Violent riots underway in Kenosha, WI

[Jarhyn]

Poor cops, they couldn't restrain him physically, and they were so scared for their lives that they preemptively shot him seven times in the back just to make sure he didn't hurt them. Real-life American heroes keeping us safe from dangerous criminals armed with cars.

Trying to restrain him physically was just asking for getting stabbed with that knife.

Where is the evidence that he was brandishing a knife at the police? Where is the evidence that he attempted to stab an officer?

My prediction here is that he's going to close the circle on his logic (the evidence is that police shot him!), or pull a Derec (speculate on what "might have" happened rather than looking at what actually happened), or point at some irrelevance like trying to interpret someone scratching their nuts or stowing their hand in their pants as the existence of a weapon.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Poor cops, they couldn't restrain him physically, and they were so scared for their lives that they preemptively shot him seven times in the back just to make sure he didn't hurt them. Real-life American heroes keeping us safe from dangerous criminals armed with cars.

Trying to restrain him physically was just asking for getting stabbed with that knife.

Where is the evidence that he was brandishing a knife at the police? Where is the evidence that he attempted to stab an officer?

Quit moving the goalposts.

I never said he tried to stab the police--I see no indication he did. I said we have a photo with the knife in his hand. It's close to his body, he's not going after anyone with it.

He's basically playing porcupine here but then he went for his car. To escape, to run over officers with, or because it held a better weapon? The officers have no way to know, they do know they're trying to serve a felony warrant on someone engaged in armed resistance, there's no reason to bet their lives on his plan being to escape. (And allowing him to escape with kids in the car is a bad idea anyway.)

 

[J842P]

He can protect himself. He can protect his property. He cannot protect someone else's property and to be judge, jury, and executioner. The Supreme Court decided to disregard that "well regulated" part of the second amendment and now all we're left with is vigilantism.

He isn't being "judge jury and executioner". He didn't just shoot people looting. He was running away from two guys, one of which discharged a handgun, and then shot Rosenbaum when Rosenbaum lunged at him, grabbing his gun (which apparently happened more than once). This is on video. This is pretty clear-cut self-defense. You wouldn't even have to claim stand-your-ground, which I don't believe Wisconsin even has.

 

[ruby sparks]

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...arched-within-their-own-cities-301079234.html

Ok so first, although I knew there were commonly white protesters, I guess I did not realise that quite so high a proportion of BLM protesters were white.

And second, I had certainly gained the impression that most of the trouble was coming from angry black protesters. Or is that mostly looting and fires and physical assaults, but not necessarily incidents involving the firing of weapons?

 

[TSwizzle]

Ok so first, although I knew there were commonly white protesters, I guess I did not realise that quite so high a proportion of BLM protesters were white.

And second, I had certainly gained the impression that most of the trouble was coming from angry black protesters. Or is that mostly looting and fires and physical assaults, but not necessarily incidents involving the firing of weapons?

Since you are not living in the USA I suppose you could be forgiven for thinking that but it's still a bit odd you would think that. You just need to watch the TV coverage here and it's quite obvious who attends these things.

 

[Arctish]

Where is the evidence that he was brandishing a knife at the police? Where is the evidence that he attempted to stab an officer?

Quit moving the goalposts.

I never said he tried to stab the police--I see no indication he did. I said we have a photo with the knife in his hand. It's close to his body, he's not going after anyone with it.

He's basically playing porcupine here but then he went for his car. To escape, to run over officers with, or because it held a better weapon? The officers have no way to know, they do know they're trying to serve a felony warrant on someone engaged in armed resistance, there's no reason to bet their lives on his plan being to escape. (And allowing him to escape with kids in the car is a bad idea anyway.)

We have a photo of Blake holding something in his hand as he walks to his car.

Someone said it looks like a knife. Others said it looks like a transponder equipped car key. The cops haven't said what it was. But that random guy on the internet had you at "knife", didn't he? And now you are building your entire argument on a 'fact' not in evidence.

We don't know what he had in his hand. If it was a knife, it's a wonder the second cop didn't try to tase Blake when the first cop's attempt failed. It's an even bigger wonder why they weren't both shouting "Drop the knife!" the entire time Blake was walking to his car. And it's truly remarkable that no one in the entire Kenosha Police department of the State AG's office has mentioned a knife being in Blake's hand when he was shot, especially considering all this outcry and rioting.

