Unskilled =/= Not Valuable

[Tigers!]

Well, as you have noted time and time again, wages are determined by replacement cost not "value".

That is "market value". The lowest possible cost to get what you need.

It is a form of theft.

An immorality.

Naturally you also pay above market rates for all the goods & services you purchase, so as not to be accused of theft.

 

[untermensche]

Value is subjective and personal. No one "sets it".

Carrots may be worth 10 cents a pound to someone and 10 dollars a pound to someone else.

The value the labor of humans produces in a year is subjective and personal?

I think you are deluded.

In theory it can be many things. In reality at the end of the year it is only one.

The question is how is this value the humans produced divided?

Does some dictator or group of dictators take the lion's share and give a "market wage" to others?

Or is the value produced by the humans working together divided fairly and justly?

Do we end up with a divisive destructive society of takers and victims?

Or a decent and just society?

 

[untermensche]

That is "market value". The lowest possible cost to get what you need.

It is a form of theft.

An immorality.

Naturally you also pay above market rates for all the goods & services you purchase, so as not to be accused of theft.

You cannot steal from a good.

Giving humans the lowest possible wage and calling it the "magic of the market wage" or the "flying carpet wage" doesn't matter.

It is still a form of theft.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Giving humans the lowest possible wage and calling it the "magic of the market wage" or the "flying carpet wage" doesn't matter.

It is still a form of theft.

Theft is taking something from someone against their will. In regard to wages, that would be slavery. People who AGREE to work for a wage are not slaves. Even where employers take advantage of economic hardship, the employer didn't specifically and exclusively create those hardships. Society at large did. This is why we should have universal basic income.

 

[ksen]

Too bad those against raising the minimum wage are also generally not in favor of a ubi or the social safety net.

 

[untermensche]

Giving humans the lowest possible wage and calling it the "magic of the market wage" or the "flying carpet wage" doesn't matter.

It is still a form of theft.

Theft is taking something from someone against their will. In regard to wages, that would be slavery. People who AGREE to work for a wage are not slaves. Even where employers take advantage of economic hardship, the employer didn't specifically and exclusively create those hardships. Society at large did. This is why we should have universal basic income.

Theft is also taking what somebody else has earned with their labor and not telling them.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Giving humans the lowest possible wage and calling it the "magic of the market wage" or the "flying carpet wage" doesn't matter.

It is still a form of theft.

Theft is taking something from someone against their will. In regard to wages, that would be slavery. People who AGREE to work for a wage are not slaves. Even where employers take advantage of economic hardship, the employer didn't specifically and exclusively create those hardships. Society at large did. This is why we should have universal basic income.

A worker is a disadvantaged worker and may have no choice. An employer in paying below a living wage does contribute to poverty or lack of spending powers. There are instances where an employer may not even be able to afford to hire someone (small shops etc). A minimum sounds good in theory but some employers take this as the maximum wage.

 

[untermensche]

Theft is taking something from someone against their will. In regard to wages, that would be slavery. People who AGREE to work for a wage are not slaves. Even where employers take advantage of economic hardship, the employer didn't specifically and exclusively create those hardships. Society at large did. This is why we should have universal basic income.

A worker is a disadvantaged worker and may have no choice. An employer in paying below a living wage does contribute to poverty or lack of spending powers. There are instances where an employer may not even be able to afford to hire someone (small shops etc). A minimum sounds good in theory but some employers take this as the maximum wage.

All workers in a capitalist system are trapped in an immoral system of theft.

Those at the top steal from all below them. Steal from whoever is not strong or clever enough to resist.

These fucking stupid apes steal on a daily basis as if it is nothing.

Those that live in such systems are sometimes made so stupid they can't even see it.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Well, as you have noted time and time again, wages are determined by replacement cost not "value".

That is "market value". The lowest possible cost to get what you need.

It is a form of theft.

An immorality.

Negative. Market wage is where a company's offered wage equals the workers desired wage. If the two don't bisect, the worker will keep his original job or seek an alternative. Companies routinely offer a wage at below market and then suffer when no workers fill the position.

- - - Updated - - -

A worker is a disadvantaged worker and may have no choice. An employer in paying below a living wage does contribute to poverty or lack of spending powers. There are instances where an employer may not even be able to afford to hire someone (small shops etc). A minimum sounds good in theory but some employers take this as the maximum wage.

All workers in a capitalist system are trapped in an immoral system of theft.

Those at the top steal from all below them. Steal from whoever is not strong or clever enough to resist.

These fucking stupid apes steal on a daily basis as if it is nothing.

Those that live in such systems are sometimes made so stupid they can't even see it.

Agreed. It's an awful system, except for all the rest of the systems!

 

[untermensche]

Agreed. It's an awful system, except for all the rest of the systems!

Exactly what the Americans loyal to the mad King said.

That democracy nonsense. If it is so good why isn't it still around?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Theft is taking something from someone against their will. In regard to wages, that would be slavery. People who AGREE to work for a wage are not slaves. Even where employers take advantage of economic hardship, the employer didn't specifically and exclusively create those hardships. Society at large did. This is why we should have universal basic income.

