Venezuela's president admits economy has failed

[Jason Harvestdancer]

So we all admit there were many privately owned businesses, many moms and pops too.

Capitalism.

Nationalization of resources is called fairness, not socialism.

Socialism is nationalization of everything.

Some people actually believe that is what happened in Venezuela.

A few things were nationalized.

Like food production so more than the rich could eat.

Sure there were plenty of mom & pop businesses--they simply weren't big enough to keep the country working.

Why are mom-and-pops compatible with socialism everywhere except Venezuela?

 

[dismal]

Well, the good news is Maduro has announced new taxes on businesses and a 3000% minimum wage increase:

In one of the biggest economic overhauls of Maduro's five-year government, the former bus driver and union leader also said he would hike the minimum wage by over 3,000 percent, boost the corporate tax rate, and increase highly-subsidized gas prices in coming weeks.

"I want the country to recover and I have the formula. Trust me," Maduro said in a nighttime speech broadcast on state television.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/18/maduro-orders-96-percent-devaluation-in-venezuela.html

If a 3000% minimum wage increase and new taxes on business doesn't stimulate demand it's hard to imagine what will. Though, frankly, demand for food, medicine and toilet paper seems reasonably strong already.

Unfortunately, in what can only be the result of a CIA plot to discredit socialism (although socialism is not really being tried in Venezuela), many businesses are apparently considering whether to open at all when the policy takes effect

The measures especially spooked shopkeepers already struggling to stay afloat due to hyperinflation, government-set prices for goods ranging from flour to diapers, and strict currency controls that crimp imports. Many stores were closed on Saturday as owners hunkered down to consider the implications.

Economists warned that some companies would go under, unable to shoulder the massive increase in monthly minimum wage from 3 million bolivars to 180 million bolivars, or roughly $0.5 to $30. That will likely increase unemployment and further fuel mass emigration that has overwhelmed neighboring South American countries.

Jhonny Herrera, 41, owner of a hardware store on the windswept Paraguana Peninsula in northern Venezuela, said he would have to fire two employees because he cannot afford to pay them, leaving him with just one worker. When Venezuela was enjoying a decade-long oil bonanza, he had 10 employees.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...y-maduros-latest-economic-moves-idUSKBN1L30N4

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, the good news is Maduro has announced new taxes on businesses and a 3000% minimum wage increase:

In one of the biggest economic overhauls of Maduro's five-year government, the former bus driver and union leader also said he would hike the minimum wage by over 3,000 percent, boost the corporate tax rate, and increase highly-subsidized gas prices in coming weeks.

"I want the country to recover and I have the formula. Trust me," Maduro said in a nighttime speech broadcast on state television.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/18/maduro-orders-96-percent-devaluation-in-venezuela.html

If a 3000% minimum wage increase and new taxes on business doesn't stimulate demand it's hard to imagine what will. Though, frankly, demand for food, medicine and toilet paper seems reasonably strong already.

Unfortunately, in what can only be the result of a CIA plot to discredit socialism (although socialism is not really being tried in Venezuela), many businesses are apparently considering whether to open at all when the policy takes effect

The measures especially spooked shopkeepers already struggling to stay afloat due to hyperinflation, government-set prices for goods ranging from flour to diapers, and strict currency controls that crimp imports. Many stores were closed on Saturday as owners hunkered down to consider the implications.

Economists warned that some companies would go under, unable to shoulder the massive increase in monthly minimum wage from 3 million bolivars to 180 million bolivars, or roughly $0.5 to $30. That will likely increase unemployment and further fuel mass emigration that has overwhelmed neighboring South American countries.

Jhonny Herrera, 41, owner of a hardware store on the windswept Paraguana Peninsula in northern Venezuela, said he would have to fire two employees because he cannot afford to pay them, leaving him with just one worker. When Venezuela was enjoying a decade-long oil bonanza, he had 10 employees.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...y-maduros-latest-economic-moves-idUSKBN1L30N4

When you find yourself in a hole, double down!

 

[angelo]

That is muddled nonsense.

The capitalists in Venezuela didn't by magic disappear because natural resources were nationalized as they should be.

What Chavez did was try to make a capitalist nation responsive to the needs of all citizens.

