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US, Taliban sign deal to withdraw troops from Afghanistan

 
 
 
There's no comparison with Vietnam. We should never have been in Vietnam. At least we had a reason to go into Afghanistan. The problem is, Afghanistan is and will remain, against its will, a client state of Pakistan's.

It's a sensible move and Trump deserves credit for it, but I'll hold my applause for a while.
 
Afghanistan was a knee jerk ill conceived response to 9/11.

Compounded by a second war in Iraq before Afdgahisyan was finished.

Removing Hussein the only restraint on Iran was a blunder. Years of conflict and a lot of money for not mush good.

All's we did as increase anti American hate. The Syrian refugee camps are breeding young anti American potential extremists.

Oh I forgot, how many years ago did GWB declare victory in Iraq? During the 1st war under Bush senior there is a film clip of Cheney saying if we went into Iraq would end up fractured with unpredictable results. Bush senior said it in writing. GWB went in and that is what happened.

You and pyramishead are flip sides of the coin. One side sees all wrong, the other side sees nothing wrong. The first in a series of blunders with military action. The Pentagon Papers shoed that by the mid 60s the military had concluded there was no military solution. Yet LBJ ramped up followed by Nixon, with NK eventually taking over.

Adding the Tonkin Gulf Resolution. An authorization to combat anything in Asia based on a bogus attack on an American ship allegedly by Vietnam.
 
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There is no way for any deal to make peace in Afghanistan. No outside influence has been able to achieve that for centuries. The point of any deal is for the US to save face and leave.
 
laughing dog said:
There is no way for any deal to make peace in Afghanistan. No outside influence has been able to achieve that for centuries. The point of any deal is for the US to save face and leave.
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Yes, exactly. That the Taliban would end up in control of Afghanistan was a foregone conclusion by 2011, probably even earlier, barring an indefinite occupation by the US.

People forget, it was probably the sheer incompetence of Donal Rumsfeld that allowed Bin Laden (among various other core members of Al Qaeda) to escape in 2001. The following is worth a read, even if just the executive summary:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CPRT-111SPRT53709/html/CPRT-111SPRT53709.htm

If we had gone in, hit Al Qaeda hard and managed to kill or capture Bin Laden and then withdrawn without ousting the Taliban, it would have easily been considered a victory. Instead, we chose an impossible strategy that would guarantee defeat.

I hope no one forgets how fucking terrible the Bush Administration was, much worse than Trump, who to his credit, has managed to avoid all out war (despite the idiocy and brinkmanship with Iran).
 
Our leadership over administrations keep on believing that our strong military grantees results.
 
Hi everyone! Remember when I was skeptical about this peace arrangement Trump has made with the Taliban? Turns out I was right about the skepticism. The Afghan government isn't a part of the negotiations:

Afghan President Ashraf Ghani has rejected a Taliban demand for the release of 5,000 prisoners as a condition for talks with the Afghan Government and civilians, included in a deal between the United States and Islamist militants.
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This is Donald Trump's real legacy. From here on out, the United States will forever be considered a foreign power that will break treaties and deals on a whim and have no compunction in throwing an ally under a bus. Good luck having any credibility or projecting any influence with that reputation.
 
Patooka said:
From here on out, the United States will forever be considered a foreign power that will break treaties and deals on a whim and have no compunction in throwing an ally under a bus.
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Too bad the quokka isn't native to the US. It could be our national emblem.
Those little fucks will toss their own offspring at predators to make their escape.

And then probably say, "I hardly knew him, no. Brought me succulents a couple of times. Maybe. And, you know, there are good dingos. Good and bad on both ends of the food chain."
 
There's not "from here on out", that was always our reputation, and deservedly.

Trump recently declared a civil war against our Hmong allies in the Vietnam conflict, resolving to deport as many as possible from this population that sacrificed their lives and lost their own nation on our behalf, being subjected to outright genocide as punishment for trusting the promises of the CIA. We are very deluded about our real role in the world.
 
Do you think the Taliban will play Christmas music on loudspeakers when they retake Kabul like the North Vietnamese did when they conquered Saigon?
 
Politesse said:
Trump recently declared a civil war against our Hmong allies in the Vietnam conflict,
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[citation needed]
resolving to deport as many as possible
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Or is it that those who have not become naturalized and committed crimes serious enough to warrant deportation despite permanent residency status will be deported?
WSAW-TV said:
The Hmong community in the Wausau area is on edge after reports that the Trump Administration is in talks with Laos to allow deportation of non-naturalized Hmong immigrants who are under removal orders in the United States.
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I.e. there are existing deportation orders against these people. What's wrong with deporting them? Being a particular ethnic group should not give you absolute immunity from deportation. And besides, a lot of these Hmong do not seem to have integrated well - for example they still live in "clan" structures.

from this population that sacrificed their lives and lost their own nation on our behalf, being subjected to outright genocide as punishment for trusting the promises of the CIA. We are very deluded about our real role in the world.
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Just because they are Hmong does not give them licence to commit crimes willy-nilly.
Besides, this only affects a few hundred out of a population of 50k in Wisconsin alone.
WSAW-TV said:
Wisconsin has a Hmong population of about 50,000 according to 2010 US Census data. Immigration data from the Syracuse University TRAC Immigration project appears to show that more than 300 immigrants from Laos, which would include Hmong, are currently under removal orders in the Chicago immigrant court that includes the Wisconsin jurisdiction.
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Hardly a "civil war" against the Hmong. 300/50000 is less than 1%!
 
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