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Venezuela - Updated Chronicles in Socialist Success Stories!

NPR? They are a puppet of the US government. Joe Biden probably wrote that drivel himself.

Again, it is this and the economic warfare from the US.

There are the things the Venezuelan government is doing, each of which is debatable in itself, AND US attempts to isolate and starve the Venezuelan economy and convince Venezuelan companies to leave.

Nobody is claiming the US government is making all economic decisions in Venezuela.

Your argument is a Strawman.
 
NPR? They are a puppet of the US government. Joe Biden probably wrote that drivel himself.

Again, it is this and the economic warfare from the US.

There are the things the Venezuelan government is doing, each of which is debatable in itself, AND US attempts to isolate and starve the Venezuelan economy and convince Venezuelan companies to leave.

Nobody is claiming the US government is making all economic decisions in Venezuela.

Your argument is a Strawman.

The problem seems to be you offer no specifics about what the US is actually doing. How are they isolating and starving the Venezuelan economy? Is there a fleet of US warships in Lake Maracaibo?

My argument that Joe Biden is sabotaging Venezuela via NPR is at least as deep and well thought out as anything you have provided. For one thing, that article is definitively known to exist.
 
Again, it is this and the economic warfare from the US.

There are the things the Venezuelan government is doing, each of which is debatable in itself, AND US attempts to isolate and starve the Venezuelan economy and convince Venezuelan companies to leave.

Nobody is claiming the US government is making all economic decisions in Venezuela.

Your argument is a Strawman.

The problem seems to be you offer no specifics about what the US is actually doing. How are they isolating and starving the Venezuelan economy? Is there a fleet of US warships in Lake Maracaibo?

My argument that Joe Biden is sabotaging Venezuela via NPR is at least as deep and well thought out as anything you have provided. For one thing, that article is definitively known to exist.

On every examination of released documentation of actual US intentions, secret policy, we see that it is a matter of US policy to attack any deviation from the US dominated economic structure and demand that all nations allow US corporations to exploit resources and populations.

This is US policy.

Your feigned ignorance to the real policies of the US government is amusing.
 
There are the things the Venezuelan government is doing, each of which is debatable in itself, AND US attempts to isolate and starve the Venezuelan economy and convince Venezuelan companies to leave.

This is redolent of how the old Soviet Union always blamed imaginary capitalist saboteurs for inefficient production and shortages. It was never the fault of the government system; no, no, can't be that.

146333_600.jpg
 
The problem seems to be you offer no specifics about what the US is actually doing. How are they isolating and starving the Venezuelan economy? Is there a fleet of US warships in Lake Maracaibo?

My argument that Joe Biden is sabotaging Venezuela via NPR is at least as deep and well thought out as anything you have provided. For one thing, that article is definitively known to exist.

On every examination of released documentation of actual US intentions, secret policy, we see that it is a matter of US policy to attack any deviation from the US dominated economic structure and demand that all nations allow US corporations to exploit resources and populations.

This is US policy.

Your feigned ignorance to the real policies of the US government is amusing.

Again, what specifically are they doing. Be as precise as possible.
 
There are the things the Venezuelan government is doing, each of which is debatable in itself, AND US attempts to isolate and starve the Venezuelan economy and convince Venezuelan companies to leave.

This is redolent of how the old Soviet Union always blamed imaginary capitalist saboteurs for inefficient production and shortages. It was never the fault of the government system; no, no, can't be that.

View attachment 2240

And you sound like a US apologist that still defends things like the US overthrow of democratically elected governments in Chile, Guatemala, and Haiti.

Reagan and his henchmen (many of the same people behind the US invasion of Iraq) launched a massive terrorist war against Nicaragua because it tried to break free from the US dominated and controlled economic system.

We have isolated and attacked Cuba because it tried to break free.

The same was done in Guatemala. And Venezuela. A coup was supported.

It is clear US policy. You either get in line and bend over to US policy or you will be attacked.

It takes remarkable vision not to see it.
 
This is redolent of how the old Soviet Union always blamed imaginary capitalist saboteurs for inefficient production and shortages. It was never the fault of the government system; no, no, can't be that.

View attachment 2240

And you sound like a US apologist that still defends things like the US overthrow of democratically elected governments in Chile, Guatemala, and Haiti.

