US high-speed trains on track again?

[Jimmy Higgins]

The viability of high speed rail is a function of passenger volume. Very few places in the US have the sort of passenger volume to support it.

Sure there are, in the Midwest, Northwest, West Coast, Southeast. Planes don't fly to all the intermediate destinations, the go to hubs. In the midwest, Cleveland, Toledo, South Bend, Chicago. Four stops. West coast, Seattle, Portland, Sacramento, etc... You don't need a lot of stops. You are connecting only the cities, not doing an Amtrak.

And there are plenty of people that could use high speed rail. Volume isn't the problem.

Property is. The US owns virtually no railway, so means building it from scratch. The Northeast and West are very expensive! Cutting a high speed rail swath through the Northeast from Boston to DC?! Connecticut is a nuts! The Acela needed special designs because of all of the curves that track has. And forget the run from NYC to DC where space isn't... you'd need to bury a lot of the track probably. The Midwest is a bit better as there isn't as much value in property between the cities. But ultimately, I think it is property... and hubbing in the city. The advantage of trains is arriving in the city, not an hour outside of it. Generally, these hubs are also hubs for subways and buses. But you need to be able to have the track get into the city hubs.

 

[lpetrich]

President-elect Joe Biden got the name "Amtrak Joe" for his championing of the US's national passenger railroad system, a system whose trains he frequently rides.

Biden Is Good News for High-Speed Rail – Streetsblog California

Sam Mintz on Twitter: "Joe Biden's infrastructure plan says he wants to "spark the second great rail revolution."

Here's what that might look like in a post-Covid world.

Comments from top Biden transportation adviser John Porcari today https://t.co/EZUOVXgGbf" / Twitter

One of the ways we can build back better clearly is with passenger rail. Amtrak has done remarkably well with the limited resources it has had.

If you're in a small or medium sized city and you're looking at air service right now, the likelihood is that you're losing air service.

Serving some of those city pairs through passenger rail is an economic lifeline for cities throughout the country, in the longer term in particular.

Those are the kinds of discussions we should have if we're talking about a need for connectivity 2 or 3 or 400 miles apart.

We should reserve the really expensive and precious runway capacity for transcontinental flights, flights to hubs and international flights.

 

[lpetrich]

USHSR releases five-point, high-speed rail plan with project list | Mass Transit

• Create a new high-speed rail development authority within the U.S. Department of Transportation
• Select the nation's top five high-speed rail priority projects
• Select the second-tier projects
• Coordinate closely on Transit-Oriented Development (TOD) planning with local cities and jurisdictions
• Work with the airlines and airports to replace short-haul flights with high speed rail

The top five:

• California HSR - $60B
• Texas HSR - $20B
• Northeast Corridor upgrade, NYC tunnels - $50B
• Pacific NW (Cascadia) HSR - $40B
• Florida (Tampa - Orlando) HSR - $2.5B

Next ones:

• Chicago - Milwaukee HSR - $8B
• Atlanta - Charlotte HSR - $18B
• Louisville - Nashville HSR - $15B
• Denver - Albuquerque HSR - $40B
• Chicago - St. Louis HSR - $18B
• Tulsa - Oklahoma City HSR - $30B
• Chicago - Detroit HSR - $30B
• Nashville - Memphis HSR - $15B
• Kansas City - St. Louis HSR - $19B
• Chicago - Indianapolis HSR - $17B

 

[lpetrich]

Do you think Hyperloop will kill High-Speed Rail? : highspeedrail - That's Elon Musk's recently-proposed vactrain system.

That Reddit post has a poll, with these votes:

• 7 - 4.4% - Hyperloop will effectively replace High-Speed Rail both in existing and planned lines
• 5 - 3.1% - Hyperloop will be constructed in countries where there is no High-Speed Rail e.g. India, South Africa, Brazil
• 63 - 39.4% - Hyperloop will only be constructed in handful of lines, never actually proving its potential e.g. UAE
• 85 - 53.1% - Hyperloop will fail hard, never leaving test tracks

Like the voters in that poll, the thread's OP author was very skeptical about it.

