Violent riots underway in Kenosha, WI

[Testy Calibrate]

There is a new video, from the other side of the car, that apparently shows St. Jacob struggling with officers before breaking free and going for the car door.

However, the video is quite shaky and not very clear.

In other news, violent rioters have damaged 5th precinct building in Atlanta as well.
BREAKING: Police break up crowd of protesters after damage reported near Woodruff Park
I stand by my view that the only way forward is to arrest and prosecute all rioters.

Of course you do. If the only tool you have is a gun, everything looks like a target.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

I don’t think anyone is concerned that ricochet from the bullets would fly back and harm the police officer.

Quite the contrary. You people want to see more dead cops!

There were three young children in that ‘dangerous weapon’ any on whom could have been struck by a bullet or pieces of the car.

The kids were in the back, and Blake was shot with bullets flying forward, so any ricocheted fragments would have to travel essentially backwards to hit the kids.
And if Blake is such a great father, why didn't he think of their safety when he decided to resist and reach inside the car? Why didn't he surrender for their sake?

at this point, I don't care as much about the cops as I do about their victims but that doesn't mean killing them is a good policy position yet.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Yea, we need more non-lethal techniques of bringing someone down rather than resorting to guns.

They already tried the taser. And if he really had a knife, that would explain why they did not try to tackle him.

Instead of finding fault with the police, how about criticizing the behavior of Jacob Blake. Or do you think that because he is black he can do whatever he wants, and police are at fault if they don't let him be? For example, do you think police should have let him escape to avoid rioting?

if it's a straight up balance equation, then it's a tougher call. If you can just reflexively take the cops' side then the aftermath is irrelevant i guess.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Since violent protests seem to follow police shootings(or kneeling on someone's neck until they die), what play would a Wednesday evening quarterback call which might reduce violent protests?

My solution would be to arrest and prosecute the rioters to the full extent of the law, contrary to what fauxgressive prosecutors like Mike Schmidt are doing.

I guess your "solution" would be to give in to violent thugs and stop using lethal force against black people no matter the circumstances even if it leads to more dead cops (an outcome Jarhyn for example has explicitly said he supports). Giving in to terrorists is never a good idea!

Just remember that the rioters and the protesters have little overlap. We keep seeing evidence that the violent ones are the white nationalist types, not the BLM types.

But they show up and engage in violence because the blm protesters offend them so really it is the blm protesters who are at fault

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Except we now know that Jacob Blake was armed with a knife.

DOJ identifies officer who shot Jacob Blake as Rusten Sheskey; says Blake had knife



So let's stop with the "unarmed" nonsense, ok.

By the way, I saw this too:

Bond set at $1 million for man accused of trying to kill Kenosha police officer

Basically, a few weeks ago a car thief shot and injured a Kenosha police officer who then returned fire. The perp was apprehended days later in Indiana.


His court date is set for today according to that article, but I have not found anything about the outcome. I did find an article giving more information about the shooting, as well as stating that the perp was aided in his escape by several people.

Several people alleged to have helped man flee after Kenosha Police officer shot

Jonathan Massey, 29, is being held on $1 million bond, charged with attempted first-degree intentional homicide in the Aug. 8 shooting of Kenosha Police Officer Justin Pruett.
[...]
According to the criminal complaint, in an encounter partially captured on squad video, Massey is alleged to have shot Pruett in the abdomen after the officer deployed a Taser. Pruett then returned fire, striking Massey as he fled.

This is the reality of police work in this country.
'
About the accomplices:

According to court documents, several people were with Massey when the shooting occurred, and several helped him flee to Indiana.
Travinna Williams, 30, of Kenosha, is alleged to have driven Massey to a gas station in Harvey, Ill. where he was picked up by a man in a pickup truck. She was charged with harboring a felon and is being held on $50,000 bond.
[...]
Three women — Ebony Hughes, 27, and Shydaria Role, 23, both of Kenosha, and Desiree Brown, 26, of Racine — were each charged Tuesday with aiding a felon for their roles in allegedly helping Massey after the shooting. Brown and Hughes are alleged to have been among the people who witnessed the shooting.
According to statements in court, additional charges may be pending against others who allegedly aided Massey when he fled the area.

I bet there are some on here that fully support the actions of these people.

it's got to be hard to be hated just for being a nazi

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Of course rioters riot. Nobody is clutching pearls of trying to fool anybody. But rioters should be held criminally and civilly accountable for the damage they are causing.