A worker is a disadvantaged worker and may have no choice. An employer in paying below a living wage does contribute to poverty or lack of spending powers. There are instances where an employer may not even be able to afford to hire someone (small shops etc). A minimum sounds good in theory but some employers take this as the maximum wage.

You're assuming that with a higher minimum wage they would hire just as many workers. That does not appear to be a valid assumption.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

All workers in a capitalist system are trapped in an immoral system of theft.

Those at the top steal from all below them. Steal from whoever is not strong or clever enough to resist.

These fucking stupid apes steal on a daily basis as if it is nothing.

Those that live in such systems are sometimes made so stupid they can't even see it.

Repeating your bible doesn't address the fact that if you were right then the sole proprietor would have a major advantage over an employee doing the same thing. Strangely enough that advantage doesn't show up.

 

[untermensche]

All workers in a capitalist system are trapped in an immoral system of theft.

Those at the top steal from all below them. Steal from whoever is not strong or clever enough to resist.

These fucking stupid apes steal on a daily basis as if it is nothing.

Those that live in such systems are sometimes made so stupid they can't even see it.

Repeating your bible doesn't address the fact that if you were right then the sole proprietor would have a major advantage over an employee doing the same thing. Strangely enough that advantage doesn't show up.

Your fantasies about how things work are simply your acquired socialization. You have never once questioned an assumption from your superiors. You are a tool in other words, not a free human.

This is about morality. Something capitalists laugh at.

Like Kings used to laugh at the questions about legitimacy from the peasants.

 

[bleubird]

Again,the elephant in the room, farm workers. The magic market does not seem to work here.Oh,that's right stupid immigration laws.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Repeating your bible doesn't address the fact that if you were right then the sole proprietor would have a major advantage over an employee doing the same thing. Strangely enough that advantage doesn't show up.

Your fantasies about how things work are simply your acquired socialization. You have never once questioned an assumption from your superiors. You are a tool in other words, not a free human.

This is about morality. Something capitalists laugh at.

Like Kings used to laugh at the questions about legitimacy from the peasants.

In other words, pay no attention to the inconvenient reality.

Why doesn't the sole proprietor plumber make a lot more money than the employee plumber?? There are plenty of sole proprietor businesses around. (Got a surprise some years back this way--I called the number on a trailer to tell the company the door was unlatched and swinging open, hoping they had some way of getting in touch with the driver. Turns out I was talking to the driver.)

 

[dismal]

Why doesn't the sole proprietor plumber make a lot more money than the employee plumber??

The imperialists.

 

[untermensche]

Your fantasies about how things work are simply your acquired socialization. You have never once questioned an assumption from your superiors. You are a tool in other words, not a free human.

This is about morality. Something capitalists laugh at.

Like Kings used to laugh at the questions about legitimacy from the peasants.

In other words, pay no attention to the inconvenient reality.

Why doesn't the sole proprietor plumber make a lot more money than the employee plumber?? There are plenty of sole proprietor businesses around. (Got a surprise some years back this way--I called the number on a trailer to tell the company the door was unlatched and swinging open, hoping they had some way of getting in touch with the driver. Turns out I was talking to the driver.)

What is the difference between a dictatorial power structure and a democratic power structure?

This is not about plumbers.

This is about economic dictators with real power driving the entire planet off a cliff.

And worthless fools, worms, that cheer for dictatorial splendor.

 

[coloradoatheist]

In other words, pay no attention to the inconvenient reality.

Why doesn't the sole proprietor plumber make a lot more money than the employee plumber?? There are plenty of sole proprietor businesses around. (Got a surprise some years back this way--I called the number on a trailer to tell the company the door was unlatched and swinging open, hoping they had some way of getting in touch with the driver. Turns out I was talking to the driver.)

What is the difference between a dictatorial power structure and a democratic power structure?

This is not about plumbers.

This is about economic dictators with real power driving the entire planet off a cliff.

And worthless fools, worms, that cheer for dictatorial splendor.

One that acts quickly because it needs to, compared to one that acts slowly because it's supposed to act slowly.

 

[untermensche]

What is the difference between a dictatorial power structure and a democratic power structure?

This is not about plumbers.

This is about economic dictators with real power driving the entire planet off a cliff.

And worthless fools, worms, that cheer for dictatorial splendor.

One that acts quickly because it needs to, compared to one that acts slowly because it's supposed to act slowly.

One ignores serious environmental problems because it is profitable.

One drives leaders to war, to the endless war of the last 16 years, to protect investments.

One prevents investment in real change because it takes from profits.

One is destroying the future for everyone.

And still there are worms that defend them.

 

[coloradoatheist]

One that acts quickly because it needs to, compared to one that acts slowly because it's supposed to act slowly.

One ignores serious environmental problems because it is profitable.

One drives leaders to war, to the endless war of the last 16 years, to protect investments.

One prevents investment in real change because it takes from profits.

One is destroying the future for everyone.

And still there are worms that defend them.

Humans have been at war since pretty much day 1, doesn't matter which structure is in at the top. Your beef should be against government, though the irony is that every solution you advocate is more government.