Virgin Hyperloop Has Invented The World's Crappiest High-Speed Rail | Defector

Shocking news! In an incredible breakthrough for American mass-transit engineering, the transportation technology company Virgin Hyperloop this past weekend successfully moved two people 500 meters across the barren Las Vegas desert at a top speed of just over 100 mph, setting a new world record for the absolute most pitiful thing anyone not named “Elon Musk” has ever tried to pass off as “high-speed rail.”

 

[lpetrich]

Brightline is not quite high-speed rail, but it's the first non-Amtrak start in US intercity passenger rail in a long time. It already runs Miami - West Palm Beach in SE Florida.

Brightline looks to have Tampa-Orlando high-speed rail route complete by 2025 | Blogs - Construction should start in 2022.

Railroad Construction | Brightline

Construction is underway on the 170-mile Orlando extension between West Palm Beach and Orlando, which will connect train service from South Florida to Central Florida. Construction includes road, rail and bridge work as well as railroad crossing upgrades and improvements.

...
In preparation for train service, Brightline will upgrade and improve a total of 28 bridges and 155 at-grade railroad crossings along the corridor between West Palm Beach and Cocoa, which parallels the existing Florida East Coast Railway. During these temporary closures, at-grade crossings will be closed to vehicular and pedestrian traffic and watercraft may experience temporary delays at bridges.

Brightline’s track construction pushes train tunnel under Orlando’s Goldenrod Road - Orlando Sentinel


Looking in another Sun Belt state, Construction of Texas high-speed line due to start in 2021 | International Railway Journal - a Houston - Dallas line

 

[lpetrich]

I flew from New York to Boston and returned on Amtrak. Here's why the train blew the plane out of the water during the pandemic.

Less than 200 miles separate New York and Boston, and there's no shortage of transportation options to get between the two cities.

Travelers can drive, fly, take the train or a bus between the two cities and each will often cost less than $50 in each direction.

The two fastest methods, however, come down to flying or taking the train. Flights routinely take less than an hour once airborne, while taking the train is a four-hour affair.

But when factoring in externalities such as getting to and from the airport and delays, both modes often even out time-wise. And during the pandemic, travelers now have to weigh the health and safety aspects of each mode of transportation while booking, which greatly varies between Amtrak and the airlines.

Why he would ride Amtrak again on this route.

• Amtrak has better social distancing policies than most airlines
• Getting to a train station was more convenient than going to an airport
• Taking the train is less invasive than flying
• There's more time to work or relax when riding the rails
• Trains offer unbeatable downtown-to-downtown service

But he concedes some downsides.

• Dilapidated infrastructure
• Aging rolling stock

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Talking US passenger trains and the NE Corridor is a bit uneven. Yes, the NE Corridor is definitely a viable run. Acela makes it pretty quick, though, not much quicker than the Expresses. But get to Penn Station (downtown NYC), down a couple stairways, through a long corridor or two and you are there. Wait, go down another flight of stairs and onto the train you go (with plenty of space for bags). Then in about 4 to 6 hours, you are in Boston (not a subway ride on the Blue Line or a cab ride from it). I haven't ridden it since they electrified New Haven to Boston, making the engine change there unnecessary. Of course, the one thing hurting the NE Corridor is the track, both dilapidated track between NYC and DC and endless curving track in Connecticut which prevents actual high speed travel, which would crush airline travel.

I have been reading nightmare stories for the long distance trains and them being understocked, not cleaned enough, which is insane for a train you'll be on for a while. We had a similar experience on the Lake Shore Limited several years ago, with the bathrooms not being supplied. WTF?!

 

[lpetrich]

Pete Buttigieg is now Transportation Secretary for the Biden Administration. Biden Cabinet: Pete Buttigieg receives Senate confirmation as transportation secretary - ABC7 San Francisco - confirmed 86-13.

Pete Buttigieg: I want the United States to be leading the world in high speed rail - "Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg joins The ReidOut to talk about the future of high speed rail in the United States and having racially equitable transportation policy."
Interviewed by Joy-Ann Reid of The Reidout, who said that she loves trains. As do I.

Buttigieg: "U.S. must become high-speed rail global leader" | High Speed Rail Alliance

Reid, who started the segment by calling trains “the most civilized way to travel,” told Biden’s new cabinet member that he has the opportunity to “really dig in and make some changes.” She followed by asking how long it would take “before I get my high-speed rail.”

