid or otherwise. I answered your question in good faith. I gave you the 'defining characteristics' of a woman.

You gave a brief definition of the term using another undefined term. You did not say what, in your opinion, are the defining characteristics.

It looked like a dodge.

And unless you are a moderator who can close this thread, I do not believe the thread to be 'over'. If you mean your participation in it is over, obviously that is up to you.

Effectively over as in 'not a discussion, not going anywhere, D.O.A.'.

We can resume the discussion we had here about the terms 'woman' and 'female', or we can start fresh.

Your choice.

Although I agree with the views I expressed in that previous thread, I do not believe that resuming an 80 page thread would be beneficial.

How about just resuming the part where we discussed the terms 'female' and 'woman'?

 

[TSwizzle]

What, in your opinion, are the defining characteristics of a woman?

LOL. Wait, you’re serious?

 

[crazyfingers]

This fixation that some people have about finding news on trans people is kinda peculiar. Yup. Very peculiar I'd say.

 

[Metaphor]

You gave a brief definition of the term using another undefined term.

I actually used three undefined terms: adult, human, female.

You did not say what, in your opinion, are the defining characteristics.

But I did say it. Those are the three characteristics. Adult, human, female. Women simultaneously satisfy all three characteristics. Anybody or anything that does not is not a woman.

It looked like a dodge.

It was not a dodge. I gave you the defining characteristics of being a woman.

How about just resuming the part where we discussed the terms 'female' and 'woman'?

If you mean you would like me to explain what 'female' is, I am happy to do so. A female is the sex of an organism that produces large, sessile gametes, in contrast to the sex (male) that produces small, motile gametes.

 

[Arctish]

I actually used three undefined terms: adult, human, female.

Yes, yes, just like in the last thread where you tried to make some sort of issue out of my decision to address them one at a time, starting with the one that was most pertinent to the discussion.

But I did say it. Those are the three characteristics. Adult, human, female. Women simultaneously satisfy all three characteristics. Anybody or anything that does not is not a woman.

It looked like a dodge.

It was not a dodge. I gave you the defining characteristics of being a woman.

How about just resuming the part where we discussed the terms 'female' and 'woman'?

If you mean you would like me to explain what 'female' is, I am happy to do so. A female is the sex of an organism that produces large, sessile gametes, in contrast to the sex (male) that produces small, motile gametes.

A female is not "the sex.of an organism".

Anyway, not all adult human individuals produce gametes, so your list of characteristics seems pretty inadequate.

 

[Trausti]

Anyway, not all adult human individuals produce gametes, so your list of characteristics seems pretty inadequate.

Some people can't walk. Hence, humans are not bipedal.

 

[Metaphor]

A female is not "the sex.of an organism".

You're correct--it should have said "'female' describes the sex".

Anyway, not all adult human individuals produce gametes, so your list of characteristics seems pretty inadequate.

No, they don't, but they are of the kind that produces those gametes. Girls are female because they are of the kind that produce large, sessile gametes.

Hubbard is not of the kind that produces large, sessile gametes so he cannot be a woman.

 

[Trausti]

Always so amusing to see presumably intelligent people earnestly argue that human sexual dimorphism evolved for no reason whatsoever.

 

[Arctish]

Always so amusing to see presumably intelligent people earnestly argue that human sexual dimorphism evolved for no reason whatsoever.

Where do you see that discussion? Over in the Natural Science forum?

 

[Trausti]

Always so amusing to see presumably intelligent people earnestly argue that human sexual dimorphism evolved for no reason whatsoever.

Where do you see that discussion? Over in the Natural Science forum?

Well, you're the one questioning the definition of female, which no reasonable person would think in doubt.

 

[Arctish]

A female is not "the sex.of an organism".

You're correct--it should have said "'female' describes the sex".

Anyway, not all adult human individuals produce gametes, so your list of characteristics seems pretty inadequate.

No, they don't, but they are of the kind that produces those gametes. Girls are female because they are of the kind that produce large, sessile gametes.

Hubbard is not of the kind that produces large, sessile gametes so he cannot be a woman.

It used to be that men were large, muscular adult human beings with penises and testicles that were sexually attracted to females. The large, muscular adult human beings without penises and/or lacking testicles were eunuchs and malformed females (both pitiable), and the ones with penises and testicles that were attracted to males were freaks and abominations. Then things changed and society accepted that some men are sexually attracted to men. Gays came out of the closet.

This is why this discussion of 'female' and 'women' matters. It's not just some stupid word game or pointless quibble about definitions. This discussion is about sex designations and the expectations and limitations society foists upon people who are given one.

It's about sexism.

Who says Hubbard can't be woman enough to be awarded a Sportswoman of the Year award? You?

Did you sample Hubbard's gametes yourself? Did you grapple with the notion of adults human beings who don't produce gametes, or that there are some who have both types of gonads? Have you come to terms with the idea that sex and gender don't always pair up the same way, and that being a 'woman' isn't just something that comes from having a matching set of chromosomes?

I don't think you did.

 

[Metaphor]

This is why this discussion of 'female' and 'women' matters. It's not just some stupid word game or pointless quibble about a sports award. This discussion is all about sex designations and the expectations and limitations society foists upon people.

It's all about sexism.

Who says Hubbard can't be woman enough to be awarded a Sportswoman of the Year award? You?

Nothing Hubbard can do can make him 'woman enough', because he is not a woman.

Did you sample Hubbard's gametes yourself?

No.

Did you grapple with the notion of adults human beings who don't produce gametes, or that there are some who have both types of gonads?

There are disorders of sex development, certainly. But there are two sexes in mammals and only two sexes. There is no third gamete that is on the spectrum between an egg and a sperm.

Have you come to terms with the idea that sex and gender don't always line up the same way, and that being a 'woman' isn't just something that comes from having a matching set of chromosomes?

By 'come to terms with', what do you mean? Do you mean 'believe'?

What is gender?

I don't think you did.

What you mean is: I have not accepted that sports should be separated by 'gender' rather than sex.