You'd think they'd want people to know the shooting may have been justified.

 

[ruby sparks]

Ok so first, although I knew there were commonly white protesters, I guess I did not realise that quite so high a proportion of BLM protesters were white.

And second, I had certainly gained the impression that most of the trouble was coming from angry black protesters. Or is that mostly looting and fires and physical assaults, but not necessarily incidents involving the firing of weapons?

Since you are not living in the USA I suppose you could be forgiven for thinking that but it's still a bit odd you would think that. You just need to watch the TV coverage here and it's quite obvious who attends these things.

Perhaps I just assumed it would be mostly black people protesting and confirmation bias gave me a false impression. Here, it would be as if, during the civil rights (for catholics) protests, most of the protesters were protestants (who were the majority population generally at the time). That did not happen.

I don't get US tv coverage. I actually don't even have a tv now. I check the North America section of the BBC News online, or I see what's posted here. I suppose it's possible the former emphasises the black presence. I'll take note from now on.

What's up next, mostly men at women's rights marches?

 

[ruby sparks]

View attachment 29138

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...arched-within-their-own-cities-301079234.html

Ok so first, although I knew there were commonly white protesters, I guess I did not realise that quite so high a proportion of BLM protesters were white.

And second, I had certainly gained the impression that most of the trouble was coming from angry black protesters. Or is that mostly looting and fires and physical assaults, but not necessarily incidents involving the firing of weapons?

Are those figures for white people actually higher than the percentages of white people in those places overall?

So, 85% white BLM protesters for Minneapolis, which I read has a white population of 63.7%. So are whites not just the majority, but over-represented in BLM protests?

 

[laughing dog]

Where is the evidence that he was brandishing a knife at the police? Where is the evidence that he attempted to stab an officer?

Quit moving the goalposts.

I never said he tried to stab the police--I see no indication he did. I said we have a photo with the knife in his hand. It's close to his body, he's not going after anyone with it.

He's basically playing porcupine here but then he went for his car. To escape, to run over officers with, or because it held a better weapon? The officers have no way to know, they do know they're trying to serve a felony warrant on someone engaged in armed resistance, there's no reason to bet their lives on his plan being to escape. (And allowing him to escape with kids in the car is a bad idea anyway.)

You wrote "Trying to restrain him physically was just asking for getting stabbed with that knife." not me. If the officer was "asking to get stabbed" then it is reasonable to ask if there was any indication that his request was granted. Especially since the actual victim was getting into his car. Contrary to your claim - there was no armed resistance.

In simple terms, the victim's actions are inconsistent with putting anyone in actual danger, hence his shooting was uncalled for. The defense of "the police had no idea what was going to do, so the shooting was justified" is fucking ridiculous.

 

[ruby sparks]

Even if he wasn't carrying the knife, he appeared to reach into the driver's front of car, and a knife was found in the driver's front of the car, according to police, as I understand it. I know he wasn't threatening the police with it at that point (or at all). He just, very very unwisely, reached into his car while two police had guns trained on him asking him to stop.

 

[ZiprHead]

Rittenhouse Shooting split to here: https://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?22135-Rittenhouse-Kenosha-Shooting-Split&p=823494&viewfull=1#post823494

 

[Trausti]

Statement from police association - https://webcache.googleusercontent....ust-28-2020-PS.docx+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[Trausti]

If Jacob Blake was white, would the national media give a shit?

 

[Arctish]

If Jacob Blake was white, would the national media give a shit?

Yes.

Would you?

 

[Derec]

Are those figures for white people actually higher than the percentages of white people in those places overall?

So, 85% white BLM protesters for Minneapolis, which I read has a white population of 63.7%. So are whites not just the majority, but over-represented in BLM protests?

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and call shenanigans on those there graphs. I live in Atlanta, have watched footage of the protests and riots and while there were a lot of white people there, the majority of the protesters were black.

Note also that the city is about half black , although the whole metro area is about 1/3 black (City of Atlanta itself has only about half a million people while the metro area is 10x that). So Atlanta is easily the "blackest" of the cities in that graph, and they still estimate 3/4 of #BLM protesters to be white, contrary to all the coverage of the protests. Not credible in the least.