“I can’t wait,” said Buttigieg, who noted that countries all over the world—including Japan, the U.K., and Turkey—already have HSR. “I feel the same way you do. As you know, the president is a big believer in passenger rail, too. We’ve been asked to settle for less in this country, and I just don’t know why people in other countries ought to have better train service and more investment in high-speed train service than Americans do.

“Amtrak has done a heroic job with the constraints that have been placed on them. Now, we’ve got to take things to the next level.”

 

[lpetrich]

Electric vehicles, high-speed rail lead Biden’s transportation plans

Cutting a stark contrast to President Donald Trump, President-elect Joe Biden has put the battle against climate change as one of his top priorities. Key to that fight will be the transition to cleaner modes of transportation, an endeavor that will be firmly centered in California, where nearly 40 million people need to get around.

During his campaign, Biden promised to transform transportation, "making it easier for mobility to be powered by electricity and clean fuels, including commuter trains, school and transit buses, ferries, and passenger vehicles."

His proposals run parallel to California's efforts, where work has already begun to address its largest source of planet-warming emissions. In 2020, California Gov. Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, signed orders to phase out the sale of new internal combustion engine cars. Meanwhile, construction of high-speed rail has long been underway, albeit facing delays and cost overruns.

In his plans, Biden pledged to build a nationwide network of electric vehicle charging stations, invest in battery research, electrify the rail system and expand high-speed rail across the country, including in California.

California HSR is Peachy – Streetsblog San Francisco

California’s high-speed rail project is now poised to receive some $20 billion in federal funding, thanks to yesterday’s two senate seat runoff elections in Georgia. “I think this will be great news for CAHSR,” said Andy Kunz, President & CEO of the US HSR association. He added that between Joe Biden’s support for rail and the expected stimulus bill that will come out of the White House, coupled with a Democrat-controlled legislature, California’s rail project in particular stands to gain.

“As the new administration addresses climate change (which is one of their top mandates), it turns out building a national HSR network is the large-scale, fastest way to reduce carbon from our transportation and energy sectors simultaneously, and is the centerpiece of a sustainable America. High-speed rail is the world’s greenest form of transportation.”

California high-speed rail has the nice feature that it is "shovel-ready", with further work on it ready to go.

 

[lpetrich]

California High-Speed Rail Authority | State of California

• Phase 1:
• San Francisco - San Jose - Gilroy - (Central Valley Wye at Chowchilla)
• (CVY) - Merced
• (CVY) - Fresno - Bakersfield - Palmdale - Burbank - Los Angeles - Anaheim
• Phase 2:
• Merced - Stockton - Sacramento
• Los Angeles - Riverside - San Diego

The part currently under construction is Merced - CVY - Fresno - Bakersfield, and the next parts to start construction are likely CVY - Gilroy - San Jose and Bakersfield - Palmdale - Burbank.

 

[Elixir]

California High-Speed Rail Authority | State of California

• Phase 1:
• San Francisco - San Jose - Gilroy - (Central Valley Wye at Chowchilla)
• (CVY) - Merced
• (CVY) - Fresno - Bakersfield - Palmdale - Burbank - Los Angeles - Anaheim
• Phase 2:
• Merced - Stockton - Sacramento
• Los Angeles - Riverside - San Diego

The part currently under construction is Merced - CVY - Fresno - Bakersfield, and the next parts to start construction are likely CVY - Gilroy - San Jose and Bakersfield - Palmdale - Burbank.

This should be interesting... a SF to LA high speed rail system was under discussion in the 1960s. It was determined that there would be insufficient ridership to support even the maintenance, let alone justify the initial outlay.
The BART system was selected as a more viable "proof of concept". The inadequacy of the Bay and Richmond bridges was a guarantee of ridership, so it had that in its favor*. Even with that, passenger and parking revenue have to be augmented with taxes and financial assistance from state and local counties. Now they've got "new and improved" rail cars coming, featuring narrower seats so they can cram more people into a train.
Much as I like the idea of a West Coast high speed rail system, I'm very skeptical about how the reality will pan out.