Giving in to the demands of the rioters is basically appeasing terrorists. Rioters engage in violence and intimidation in order to achieve political aims, so they are by definition terrorists.

or accept deliberate police massacres. Because the only way to stop a riot from leading to injury and destruction of property is either to massacre the participants;

I do not think killing them all is necessary. Arresting and prosecuting them would suffice. Although, if killing rioters and continued lawlessness like we've had to endure since May are our only options, I know which one is preferable.
View attachment 29103
But again, I do not think that is necessary. We need strong law enforcement response, which must include DAs not taking the side of rioters like the Idiot of Multnomah County does.
Stronger federal presence would also be very helpful. FBI went after Black Panthers, BLM and Weather Underground in the 70s and we need a similar kind of response today. Perhaps we even need a revival of COINTELPRO.

You might start to help with the latter by refraining from using riots as an opportunity to dehumanise those involved.

Yeah, they have already done plenty to dehumanize themselves.

They're not acting like animals,

I am sorry, you are right with that first one. They act worse than any animal I have ever seen.
In blow for social justice, leftist mob topples Kenosha’s dinosaur statue

They are not animals, they are pond scum!

they're acting like humans who are powerless and oppressed have ALWAYS acted.

They are not "oppressed". They are just extremists.
View attachment 29104

cointelpro never really ended. See: leaked police database

 

[Testy Calibrate]

they're acting like humans who are powerless and oppressed have ALWAYS acted.

They are not "oppressed". They are just extremists.
View attachment 29104

Did you research this quote?

I did.

Want to know what I found out?

Show

She was speaking about herself and one other person, not about the entirety of the #BLM movement.

Also, being a Marxist doesn't make one an extremist, and it doesn't mean one isn't oppressed.

I give this one a D+. It's an improvement over your usual meme standards but still a pretty poor effort.

if being a Marxist means having read the pedagogy of the oppressed (Freire) and seeing its truth, then i suppose i am a marxist too. But the right does not seem to want to make the bogeyman specific since that would obviously make it look foolish as a bogeyman and the right look foolish for using it.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

If you really cannot understand that there is a whole range of possible outcomes between "shoot an unarmed man in the back" and "let him go", then even minimally intelligent discussion is impossible.

Yeah, the cops tried those things. If after the cops try those things you reach into your car ....

Poor cops, they couldn't restrain him physically, and they were so scared for their lives that they preemptively shot him seven times in the back just to make sure he didn't hurt them. Real-life American heroes keeping us safe from dangerous criminals armed with cars.

armed with cars maybe at some future point. You can never be too safe

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Two of your sources are Faux, they have repeatedly been caught pretending it's BLM doing violence even when the facts say otherwise. The only non-Faux source you give only says "rioters", it doesn't identify them as BLM.

Who do you think they are? BLMers are the ones who have the motive to, to quote Michael Brown's mother's boyfriend, "burn this bitch down". There is no evidence that it is white supremacists or Boogaloos or anybody like that.

I live in Portland and have been to quite a few of the protests. Almost all the violence has originated in white nationalist groups and anarcbist groups. The other 30,000 people present were non violent but got pepper sprayed and tear gassed anyway. The proud boys have been allowed to leave.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

She was speaking about herself and one other person, not about the entirety of the #BLM movement.

She was speaking about two people who FOUNDED the #BLM movement. Not two rank and file #BLMers.

Also, being a Marxist doesn't make one an extremist, and it doesn't mean one isn't oppressed.

Marxism is an extremist ideology. As to the second, sure, the two are not mutually exclusive, but their ideology offers an alternative motivation for their destructive behavior.

Marxism is extremist ideology? Can you please define marxism?

 

[Testy Calibrate]

What do you think Black Lives Matter means? What sentiment do you think the people who say that phrase are expressing?

LMAO.

What do you think “defund the police, all cops are bad” means ? What sentiment do you think the people who say that phrase are expressing?

that the cops are systemically broken for a democracy and they need to be changed by any means necessary?

 

[Testy Calibrate]

You were implying she was referring to people in the Black Lives Matter movement in general.

I gave you a D+ because at least the quote wasn't mangled, misattributed, or said by a character in a book she wrote. But that meme is misleading, and you used it to mislead others.

Also:who the fuck cares? What is a "trained marxist" anyway? Oh noes, someone believes that there's another system of governance that's better than the shitshow we got? Cuz at this point, it might be worth giving it a try.

but negotiation and compromise and actually listening are for cucks

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Are you unable to say what the phrase Black Lives Matter means and what the people who say it are expressing, or simply unwilling?

Now do All Lives Matter.

all jobs matter

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Are you asking TSwizzle?

If he's like Mike Pence and Loren, he'll say All Lives Matter but absolutely refuse to acknowledge that Black Lives Matter, even though it's impossible for all lives to matter if black lives don't.

Do Black Lives Matter, Trausti?

All lives matter. Let’s stop with the Marxist group identity garbage.

all jobs matter.

