University of Otago student association gives "sportswoman of the year" award to a man.

[Patooka]

Seeing as people are going down the rabbit hole of insisting having an arbitrary definition on what wimin' folk are:


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMeMtabtLiI[/youtube]

 

[Toni]

Nothing Hubbard can do can make him 'woman enough', because he is not a woman.

How do you know that Hubbard is not a woman?

What criteria are you using? How did you confirm your definition against Hubbard's characteristics?

 

[Trausti]

Nothing Hubbard can do can make him 'woman enough', because he is not a woman.

How do you know that Hubbard is not a woman?

What criteria are you using? How did you confirm your definition against Hubbard's characteristics?

So, when future anthropologists did up Hubbard’s bones, what are they going to find?

 

[TSwizzle]

Seeing as people are going down the rabbit hole of insisting having an arbitrary definition on what wimin' folk are:

Arbitrary? Bonkers.

 

[Arctish]

Nothing Hubbard can do can make him 'woman enough', because he is not a woman.

How do you know that Hubbard is not a woman?

What criteria are you using? How did you confirm your definition against Hubbard's characteristics?

So, when future anthropologists did up Hubbard’s bones, what are they going to find?

Probably not gametes.

 

[Metaphor]

How do you know that Hubbard is not a woman?

Because he is an adult human male. Adult human males cannot be women. They are men.

What criteria are you using? How did you confirm your definition against Hubbard's characteristics?

The criteria I am using is 'adult human female', as I've described earlier. Since there seems to be no dispute about Hubbard's adultness or humanness, it appears you are challenging the idea that he is not female.

Hubbard is not female, because his sex - male - was observed and recorded at birth. We know this because he competed as Gavin Hubbard in men's sports before he 'transitioned' to Laurel Hubbard.

 

[Arctish]

How do you know that Hubbard is not a woman?

Because he is an adult human male. Adult human males cannot be women. They are men.

What criteria are you using? How did you confirm your definition against Hubbard's characteristics?

The criteria I am using is 'adult human female', as I've described earlier. Since there seems to be no dispute about Hubbard's adultness or humanness, it appears you are challenging the idea that he is not female.

Hubbard is not female, because his sex - male - was observed and recorded at birth. We know this because he competed as Gavin Hubbard in men's sports before he 'transitioned' to Laurel Hubbard.

Here's someone whose sex was observed and recorded as male on their birth certificate and then changed to female on a new birth certificate issued three weeks later.

They don't produce gametes so you can't use the size difference to determine whether on not they're female.

Now what?

 

[Metaphor]

Here's someone whose sex was observed and recorded as male on their birth certificate and then changed to female on a new birth certificate issued three weeks later.

They don't produce gametes so you can't use the size difference to determine whether on not they're female.

Now what?

Now what, what? What on earth does that story have to do with Hubbard? Are you suggesting that Hubbard is intersex, and that his sex was mis-observed and mis-recorded on his birth certificate as male?

You did not answer my question from earlier: what is gender?

 

[Metaphor]

Seeing as people are going down the rabbit hole of insisting having an arbitrary definition on what wimin' folk are:


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMeMtabtLiI[/youtube]

Did you just link unironically to a Vaush video?

Do you have something to say about it?

 

[TomC]

This fixation that some people have about finding news on trans people is kinda peculiar. Yup. Very peculiar I'd say.

I'm sure the reason is plain. It brings up a peculiar form of blindness on the part of excessive political correctness.

In the vast majority of human endeavors, sex doesn't matter. Gender rarely matters. Elite athletes is a different world. Being born with a male physique is a big advantage, easily the equivalent of doping. Allowing males to compete against female athletes is tantamount to eliminating the women's division. I strongly believe that the damage done to women far outweighs the damage done to trans folks required to compete in their sex divisions.

This is different from any other activity I can think of, but pretending that Hubbard is a woman like any other is mindless ideological nonsense.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/la...of-the-year-award/MC7H4ZWWSL2L7BGUHMLDA4Y3ME/

(emphasis mine)

Transgender weightlifter Laurel Hubbard has been named University of Otago sportswoman of the year at the Blues awards earlier this week.

Hubbard is believed to be the first transgender winner of the award in the event's 113-year history.

The Queenstown athlete became the first openly transgender woman to compete at the Olympics when she contested the women's 87+kg at the Tokyo Games this year.
The 43-year-old was eliminated from the event when she failed to make a successful lift in the snatch.

Her achievement was recognised with the sportswoman of the year award at University of Otago and OUSA Blues and Golds Awards on Tuesday.

In a short statement to the Otago Daily Times Hubbard said she was ''grateful for all of the support and kindness received from the teaching staff and students at Otago University''.

''It is not possible for athletes to complete at the Olympic level without the encouragement and aroha of friends, family and supporters.

''This award belongs to everyone who has been part of my Olympic journey.''

Otago University Students' Association president Michaela Waite-Harvey said the Blues awards aim to highlight Otago students excelling in their chosen sport.
''We could think of no-one more worthy of sportswoman of the year than Laurel Hubbard who represented Otago and New Zealand incredibly well at this year's Tokyo Olympics.''

I'm not a weightlifting expert, but it's my opinion that failing all three snatch attempts and coming worst than last place (Did Not Finish) is not so much a sporting 'achievement', though it's certainly noteworthy.

In most countries, making the Olympic team is considered a sporting achievement.

But I think the granting of the award has a bigger problem. The recipient is an adult human male, who is not a sportswoman because he is not any kind of woman at all.

Like many things in life over which one has little to no influence, in this case, your concerns are duly noted and are filed in the appropriate place.

 

[Metaphor]

In most countries, making the Olympic team is considered a sporting achievement.

