US student loans grotesquely high

[barbos]

Why have colleges become so expensive? Shouldn't that issue be addressed first?

The politicians.

The budgets of colleges haven't gone up unreasonably. The cost to the students has shot up because the government contribution has gone way down.

Compared to 70s, the budgets have gone up ridiculously. And the reason are diversicrats and other useless administrative crap and program expansions.

 

[Jarhyn]

Why have colleges become so expensive? Shouldn't that issue be addressed first?

The politicians.

The budgets of colleges haven't gone up unreasonably. The cost to the students has shot up because the government contribution has gone way down.

Compared to 70s, the budgets have gone up ridiculously. And the reason are diversicrats and other useless administrative crap and program expansions.

Tell me again where it is that you live?

I somehow doubt you have either the perspective or the visibility of the problem necessary to make such proclamations.

Put up some ledgers or shut up.

 

[barbos]

Compared to 70s, the budgets have gone up ridiculously. And the reason are diversicrats and other useless administrative crap and program expansions.

Tell me again where it is that you live?

I somehow doubt you have either the perspective or the visibility of the problem necessary to make such proclamations.

Put up some ledgers or shut up.

Actually I kinda have the perspective. More so than most of you, even though I have never been even close to US 70s.
And yes, what I said is a known and accepted fact.

 

[Jarhyn]

Compared to 70s, the budgets have gone up ridiculously. And the reason are diversicrats and other useless administrative crap and program expansions.

Tell me again where it is that you live?

I somehow doubt you have either the perspective or the visibility of the problem necessary to make such proclamations.

Put up some ledgers or shut up.

Actually I kinda have the perspective. More so than most of you, even though I have never been even close to US 70s.
And yes, what I said is a known and accepted fact.

So, you do admit you have not been within the educational system for longer than most people currently students have been alive, yet you claim to have "perspective"?

Put up some ledgers or shut up.

 

[barbos]

Actually I kinda have the perspective. More so than most of you, even though I have never been even close to US 70s.
And yes, what I said is a known and accepted fact.

So, you do admit you have not been within the educational system for longer than most people currently students have been alive, yet you claim to have "perspective"?
.

Yes

 

[Jarhyn]

Actually I kinda have the perspective. More so than most of you, even though I have never been even close to US 70s.
And yes, what I said is a known and accepted fact.

So, you do admit you have not been within the educational system for longer than most people currently students have been alive, yet you claim to have "perspective"?
.

Yes

Then prove it. If you have perspective, we are here to hear how you got it, how you might justify this claim.

Personally, I attended an american university within the last 7 years, and my own perspective says "this guy is talking out his ass".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why have colleges become so expensive? Shouldn't that issue be addressed first?

The politicians.

The budgets of colleges haven't gone up unreasonably. The cost to the students has shot up because the government contribution has gone way down.

Compared to 70s, the budgets have gone up ridiculously. And the reason are diversicrats and other useless administrative crap and program expansions.

When you look at the inflation-adjusted budgets per student, things haven't increased that much.

 

[Politesse]

Working at a community college as I do, most of my students pay little or no tuition out of pocket... directly. But the loan industry is thriving and predatory, and they end up with financial problems that explode on them uncontrollably five or six years after they leave our institution. I lwould love to see debt forgiveness, but this is a band-aid solution to a gaping wound of a problem. Why is there little to no accountability for fraudulent and exploitative practices by loan providers and shady third party consolidators? And I include the semi-official "FedLoan Services" in that estimation; we need a fully public and fully transparent federal loan system for public schooling. Private schools can do what they like, within the bounds of the law, but we should have a say in the way our own supposedly collectively controlled instutions are run.

 

[barbos]

When you look at the inflation-adjusted budgets per student, things haven't increased that much.

it's always inflation-adjusted. And why would I look per student? But I am glad you admit that it increases even per student.
Program expansion is one of the reason why budgets are increasing.
And private universities don't receive government contributions to tuition. Yet tuition costs increase for them too.

 

[barbos]

Yes

Then prove it. If you have perspective, we are here to hear how you got it, how you might justify this claim.