* BART opened in 1972, the same year I moved to CO from the Bay area. I remember taking a trip back to CA just to check it out.

 

[lpetrich]

Carl Zha on Twitter: "The High Speed Rail development by country (1976-present) (link)" / Twitter
Has an animated chart of the relative amounts over the years.

Starts out in the mid-1970's with Japan being the champion, but some European nations catch up by the mid-1990's. Then China gets started and passes the Europeans in 2009. It now has more than 7 times as much high-speed trackage than the second-biggest nation, Spain, and over 10 times as much as Japan, now in 5th place.

Peter Turchin on Twitter: "Embarrassing that US is off the chart (fewer km than Finland!)
It's a good indicator of how much our elites care about the infrastructure..." / Twitter

But that could change. President Joe Biden was jokingly known as the Senator from Amtrak - he'd commute by Amtrak train from his Delaware home. The Obama Admin pushed high-speed rail, but that effort stalled after 2010. But might it start again?

Biden's infrastructure plan could give passenger rail a big boost - Axios

 

[lpetrich]

North Atlantic Rail - a big program of rail upgrades and possible new high-speed lines
Components — North Atlantic Rail - has lots of maps

Tt's very ambitious. From the home page:

• Connecticut
  • New Haven and Hartford Line modernization
  • Double track and electrification of Waterbury & Danbury branch lines; upgrades to Hartford - Springfield line
• Massachusetts
  • East-West Rail Line from Boston-Worcester-Springfield, and potential extension to Pittsfield
  • Transformation of MBTA Commuter Rail into regional rail network with extensions to Fall River, New Bedford and electrification of Fairmount, Lynn, and Providence service
  • Construction of North-South Rail Link
• New York
  • New high-speed rail line from Ronkonkoma to Penn Station
  • New Haven Line modernization from Port Chester and New Rochelle to Penn Station and Grand Central
• Vermont
  • Modernization and extension of Valley Flyer service from Greenfield to White River Junction and beyond
  • New passenger rail link between Burlington and Montreal
• Maine
  • Modernization of Downeaster Service to Portland and Brunswick, extension to Lewiston-Auburn and possibly to Bangor
• New Hampshire
  • New commuter rail link from Manchester and Nashua to Boston
• Rhode Island
  • Direct connection to Hartford, CT and Long Island, NY
  • High-speed, frequent rail service from Kingston, TF Green Airport and Providence to South Station
• Entire Seven-State Region
  • New 100-minute high-speed rail link from Boston to New York City

Upgrades and extensions of several commuter-rail lines and intercity lines, and adding a new high-speed line.

 

[lpetrich]

The new high-speed line is to run:

NYC - central Long Island - (tunnel under Long Island Sound) - New Haven CT - Hartford CT - Providence RI - Boston MA

Could An Infrastructure Stimulus Fund High-Speed Rail for New England? – StreetsblogMASS

Bullet trains in America? The new push for major high-speed rail project between Boston and New York

I asked for a comment from the new Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. His team told me they weren’t ready to comment on the proposal right now but pointed me to an interview Buttigieg did with Joy Reid on MSNBC where he said, “I want the U.S. to be leading the world when it comes to access to high-speed rail, and I think we have a real opportunity to do that, especially with the bipartisan appetite for real investments that we have before us this year.”

In an interview with TPG last month, Buttigieg told me, “… an American citizen should have nothing to envy from a Japanese or Chinese or for that matter, an Italian or Turkish citizen when it comes to the opportunities for them to travel quickly where they need to be, and safely on passenger rail.”

The Big Dreams of an NYC-to-Boston Bullet Train - Bloomberg - "The president promised to go big on infrastructure. The $105 billion North Atlantic Rail plan between Boston and New York City definitely fits the bill."

And so the jockeying has begun among backers of a range of rail projects to demonstrate just how worthy they are. Supporters of the Gateway Program under the Hudson River — a $30 billion plan to repair and upgrade a critical rail link to New York City that was derailed during the Trump administration — expect that this long-planned project will reemerge as a priority. High-speed rail projects in Texas, California, Las Vegas, Cascadia and Florida are also in the mix, and more will surely emerge. But backers of North Atlantic Rail are preparing to make the case that their megaproject “checks all the boxes for a multi-benefit recovery strategy,” according to Scott Wolf, executive director of Grow Smart Rhode Island, another NAR partner.

