Unskilled =/= Not Valuable

[untermensche]

One ignores serious environmental problems because it is profitable.

One drives leaders to war, to the endless war of the last 16 years, to protect investments.

One prevents investment in real change because it takes from profits.

One is destroying the future for everyone.

And still there are worms that defend them.

Humans have been at war since pretty much day 1, doesn't matter which structure is in at the top. Your beef should be against government, though the irony is that every solution you advocate is more government.

There have been sycophants to illegitimate power from day one. They are who the dictators get their power from.

There have been people who can't see past the religious ideas taught to them as children from day one.

The beef is with dictatorship in all forms.

It is equally illegitimate in all forms unless proven otherwise.

And the proof of their destructive nature tips the scales so far only the most deluded worms still sing the praises or talk of the need for illegitimate dictatorships in human affairs.

We partially rid ourselves of the problem in government. A functioning democracy would make things better, and getting rid of economic dictatorships would make things even better.

There is still a lot of work to do.

 

[ksen]

Can we get this side discussion split out?

tia

 

[untermensche]

Can we get this side discussion split out?

tia

It really is at the core of the issue.

A market wage is just a way of saying "lowest possible wage".

It is a tool those at the top use to steal from as many as possible below them so they can live like princes.

Parasites but princes.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Can we get this side discussion split out?

tia

It really is at the core of the issue.

A market wage is just a way of saying "lowest possible wage".

It is a tool those at the top use to steal from as many as possible below them so they can live like princes.

Parasites but princes.

Princely parazites.

It's a term where in the Capitalist utopia workers can be sold like cattle. In Feudal Tibet before China invaded (it says liberated) the term for serfs was 'talking livestock.' Today employment agencies can act as the pimps, taking a cut while cutting the bid price even further

Countries which pay high wages tend to have better economies (unless the governments mismanage their finances). The US boomed on paying workers higher wages where in turn they s spent more creating more jobs. Admittedly many African-Americans were discriminated against and left behind.

Here's what I was told is a true story.
An entrepreneur with a small business told a group of us he started work at one of the Ford Plants in the 1950s as a design engineer. He had zero experience but got on with the engineers and bought a crate of beer for them after hours while they helped him out.

He did that for a number of months but felt guilty. He went to his boss and told him that he was not an engineer and was leaving. The boss wanted to keep him on. Though he was technically useless, he had raised the tone of the office and productivity in that department had boomed since he arrived. He's even helped one colleague with marital problems.

There are many ways an employee can be useful.

 

[untermensche]

There is no connection between the wealth of a nation and wages.

Wages in places like the US rose because of the power of unions. The power to actually negotiate.

And as the power of unions died in the eighties and beyond wages have stagnated and fallen.

When the dictators have all power and all workers are atomized and none can stand together against the power of concentrated wealth you do not get increases in wages.

 

[coloradoatheist]

There is no connection between the wealth of a nation and wages.

Wages in places like the US rose because of the power of unions. The power to actually negotiate.

And as the power of unions died in the eighties and beyond wages have stagnated and fallen.

When the dictators have all power and all workers are atomized and none can stand together against the power of concentrated wealth you do not get increases in wages.

No. Wages rose because they embraced and supported capitalism and the rise of corporations which enhanced everyone's life. Unions were there because things were bad previously and it was part of the evolution.


Market wages mean individuals decide their own wages. The other option is the government decides what everyone does. Talk about pure slavery.

 

[ZiprHead]

Market wages mean individuals decide their own wages.

Religious fantasy.

 

[untermensche]

There is no connection between the wealth of a nation and wages.

Wages in places like the US rose because of the power of unions. The power to actually negotiate.

And as the power of unions died in the eighties and beyond wages have stagnated and fallen.

When the dictators have all power and all workers are atomized and none can stand together against the power of concentrated wealth you do not get increases in wages.

No. Wages rose because they embraced and supported capitalism and the rise of corporations which enhanced everyone's life. Unions were there because things were bad previously and it was part of the evolution.


Market wages mean individuals decide their own wages. The other option is the government decides what everyone does. Talk about pure slavery.

No.

Corporations and those that ran them as dictators fought wage increases.

In the US these bastards fought extremely violently.

Many people fighting for decent conditions were killed by US capitalists. It is a bloody history.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Market wages mean individuals decide their own wages.

Religious fantasy.

What percentage of us got our wage from the government? I think there are a few people here who have public sector jobs, but it's a small percentage.

 

[untermensche]

Religious fantasy.

What percentage of us got our wage from the government? I think there are a few people here who have public sector jobs, but it's a small percentage.

What does any employer with stock holders pay it's employees?

As little as possible?

Or as much as possible?

What do they pay the CEO?

Where does the money to pay these huge CEO and top executive salaries, not to mention their perks, come from?

 

[coloradoatheist]

What percentage of us got our wage from the government? I think there are a few people here who have public sector jobs, but it's a small percentage.

What does any employer with stock holders pay it's employees?

As little as possible?

Or as much as possible?

What do they pay the CEO?

Where does the money to pay these huge CEO and top executive salaries, not to mention their perks, come from?

But it's multiple parties that have an interest. The business has to find the interaction between finding employees that can do the job and at prices that satisfy the consumers. Consumers want the lowest prices, businesses want to pay the least, and employees want to be paid the most they can. It's the interestion of all of them that have to come together to work.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In other words, pay no attention to the inconvenient reality.

Why doesn't the sole proprietor plumber make a lot more money than the employee plumber?? There are plenty of sole proprietor businesses around. (Got a surprise some years back this way--I called the number on a trailer to tell the company the door was unlatched and swinging open, hoping they had some way of getting in touch with the driver. Turns out I was talking to the driver.)

What is the difference between a dictatorial power structure and a democratic power structure?

This is not about plumbers.

This is about economic dictators with real power driving the entire planet off a cliff.

And worthless fools, worms, that cheer for dictatorial splendor.

Once again you stick your head in your bible when faced with unpleasant facts.

I simply picked plumbers because they are a sufficiently low-capital, low-license field that it's practical for a competent plumber to get the equipment they need to go into business for themselves.

 

[whichphilosophy]

There is no connection between the wealth of a nation and wages.

Wages in places like the US rose because of the power of unions. The power to actually negotiate.

And as the power of unions died in the eighties and beyond wages have stagnated and fallen.

When the dictators have all power and all workers are atomized and none can stand together against the power of concentrated wealth you do not get increases in wages.

I was talking about how higher payments create greater spending. Higher spending creates demand and more jobs fill are needed. This is not ideal but better than the created wealth being squirrelled away by the bloated capitalist in offshore accounts while his cut price workers gain no benefit.