Personally, I attended an american university within the last 7 years, and my own perspective says "this guy is talking out his ass".

It must have been one shitty university if you have not learned googling.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html

To put those numbers into perspective, a 1988 graduate of Harvard University would have spent $17,100 on tuition during their senior year. Now, in their 50s, they’d have to pay $44,990 in tuition for their child to attend Harvard today.
That makes the current cost more than two-and-a-half times as much as it was in 1988 — a markup of 163 percent.

Private nonprofit four-year institution:

Tuition for 1987-1988: $15,160
Tuition for 1997-1998: $21,020
Tuition for 2007-2008: $27,520
Tuition for 2017-2018: $34,740

Public four-year institution:

Tuition for 1987-1988: $3,190
Tuition for 1997-1998: $4,740
Tuition for 2007-2008: $7,280
Tuition for 2017-2018: $9,970

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It must have been one shitty university if you have not learned googling.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html

To put those numbers into perspective, a 1988 graduate of Harvard University would have spent $17,100 on tuition during their senior year. Now, in their 50s, they’d have to pay $44,990 in tuition for their child to attend Harvard today.
That makes the current cost more than two-and-a-half times as much as it was in 1988 — a markup of 163 percent.

Private nonprofit four-year institution:

Tuition for 1987-1988: $15,160
Tuition for 1997-1998: $21,020
Tuition for 2007-2008: $27,520
Tuition for 2017-2018: $34,740

Public four-year institution:

Tuition for 1987-1988: $3,190
Tuition for 1997-1998: $4,740
Tuition for 2007-2008: $7,280
Tuition for 2017-2018: $9,970

You're forgetting what I said about the government contribution going down. (Not just money to the universities, but grants to students.)

 

[barbos]

It must have been one shitty university if you have not learned googling.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html

You're forgetting what I said about the government contribution going down. (Not just money to the universities, but grants to students.)

I did not forget that.
It is you who is forgetting what I said about private universities.

Truth is, real tuition costs more than doubled in the last 30 years. And budgets probably tripped (because number of students increased as well)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It must have been one shitty university if you have not learned googling.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html

You're forgetting what I said about the government contribution going down. (Not just money to the universities, but grants to students.)

I did not forget that.
It is you who is forgetting what I said about private universities.

Truth is, real tuition costs more than doubled in the last 30 years. And budgets probably tripped (because number of students increased as well)

Private universities follow with public ones.

 

[barbos]

I did not forget that.
It is you who is forgetting what I said about private universities.

Truth is, real tuition costs more than doubled in the last 30 years. And budgets probably tripped (because number of students increased as well)

Private universities follow with public ones.

So? even if it was true, how does it help you? Budget of private universities at least tripled. So if they follow public universities that means their budgets tripled as well.

 

[atrib]

Why have colleges become so expensive? Shouldn't that issue be addressed first?

I think much of the ridiculously high student loan balances are either from doing professional school like med school, and then the income should be enough to easily handle them.
Or it's people who go to private colleges, esp. if they also . Which can be a good career move or it could be something silly like going to a small private lib arts college for BS and PhD in Medieval French Poetry or something.

Public universities are much cheaper, and if you have financial need, there are also federal Pell Grants and many states have programs too. Georgia has the lottery-funded HOPE scholarship that mays most of in-state public university tuition if you maintain a 3.0 GPA or higher.

But you are right that even public school tuitions have increased much faster than inflation. There are many reasons for that, not the least the diversocrats and other administration parasites Trausti mentioned. But also, facilities have become a lot nicer - dorms, libraries, student center, rec center all look nice in order to compete with other colleges. And that costs millions. In Germany, for example, tuition is free, but facilities are much older and drabber looking as a rule.

You forgot to mention how easy it is to get student loans in the first place. 18 year olds with no credit history and no collateral can apply for, and receive tens of thousands of dollars in loans. No wonder the schools keep jacking up prices.