But capitalists resisted that and did everything they could to prevent it.

Yea, why should some people who've worked their butts off to better themselves live a more opulent lifestyle than those who sit back and expect others to do all the wok! All should live in poverty!

 

[untermensche]

That is muddled nonsense.

The capitalists in Venezuela didn't by magic disappear because natural resources were nationalized as they should be.

What Chavez did was try to make a capitalist nation responsive to the needs of all citizens.

But capitalists resisted that and did everything they could to prevent it.

Yea, why should some people who've worked their butts off to better themselves live a more opulent lifestyle than those who sit back and expect others to do all the wok! All should live in poverty!

The richest people in this world do the least work. They have others slaving for them. Building mansions and yachts for them. Doing all kinds of things they cannot do.

Do you think those Trump moron kids would have risen above a life of manual labor on their own initiative?

Your view of the world is up-side-down.

You worship sloth and despise actual work.

 

[angelo]

That is muddled nonsense.

The capitalists in Venezuela didn't by magic disappear because natural resources were nationalized as they should be.

What Chavez did was try to make a capitalist nation responsive to the needs of all citizens.

But capitalists resisted that and did everything they could to prevent it.

Yea, why should some people who've worked their butts off to better themselves live a more opulent lifestyle than those who sit back and expect others to do all the wok! All should live in poverty!

The richest people in this world do the least work. They have others slaving for them. Building mansions and yachts for them. Doing all kinds of things they cannot do.

Do you think those Trump moron kids would have risen above a life of manual labor on their own initiative?

Your view of the world is up-side-down.

You worship sloth and despise actual work.

My view of the world is skewed!

 

[angelo]

That is muddled nonsense.

The capitalists in Venezuela didn't by magic disappear because natural resources were nationalized as they should be.

What Chavez did was try to make a capitalist nation responsive to the needs of all citizens.

But capitalists resisted that and did everything they could to prevent it.

Yea, why should some people who've worked their butts off to better themselves live a more opulent lifestyle than those who sit back and expect others to do all the wok! All should live in poverty!

The richest people in this world do the least work. They have others slaving for them. Building mansions and yachts for them. Doing all kinds of things they cannot do.

Do you think those Trump moron kids would have risen above a life of manual labor on their own initiative?

Your view of the world is up-side-down.

You worship sloth and despise actual work.

You must have discovered the secret of getting unlimited wealth by fishing in a wishing well or something. Self made millionaires should be despised according to your philosophy. To hell with them employing all those people or taking all those risks to get to where they are.

They should not have bothered and seek government welfare instead. Of course the governments would get all the money they need from pixie dust, or better still, print money as Maduro is doing in Venezuela.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The richest people in this world do the least work. They have others slaving for them. Building mansions and yachts for them. Doing all kinds of things they cannot do.

Do you think those Trump moron kids would have risen above a life of manual labor on their own initiative?

Your view of the world is up-side-down.

You worship sloth and despise actual work.

You don't understand that mental effort is still work--and usually pays far better than physical effort.

 

[untermensche]

The richest people in this world do the least work. They have others slaving for them. Building mansions and yachts for them. Doing all kinds of things they cannot do.

Do you think those Trump moron kids would have risen above a life of manual labor on their own initiative?

Your view of the world is up-side-down.

You worship sloth and despise actual work.

You must have discovered the secret of getting unlimited wealth by fishing in a wishing well or something. Self made millionaires should be despised according to your philosophy.....

Some of them should.

To hell with them employing all those people or taking all those risks to get to where they are.

The average working man takes a huge risk by working for anybody.

How they are repaid for that risk is they are stolen from.

Top-down dictatorial schemes exist so those that control them can steal from all other workers.

One way to pay workers in no relation to what they produce is to pay a market wage.

Another way of saying lowest possible wage.

They should not have bothered and seek government welfare instead.

A lot of them are getting the real government welfare.

When you look at which companies survive and which don't the companies that attach themselves to the government and allow the government to assume some of their risk are the companies that survive.

 

[angelo]

I mentioned before that your " Utopia " of the Soviet Union collapsed many tears ago, not long after the Berlin wall came crashing down on another socialist utopia of East Germany!