The Northeast Corridor needs upgrading, and not just the Hudson tunnels in the Gateway Program.

Bu of new lines, the best one is, I think, the California system, since its progress is very visible.

 

[steve_bank]

The Long Island solution would be high speed surface rail. The Long Island Expressway is sometimes called the worlds biggest parking lot. I lived on LI until we moved to Stamford across the sound. I have relatives at Mastic Beach LI.

Hartford is inland. A high speed link to Boston would be better.

High speed hovercraft might be a better cross sound alternative.

Bridgeport and New Haven on the CT coast are depressed, don't know why anyone needs to get there in a hurry..

 

[lpetrich]

The Long Island solution would be high speed surface rail. The Long Island Expressway is sometimes called the worlds biggest parking lot. I lived on LI until we moved to Stamford across the sound. I have relatives at Mastic Beach LI.

Hartford is inland. A high speed link to Boston would be better.

High speed hovercraft might be a better cross sound alternative.

Bridgeport and New Haven on the CT coast are depressed, don't know why anyone needs to get there in a hurry..

steve_bank, I suggest looking at the maps of the proposed lines. Rail lines are not airline routes. Trains can and do stop at intermediate stops.

The proposed NYC-Boston high-speed route includes stops at New Haven, Hartford, and Providence, cities along the way. So your issues disappear.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The Long Island solution would be high speed surface rail. The Long Island Expressway is sometimes called the worlds biggest parking lot. I lived on LI until we moved to Stamford across the sound. I have relatives at Mastic Beach LI.

Hartford is inland. A high speed link to Boston would be better.

High speed hovercraft might be a better cross sound alternative.

Bridgeport and New Haven on the CT coast are depressed, don't know why anyone needs to get there in a hurry..

The Hartford connection I believe would be to get the line away from the land that costs a trillion dollars per acre, and a bonus city is added. Likely doesn't increase time also due to screwy curved coastline track. Heading to Providence might be because around there is where the current Acela actually reaches its highest speeds, meaning straights. And Providence isn't exactly out of the way.

Long Island Sound? 20 to 30 miles is what... $250 million per mile, to be dirt cheap (Musk is fucking out of his mind with his $10 million /mile idea, a new highway costs just shy of $10 million a mile!), that'd cost $5 to $7.5 billion, just for the tunnel... and honestly, it'd likely be 4 to 5 times that. I'm just curious how this thing lands into New Haven.

 

[lpetrich]

Seth Moulton pushes for $205 billion high speed rail to rebuild U.S. infrastructure and economy - "Congressman appointed to the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure in December"

Moulton released a plan in May to invest $205 billion over five years to begin constructing the rail network, an ambitious goal that the congressman argues will create millions of new jobs and fix infrastructure issues by modernizing the nation’s transportation system.

While the plan had little chance of progressing in May, as Republicans were in control of all three branches of government, the recent shift in party dominance combined with Moulton’s appointment to the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure in December has breathed new life into the proposal.

From last year: American High Speed Rail and Rebuilding the US Economy - 2.pdf
Has a long list of projects:

• California HSR - electric, grid-separated, 225 mph 360 km/h
  • Merced - San Jose
  • San Jose - San Francisco
  • Palmdale - Burbank
  • Burbank - Anaheim
• Northeast Maglev - DC - Baltimore - 311 mph 500 km/h
• California - Nevada - electric, grid-separated, 150 mph 240 km/h
  • High Desert Corridor - Palmdale - Victorville
  • Xpress West - Victorville - Las Vegas
• Brightline - Fkiruda
  • Miami - Orlando - 89 mph 140 km/h
  • Orlando - Tampa - 125 mph 200 km/h - in planning
• Texas Central Railways - Dallas - Brazos Valley - Houston - electric, 225 mph 360 km/h
• Denver - Eagle CO - electric, 150 mph 240 km/h
• Cascadia Ultra-High-Speed Ground Transportation - Portland OR - Seattle - Vancouver BC - electric, grid-separated, 225 mph 360 km/h
• New Orleans LA - Mobile AL - in planning
• Hartford CT - Springfield MA - 89 to 110 mph 140 to 180 km/h
• Fort Collins - Denver - Colorado Springs - Pueblo - 80 mph 130 km/h
• Northeast Corridor improvements - electric, grid-separated, 160 mph 260 km/h
• SEHSR segment - DC - Richmond VA - 110 mph 180 km/h
• New Orleans LA - Jacksonville FL - in planning
• Atlanta GA - Charlotte NC - 110 mph 180 km/h
• Chicago - Quad Cities - Iowa City - Des Moines - Omaha - 79 mph 130 km/h
• Chicago - Detroit - 79 mph 130 km/h
• Chicago - St. Louis - 79 mph 130 km/h - second track
• Chicago - Milwaukee - Minneapolis / St. Paul - 79 mph 130 km/h
• Mew Orleans LA - Baton Rouge LA - in planning
• East-West MA - Boston - Worcester - Springfield - Pittsfield - in planning
• Northern Lights Express (NLX) - Minneapolis - Duluth - 89 mph 140 km/h
• St. Louis - Kansas City
• SEHSR segment - Richmond VA - Raleigh NC - 110 mph 180 km/h
• NYC - Albany - Buffalo - Niagara Falls - 89 to 125 mph 140 to 200 km/h
• Oregon Passenger Rail - Portland - Eugene - 89 mph 140 km/h
• Keystone Line - Philadelphia - Harrisburg - Pittsburgh

Most of the plans are essentially for upgrades of existing lines with trains hauled by diesel locomotives or else diesel multiple unit railcars, much like most of Amtrak's existing system. The main exceptions are the Northeast Corridor, an existing system of sort-of-high-speed electric trains and the California-Nevada system, an all-new system.

 

[lpetrich]

The Hartford connection I believe would be to get the line away from the land that costs a trillion dollars per acre, and a bonus city is added. Likely doesn't increase time also due to screwy curved coastline track. Heading to Providence might be because around there is where the current Acela actually reaches its highest speeds, meaning straights. And Providence isn't exactly out of the way.

Thanx, JH. Good that someone actually looked at what was being proposed.

Long Island Sound? 20 to 30 miles is what... $250 million per mile, to be dirt cheap (Musk is fucking out of his mind with his $10 million /mile idea, a new highway costs just shy of $10 million a mile!), that'd cost $5 to $7.5 billion, just for the tunnel... and honestly, it'd likely be 4 to 5 times that. I'm just curious how this thing lands into New Haven.

Has Elon Musk ever published how he calculated that cost figure?

It's about 12 miles / 19 km across between Strongs Neck near Port Jefferson on the NY side and Stratford near Bridgeport on the CT side, calculating using the farthest-out bits of land on each side. Between Port Jefferson and Stratford is 17 mi / 27 km.

Home - The Bridgeport and Port Jefferson Steamboat Company - though it's now diesel. For the last half century or so, just about everything bigger than a motorboat is powered by diesel engines. The only surviving steam engines are for nuclear-reactor-powered ships, just like for thermal electric powerplants on land.

From its FAQ, its travel time is 1h 15m. That's 14 mph / 27 km/h average. A train in a tunnel can go about 100 mph / 160 km/h (Chunnel value), meaning a travel time of 10 minutes.

 

[lpetrich]

From the diagram, the line will first follow the Long Island Railroad:

NYC Penn Station - Woodside, Queens - Jamaica, Queens - Hicksville - Bethpage - Farmingdale - Ronkonkoma

The Port Jefferson line branches off at Hicksville, but the route does not follow it.

Instead, the line jags north at RKK and goes to Port Jeff before crossing the LI Sound.

On the other side, it will join the Metro-North / Amtrak line at Bridgeport or Stratford, go to New Haven, then north on the Amtrak line to Hartford. It will then go due east to Providence and then use the existing line to Boston.


H.R.2038 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): To establish a green transportation infrastructure grant program, and for other purposes. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

S.874 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): A bill to establish a green transportation infrastructure grant program, and for other purposes. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

No text yet, so I can't tell what is in it for HSR.