 

[Gospel]

The real issue with Student Loans is that the price of the education doesn't seem to match current market trends for the jobs. For example if the lawyer market is saturated the price for law school should reflect that saturation by being cheaper. High demand jobs should cost more since you're nearly guaranteed to profit from that education meaning the lender is more likely to get their money back. In my opinion, if you're a dumb ass lender that's your fault and the courts shouldn't back your dumbass decision to lend the money.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The real issue with Student Loans is that the price of the education doesn't seem to match current market trends for the jobs. For example if the lawyer market is saturated the price for law school should reflect that saturation by being cheaper. High demand jobs should cost more since you're nearly guaranteed to profit from that education meaning the lender is more likely to get their money back. In my opinion, if you're a dumb ass lender that's your fault and the courts shouldn't back your dumbass decision to lend the money.

No, that's just a case of kicking the can--you'll get students with degrees that aren't worth it, a lifetime problem for them. The cost to the student should go up in the saturated fields--reduce the number of students that take that route.

 

[Swammerdami]

WTH is with the arbitrary $125K as the cut off for free tuition? We already have programs (MANY) for people that come from families with no money. We NEED relief for the MIDDLE CLASS families. My husband and I make above that $125K threshold but there is NO WAY we can afford university for all three of our younger kids. They don't tier crap. Rich families can afford college - poor families get grants, but the middle class kids don't get shit!

How about if the subsidy were 75% at $110k income, and 55% at $150k income, with finer gradations in between? Would that be acceptable to you?

Any legislator with a firm grasp of arithmetic should be able to design programs with no "cliff." But if the plan does indeed call for 100% subsidy at $124k and 0% at $126k, it sounds like you need to ask your employer for a salary cut!

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

On another arithmetic matter, people will want to multiply 1988 dollar figures by an inflation adjustment before comparing with 2020 figures. The suggested adjustment varies from 2.3 to 2.7. If you think your source already uses inflation-adjusted numbers but without saying so explicitly, then find yourself a more competent source.

 

[lpetrich]

Opinion | Is This Where We Are, America? - The New York Times

Author Roxane Gay started off with her history with student loan.

Every month, I pay $1,000 to the federal government. My balance has hovered around $140,000 for the past 10 years because most of each payment goes toward the interest.

...
Student loans are the kind of debt from which there is often no escape. They generally cannot be discharged by claiming bankruptcy. Deferment and forbearance periods are finite. If you default, the stain of it will follow you for quite a long time. The consequences can be devastating — wage garnishments, no tax refunds, whatever the government needs to do to get its money back — and your credit score can be destroyed.

Many progressive politicians feature student loan forgiveness as one of their key policy ideas because they understand how big a problem the student debt crisis is and what it will become without intervention. With Joe Biden as president, there is a distinct possibility that some form of student loan forgiveness might become a reality.

Then about those who complain that it's so unfair, "A great many Americans are concerned with fairness only when they think someone else might get something they won’t get. And they are seething with resentment as they imagine a country in which we help one another."

Consider criminals. Catching a criminal is very unfair to those who were that criminal's victims, as we all know.

Much of the political division about student loan forgiveness can be explained by the fact that people want to benefit from the social contract without adhering to its terms. Or they care about the social contract only as it applies to the right kinds of people. And, of course, there is the bootstrap mentality — If I have achieved success, surely you can too — which is delusional at best. Then there are those who worship at the altar of personal responsibility: If you assume a debt, you must repay it. And worst of all, there’s the sufferance doctrine: If I have experienced hardship, you must experience hardship, too.

...
Here’s the thing about anger. We seem to prioritize only one kind — anger in reaction to progress. And we never seem to acknowledge the anger rising out of oppression, marginalization, and under representation. The end of slavery and desegregation angered lots and lots of people, and so did taxation, suffrage, marriage equality. Progress angers people, but change is not the problem. The rage and resentment are.

 

[lpetrich]

I like this.
Katie Hill on Twitter: "I don’t have college debt because I had family help and I worked and I went to a state school.

I still support cancelling student debt because I’m not an asshole." / Twitter


Philip Beckert on Twitter: "@KatieHill4CA I'm 59 years old and only borrowed a little because state college was cheap 30 years ago.

All these boomers whining about forgiving debt, and blabbering how they did it the honest, hard way are FULL OF IT.

We had it easy. Tuition was damn near free (UW-Madison '85)." / Twitter
That's