It's true that no other man at the University of Otago made it in to the Olympics to compete and lose against women.

Like many things in life over which one has little to no influence, in this case, your concerns are duly noted and are filed in the appropriate place.

It's true that I won't influence the decision that that student association has already made, but I can make people aware of the decision. If indeed we are headed for an Orwellian future--where some men are women, where penis-in-vagina sex can be a lesbian act, where people are attracted to 'gender' and not sex--then I want to at least make sure it wasn't stumbled into blindly.

 

[laughing dog]

In most countries, making the Olympic team is considered a sporting achievement.

It's true that no other man at the University of Otago made it in to the Olympics to compete and lose against women.

According the New Zealand Olympic Committee and the International Olympic committee, no man made it into the Olympics to compete against women. And there is plenty of Olympic history to verify that the IOC has been watching for such occurrences. Perhaps you need to voice your feelings to New Zealand's Olympic committee and the International Olympic committee.

It's true that I won't influence the decision that that student association has already made, but I can make people aware of the decision. If indeed we are headed for an Orwellian future--where some men are women, where penis-in-vagina sex can be a lesbian act, where people are attracted to 'gender' and not sex--then I want to at least make sure it wasn't stumbled into blindly.

I admire the energy of people who persist flailing away at the inconsequential and fail.

 

[crazyfingers]

If indeed we are headed for an Orwellian future--where some men are women, where penis-in-vagina sex can be a lesbian act, where people are attracted to 'gender' and not sex--then I want to at least make sure it wasn't stumbled into blindly.

And this demonstrates my point. This fixation that some people have about finding news on trans people is kinda peculiar. Yup. Very peculiar I'd say. This incredible concern some people have about how others may have sex or view gender that some people perceived as not normal.

 

[Metaphor]

Actually, no man made it into the Olympics to compete against women. According the New Zealand Olympic Committee and the International Olympic committee, no man made it into the Olympics to compete against women. And there is plenty of Olympic history to verify that the IOC has been watching for such occurrences. Perhaps you need to voice your feelings to New Zealand's Olympic committee and the International Olympic committee.

Laurel Hubbard made it in to the Olympics to compete against women, and Laurel Hubbard is a man. That the International Olympic Committee decided that some men can qualify to compete against women by labelling those men 'trans women' does not change the reality of the IOC's decision to allow men to compete against women.

I admire th energy of people who persist flailing away at the inconsequential and fail.

I doubt you admire it, but I consider your indifference to the open erosion of sex-based rights to be callous.

 

[Metaphor]

If indeed we are headed for an Orwellian future--where some men are women, where penis-in-vagina sex can be a lesbian act, where people are attracted to 'gender' and not sex--then I want to at least make sure it wasn't stumbled into blindly.

And this demonstrates my point. This fixation that some people have about finding news on trans people is kinda peculiar. Yup. Very peculiar I'd say. This incredible concern some people have about how others may have sex or view gender that some people perceived as not normal.

You have repeated this three times. I read it the first time. I have processed and understood the fact that you consider some people to have peculiar behaviour.

 

[laughing dog]

Actually, no man made it into the Olympics to compete against women. According the New Zealand Olympic Committee and the International Olympic committee, no man made it into the Olympics to compete against women. And there is plenty of Olympic history to verify that the IOC has been watching for such occurrences. Perhaps you need to voice your feelings to New Zealand's Olympic committee and the International Olympic committee.

Laurel Hubbard made it in to the Olympics to compete against women, and Laurel Hubbard is a man. That the International Olympic Committee decided that some men can qualify to compete against women by labelling those men 'trans women' does not change the reality of the IOC's decision to allow men to compete against women.

You are mistaken. The IOC does not allow men at all to compete against women. It allows women to compete against women. Apparently the IOC is unaware that you are the arbiter of reality.

I doubt you admire it, but I find callous your indifference to the open erosion of sex-based rights as 'inconsequential'.

You are mistaken. I admire energy regardless of how it is expended. I may not admire the ends to which it is directed (humane and just or small-minded bigot) but the energy is admirable.

 

[crazyfingers]

If indeed we are headed for an Orwellian future--where some men are women, where penis-in-vagina sex can be a lesbian act, where people are attracted to 'gender' and not sex--then I want to at least make sure it wasn't stumbled into blindly.

And this demonstrates my point. This fixation that some people have about finding news on trans people is kinda peculiar. Yup. Very peculiar I'd say. This incredible concern some people have about how others may have sex or view gender that some people perceived as not normal.

You have repeated this three times. I read it the first time. I have processed and understood the fact that you consider some people to have peculiar behaviour.

No. I think some people have peculiar concerns about how others have sex or view gender. It's like people actually think that how others have sex or view gender is a problem that for some reason needs a solution.

 

[Metaphor]

You are mistaken. The IOC does not allow men at all to compete against women. It allows women to compete against women. Apparently the IOC is unaware that you are the arbiter of reality.

The IOC allowed a man-Laurel Hubbard-to compete against women, and has allowed men to compete against women from 2016. It will have a new policy sometime in 2022 that may alter the parameters of how it allows men to compete against women in future competition.

You are mistaken. I admire energy regardless of how it is expended. I may not admire the ends to which it is directed (humane and just or small-minded bigot) but the energy is admirable.

Whereas I find callous indifference to the erosion of sex-based rights problematic, and the sneering cloaking of this attitude as if it were the morally defensible ground grotesque. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Metaphor]

You have repeated this three times. I read it the first time. I have processed and understood the fact that you consider some people to have peculiar behaviour.

No. I think some people have peculiar concerns about how others have sex or view gender. It's like people actually think that how others have sex or view gender is a problem that for some reason needs a solution.

What does that have to do with this thread?