Reagan and his henchmen (many of the same people behind the US invasion of Iraq) launched a massive terrorist war against Nicaragua because it tried to break free from the US dominated and controlled economic system.

We have isolated and attacked Cuba because it tried to break free.

The same was done in Guatemala. And Venezuela. A coup was supported.

It is clear US policy. You either get in line and bend over to US policy or you will be attacked.

It takes remarkable vision not to see it.

So a coup attempted a long ago is responsible for these shortages?
 
This is redolent of how the old Soviet Union always blamed imaginary capitalist saboteurs for inefficient production and shortages. It was never the fault of the government system; no, no, can't be that.

View attachment 2240

And you sound like a US apologist that still defends things like the US overthrow of democratically elected governments in Chile, Guatemala, and Haiti.

Reagan and his henchmen (many of the same people behind the US invasion of Iraq) launched a massive terrorist war against Nicaragua because it tried to break free from the US dominated and controlled economic system.

We have isolated and attacked Cuba because it tried to break free.

The same was done in Guatemala. And Venezuela. A coup was supported.

It is clear US policy. You either get in line and bend over to US policy or you will be attacked.

It takes remarkable vision not to see it.

Then let me join the chorus: What specifically are you referring to?
 
On every examination of released documentation of actual US intentions, secret policy, we see that it is a matter of US policy to attack any deviation from the US dominated economic structure and demand that all nations allow US corporations to exploit resources and populations.

This is US policy.

Your feigned ignorance to the real policies of the US government is amusing.

Again, what specifically are they doing. Be as precise as possible.

One method is to use the corporate media to construct a false image.

Piñera Praises Chávez at CELAC Summit; Media Influences Public Opinion on Venezuela But Not So Much Governments

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/the-americas-blog/pinera-praises-chavez-at-celac-summit-media-influences-public-opinion-but-not-so-much-governments

What the government is doing at this very moment is secret.

All we can know is what policies it has followed in the past.

You simply want to ignore the past and pretend that long standing US policies changed by some magic for no reason.
 
So the the US is sending magic elves and fairies down there to cause economic problems and we just have to take your word for it that there are elves and fairies. We can say the coup caused the issues because it didn't get Chavez out of office and somebody that knew economics into office.
 
Again, what specifically are they doing. Be as precise as possible.

One method is to use the corporate media to construct a false image.

Piñera Praises Chávez at CELAC Summit; Media Influences Public Opinion on Venezuela But Not So Much Governments

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/the-americas-blog/pinera-praises-chavez-at-celac-summit-media-influences-public-opinion-but-not-so-much-governments

What the government is doing at this very moment is secret.

All we can know is what policies it has followed in the past.

You simply want to ignore the past and pretend that long standing US policies changed by some magic for no reason.

Occam's butter knife par excellence.
 
Occam's butter knife par excellence.

Your opinion and lack of any substance is noted.

How does the US get populations to move in directions it favors?

It uses the press. We saw that as clear as day in the buildup to the invasion of Iraq.

Chavez won election after election yet according to the US press he was some kind of hated dictator.
 
Again, what specifically are they doing. Be as precise as possible.

One method is to use the corporate media to construct a false image.

Like what specifically? Assuming you are not talking about Joe Biden planting that NPR story.

And how exactly has the media caused any of the problems Venezuela is experiencing?

Try to put it into the form "The media reported X, and this caused Y to happen to Venezuela's economy". Until you specifically tell me what X and Y are it's hard for me to understand what you are talking about here.

What the government is doing at this very moment is secret.

No, I want you to provide some plausible evidence to support your claim. I'm looking for some credible explanation of how the US is causing shortages, inflation, lack of investment and black markets as opposed to Venezuela's internal economic policies which are commonly understood to cause shortages, inflation, lack of investment and black markets.

Right now you seem to be working on faith alone.
 
No, I want you to provide some plausible evidence to support your claim. I'm looking for some credible explanation of how the US is causing shortages, inflation, lack of investment and black markets as opposed to Venezuela's internal economic policies which are commonly understood to cause shortages, inflation, lack of investment and black markets.

Right now you seem to be working on faith alone.

It's not faith to say that long standing US policies don't magically change for no reason.

Find an example of a nation in the Western hemisphere that tried to break free from the US dominated system that wasn't attacked.
 