 

[Elixir]

You people want to see more dead cops!

That's disgusting, even for you. You must want to see more dead black protesters, and you are projecting your perverted desire on others.
I want to see fewer people killed with guns by cops, vigilantes and other criminals.

any ricocheted fragments would have to travel essentially backwards

Gee, THAT never happens! Neither does flying debris. How moronic.
Part of the problem with all these guns is that people don't know how to use them or what actually happens - or can happen - when they pull the trigger.

all jobs matter.

'specially blow jobs. Right, Derec?

 

[Arctish]

If Jacob Blake was white, would the national media give a shit?

Yes.

Would you?

Bullshit. Plenty of unarmed white guys shot by police; at best local media does a story.

List the recent ones. Say, every shooting of an unarmed white guy you can find during the past 5 years. Then we'll see if the same police forces shot unarmed black guys during the same time period and do a comparison. Or, if you'd rather not focus on specific cases, then show the studies or statistical analysis that supports your claim.

That article in Nature I quoted has a list of studies indicating unarmed blacks are shot much more frequently than unarmed whites. If that's true then we should expect the media to report the shooting of an unarmed black man much more often than the shooting of an unarmed white man.

Or, to put it another way:

Incident A gets a lot of media coverage because consumers of media have a strong interest in it.

Statistical analysis indicates Incident A happens to blacks twice as often as it does to whites.

Therefore, the infrequency of media reports of Incident A happening to whites compared to the frequency of media reports of Incident A happening to blacks, does not indicate media bias against whites. It only indicates the comparative frequency of Incident A for both groups.

 

[Elixir]

Bullshit. Plenty of unarmed white guys shot by police; at best local media does a story.

List some of the recent ones.

Then we'll see if the same police forces shot unarmed black guys during the same time period and do a comparison.

Well I heard that down in Mayberry, Deputy Barney Fife shot Otis in the little toe while cleaning his gun. Coulda been a black guy and if would have made front page news! Oh, right - no black guys in Mayberry. Never mind.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The more we see on this the more it looks justified. This is a guy who had demonstrated that he was going to resist arrest with force.

How did Mr. Blake demonstrate that? By trying to leave, and even with an alleged weapon in his hand, he turns to get into a car. It takes a lot of willful disregard of reality to come up with your analysis.

Should Mr. Blake have been stopped from leaving? Yes.

Was shooting him in the back while he posed no immediate threat to anyone the only way to stop him from leaving? I don't think so.

He already had resisted with force.

 

[laughing dog]

The more we see on this the more it looks justified. This is a guy who had demonstrated that he was going to resist arrest with force.

How did Mr. Blake demonstrate that? By trying to leave, and even with an alleged weapon in his hand, he turns to get into a car. It takes a lot of willful disregard of reality to come up with your analysis.

Should Mr. Blake have been stopped from leaving? Yes.

Was shooting him in the back while he posed no immediate threat to anyone the only way to stop him from leaving? I don't think so.

He already had resisted with force.

Allegedly. But more importantly, when he was shot, he was not. Try again.

 

[atrib]

Where is the evidence that he was brandishing a knife at the police? Where is the evidence that he attempted to stab an officer?

Quit moving the goalposts.

I'm moving the goalposts? You started with "he might get a gun from his car and shoot all the police dead". Then it turned into: "he might get in the car and run over all the police officers". Now it has become: "he may be holding a knife close to his body, but it could also be sunglasses. Anyway, he might use this knife/something else to slice the police officers to ribbons". What next: "he might grab a beanie baby from one of his kids and throw it at the police officers, thereby putting them at risk for a fatal concussion"?

I never said he tried to stab the police--I see no indication he did. I said we have a photo with the knife in his hand. It's close to his body, he's not going after anyone with it.

I have seen the same photo, and it doesn't look like a knife to me. So you are making this up.

He's basically playing porcupine here but then he went for his car. To escape, to run over officers with, or because it held a better weapon? The officers have no way to know, they do know they're trying to serve a felony warrant on someone engaged in armed resistance, there's no reason to bet their lives on his plan being to escape. (And allowing him to escape with kids in the car is a bad idea anyway.)

Exactly. The officers have no way to know. They are just guessing. Therefore, shooting him in the back seven times while he is walking away from them, based on the mere presumption that he may turn around and try to hurt them at a future time is premature. There is man's life at stake, and taking that life based on a mere presumption is wrong. That is my point. Allowing a suspect to walk or drive away from a confrontation is a better option than taking his life prematurely. That is my point. The police know who he is, and if they are physically unable to restrain him at the scene, they can always get reinforcements and arrest him later. Yes, that involves more work, but the police should not be in the business of taking human lives just because it makes their job easier. That is the point you don't appear to understand.