 

[untermensche]

You said that stupidity already. I know.

I am opposed to top-down dictatorial structures.

Like the structures inherent to present-day capitalism.

I prefer democracy over dictatorship.

But some prefer dictatorial structures.

They have no sense of morality.

 

[angelo]

It seems that democracy to you means all of the people all of the time living equally in poverty!

 

[untermensche]

The Anarchists in Spain had more productive factories than the capitalists. They had innovation.

They did not live an inferior life materially.

In terms of human freedom and dignity they were miles ahead of those stuck in the mentality of the dictator.

That primitive human mentality that must be overcome to have any real freedom.

The rat race to enrich the dictators is not freedom.

 

[dismal]

You said that stupidity already. I know.

I am opposed to top-down dictatorial structures.

And yet you are always and everywhere an advocate of force to prevent people simply doing what they want to do. You always advocate government force over voluntary interaction.

The government setting prices is force. The government setting wages is force. The government setting exchange rates is force. The government nationalizing businesses is force. It is the opposite of freedom. Freedom is when you can associate with whom you please and transact with them on mutually agreeable terms. When you can own the fruits of your labor and your ingenuity.

Venezuela has shown the destructive force a government can unleash by doing these things and you are still blind to it. You are blind to the human misery and destruction that your beliefs inevitably cause.

My wish would be that people like you would have to live in the places you defend. That you would be heading in to take the place of the starving refugees heading out.

 

[untermensche]

There is nothing voluntary about the current system.

Few have any choice. They either submit to the whims of some dictator or go without anything.

Some confuse submission with a free choice.

The people who chose the current system chose it because they wanted to dominate others and steal from them.

It is a sick immorality the very lost call freedom.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

There is nothing voluntary about the current system.

Few have any choice. They either submit to the whims of some dictator or go without anything.

Some confuse submission with a free choice.

The people who chose the current system chose it because they wanted to dominate others and steal from them.

It is a sick immorality the very lost call freedom.

But it's lost freedom where you can eat, as opposed to the Venezuelan system where you have lost freedom and you're also starving and shit.

 

[blastula]

Not to mention the ultimate betrayal of America of all time in apologizing to little more than terrorist for perceived mistaken American past policies. Bowing to the mullahs of these rogue states was the ultimate cringe worthy act of any American president in history.

At least Obama didn't curtsy.

Or go on a date.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Anarchists in Spain had more productive factories than the capitalists. They had innovation.

They did not live an inferior life materially.

In terms of human freedom and dignity they were miles ahead of those stuck in the mentality of the dictator.

That primitive human mentality that must be overcome to have any real freedom.

The rat race to enrich the dictators is not freedom.

When you steal your means of production things will look good for a while.

 

[untermensche]

The Anarchists in Spain had more productive factories than the capitalists. They had innovation.

They did not live an inferior life materially.

In terms of human freedom and dignity they were miles ahead of those stuck in the mentality of the dictator.

That primitive human mentality that must be overcome to have any real freedom.

The rat race to enrich the dictators is not freedom.

When you steal your means of production things will look good for a while.

In capitalism the equipment is paid for by stealing from workers.

The workers already bought the equipment.

Your love of and excuses for dictatorship is noted once again however.

As long as it is the good dictators stealing from workers you are just fine with it.

People like you used to sing praises to the King and claimed we could do nothing without the King or without stealing from the King.

Your kind is always about 200 years behind the times.

You couldn't be expected to see the future. You can't see the present.

 

[dismal]

There is nothing voluntary about the current system.

Few have any choice. They either submit to the whims of some dictator or go without anything.

Some confuse submission with a free choice.

The people who chose the current system chose it because they wanted to dominate others and steal from them.

It is a sick immorality the very lost call freedom.

But it's lost freedom where you can eat, as opposed to the Venezuelan system where you have lost freedom and you're also starving and shit.

You shouldn't even grant him the validity of his delusions. My employer and I have a mutually voluntary relationship. If they can't continue to make me happy I will leave -- as I have done with several past employers.

I am the ultimate dictator who gets to decide where my labor goes. Many people actually go out into the real world and experience this phenomenon. One must be extremely resistant to reality to believe otherwise.