No, I want you to provide some plausible evidence to support your claim. I'm looking for some credible explanation of how the US is causing shortages, inflation, lack of investment and black markets as opposed to Venezuela's internal economic policies which are commonly understood to cause shortages, inflation, lack of investment and black markets.

Right now you seem to be working on faith alone.

It's not faith to say that long standing US policies don't magically change for no reason.

Find an example of a nation in the Western hemisphere that tried to break free from the US dominated system that wasn't attacked.


You are providing no examples of policies, just saying they have to be there because I think they are there. We hear about Venezuela a few times a year in the paper.
 
Had Chavez not dismantled the FIEM program implemented to protect the country against volatile oil prices, it would've had ~$223B in a sovereign wealth fund.

The unromantically named Investment Fund for Macroeconomic Stabilization (FIEM in its Spanish acronym), bound Venezuela to a disarmingly simple rule. First, you calculate the average price of a barrel of oil for the preceding five year period. Then, you check the day’s oil price. If the price today is higher than the average for the last five years, take the difference and put it in a savings account. If today’s price is lower than the five-year average, make up the shortfall from the money the savings account. That’s it!

FIEM’s genius was its simplicity: you can explain the gist of it to a moderately bright nine-year-old (in fact there were some operational complications but they don’t affect the headline concept). The system took the two key things everybody already knew about the Venezuelan economy – that it’s wildly dependent on oil revenues, and that oil revenues are volatile – and wove them together into a neat, elegant solution.

Of course, FIEM was a drag for politicians when oil prices were on the rise. As oil revenues started to pour into Venezuelan state coffers the early 2000s following their rock-bottom lows of the late 90s, the incoming Chávez administration couldn’t see the point of it. So under Chávez, FIEM was first ignored, then gutted, and ultimately more or less forgotten. (It was never formally abolished, though, and still exists in undead form, holding a mere $3m.)

...

If Venezuela had just copied Norway’s investment strategy, it would have earned another $82bn in investment income, on top of the $146bn it contributed. The country would have withdrawn a few billion in 2009, when the global financial meltdown caused a brief collapse in oil prices, but even then, it would’ve started 2015 sitting on a mountain of cash: $223bn. More than enough to face up to its financial problems today.

...

So let’s be clear: what Venezuela is going through now has relatively little to do with the vagaries of world oil markets, and everything to do with the the Chávez era destruction of its economic governance institutions. If wasn’t just foreseeable that a fall in oil prices could cause huge economic disruption, it was, in fact, foreseen. And it wasn’t foreseen in some vague, academic sense: the foresight had been baked right into Venezuelan fiscal policy.

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/20...se-has-nothing-to-do-with-falling-oil-prices/
 
No, I want you to provide some plausible evidence to support your claim. I'm looking for some credible explanation of how the US is causing shortages, inflation, lack of investment and black markets as opposed to Venezuela's internal economic policies which are commonly understood to cause shortages, inflation, lack of investment and black markets.

Right now you seem to be working on faith alone.

It's not faith to say that long standing US policies don't magically change for no reason.

Find an example of a nation in the Western hemisphere that tried to break free from the US dominated system that wasn't attacked.

And why isn't hard left Bolivia suffering similar problems? It's inflation rate is 6.5%, it is also resource dependent (has oil and natural gas exports), and is not suffering chronic shortages of basic consumer goods.

Similar with Ecuador, why no riots and chronic shortages?

It's utterly clear that Venezuela's downfall is their own doing. It would've been completely prevented with simple policy changes:

1. Follow the rules of the FIEM program from the day Chavez took office through today
2. Let currency float freely
3. Invest in the oil sector rather than failing to do basic maintenance, utilize strategic public/private partnerships when it makes sense
4. Remove price controls for goods and services

Regardless of any problems caused by their other leftist policies, they pale in comparison to the damage wrought by these four major failings.
 
America attacked Germany in 1917, and again in 1942, so clearly, America has history of aggression against Germany.

Now, Germany is battling a severe measles outbreak.

Ergo, America (and Joe Biden in particular) must be behind the measles outbreak in Germany, even though we don't really know how.

I think that pretty much sums up untermensche's "logic" with regards to US involvement in Venezuela's shortages.
 
Left-leaning Brazil - didn't implement extremist leftist policies based on ignorance of basic economic principles.

What did it achieve?

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