Still, it is true that a lot of #BLM supporters are white. Which is why it is so idiotic for people to claim that if a white person commits an act of violence or arson etc., they must be a Proud Boi or "white supremacist or something. Natalie Wood did not burn down the Wendy's as some sort of false flag operation. She burned it down because she was upset that her boyfriend was shot.

 

[Derec]

If Jacob Blake was white, would the national media give a shit?

Yes.

LMAO, no way. He'd be seen rightly as yet another loser who brought it on himself and Anderson Cooper et al would not pay him a second glance. And that's what should have happened with Jacob Blake.

 

[Arctish]

If Jacob Blake was white, would the national media give a shit?

Yes.

LMAO, no way. He'd be seen rightly as yet another loser who brought it on himself and Anderson Cooper et al would not pay him a second glance. And that's what should have happened with Jacob Blake.

You mean like how the national media never mentioned Daniel Shaver, who brought that shooting on himself by pointing a pellet gun out a window and then not following the instructions of the cop pointing a gun at him?

 

[Derec]

We have a photo of Blake holding something in his hand as he walks to his car.

Someone said it looks like a knife. Others said it looks like a transponder equipped car key. The cops haven't said what it was.

Police union has.

The union representing police officers in Kenosha, Wis., have provided to NPR what they say is a detailed account of the moments leading up to the shooting of Jacob Blake, who was severely wounded by a police officer Sunday. That account says Blake was armed with a knife and "forcefully fought" with the officers who tried to arrest him, putting one of them in a headlock.

Police Union In Kenosha, Wis., Provides Account Of Jacob Blake Shooting

We don't know what he had in his hand. If it was a knife, it's a wonder the second cop didn't try to tase Blake when the first cop's attempt failed.

Actually, two officers attempted to tase Blake.

The statement from the Kenosha Professional Police Association also says officers twice shot Tasers at Blake but these failed to subdue him.

It's an even bigger wonder why they weren't both shouting "Drop the knife!" the entire time Blake was walking to his car.

Funny you should say that!

Video taken by onlookers shows something in Blake’s hand but it is grainy and difficult to make out. The man who made the widely shared cellphone video of the shooting said he heard officers yell, “Drop the knife! Drop the knife!” but he said he didn’t see a knife in Blake’s hands.

And there is more about the union statement.

In a full-throated defense of the officers' conduct, union attorney Brendan Matthews said Blake refused to follow commands and violently resisted, despite being tasered twice, and at one point put an officer in a headlock.
"The officers first saw him holding the knife while they were on the passenger side of the vehicle," he said.
It is unclear from Matthews' statement when the knife would have been drawn by Blake, before or after the fight on the ground.

New details in Kenosha shootings: Jacob Blake tasered twice; Rittenhouse attorney says he did not transport gun
So yeah, according to the police he did have a knife, and the guy who shot the video confirms that they were yelling for him to drop it.

And it's truly remarkable that no one in the entire Kenosha Police department of the State AG's office has mentioned a knife being in Blake's hand when he was shot, especially considering all this outcry and rioting.

Except they have. Which is why it is prudent for the facts to be in and not be swayed by erroneous early reporting like Tony Evers, Kamala Harris, Joe Biden and most of the media have been.

You'd think they'd want people to know the shooting may have been justified.

The rioters do not want to listen anyway. They take any excuse, such as a murderer killing himself.

 

[Derec]

You mean like how the national media never mentioned Daniel Shaver, who brought that shooting on himself by pointing a pellet gun out a window and then not following the instructions of the cop pointing a gun at him?

Compare that coverage to the amount of coverage Blake is getting. And Blake did not even die. Nor did Shaver have felony warrants.
So the cases are not exactly comparable. Also, Shaver is just about the only case of a white guy who got any media coverage in recent years. Compare to several black guys this year alone.

 

[Derec]

And second, I had certainly gained the impression that most of the trouble was coming from angry black protesters. Or is that mostly looting and fires and physical assaults, but not necessarily incidents involving the firing of weapons?

After Rayshard Brooks was killed in Atlanta and the Wendy's was burned down by his girlfriend (admittedly white) a bunch of black "protesters" with long guns have began occupying the streets around the former Wendy's (University Ave. and Pryor St.). Our mayor allowed that to continue until an 8 year old girl was murdered by one of them. So, it is false to say that firearms and rifles are associated just with white people.