Virgin birth of Jesus

[Malintent]

ummm.. adultery was punishable by death. when a woman becomes pregnant and the baby is not the husbands (or the woman is --GASP--- UNMARRIED!!) there will be blood shed.

That not plain enough to see why claims of 'virgin birth' ever existed? seems simple and obvious to me.

 

[Eric H]

ummm.. adultery was punishable by death. when a woman becomes pregnant and the baby is not the husbands (or the woman is --GASP--- UNMARRIED!!) there will be blood shed.

That not plain enough to see why claims of 'virgin birth' ever existed? seems simple and obvious to me.

We have faith that the virgin birth of Jesus happened, because we have faith that God created the universe and life in the beginning. All the miracles of Jesus, are very small in comparison to the creation of the universe and life.

 

[Juma]

ummm.. adultery was punishable by death. when a woman becomes pregnant and the baby is not the husbands (or the woman is --GASP--- UNMARRIED!!) there will be blood shed.

That not plain enough to see why claims of 'virgin birth' ever existed? seems simple and obvious to me.

We have faith that the virgin birth of Jesus happened, because we have faith that God created the universe and life in the beginning. All the miracles of Jesus, are very small in comparison to the creation of the universe and life.

Yeah. Faith.. but how do you decide what you believe in? If I tell you there is an elephant in my cupboatd would you have faith in that too?

 

[bilby]

ummm.. adultery was punishable by death. when a woman becomes pregnant and the baby is not the husbands (or the woman is --GASP--- UNMARRIED!!) there will be blood shed.

That not plain enough to see why claims of 'virgin birth' ever existed? seems simple and obvious to me.

We have faith that the virgin birth of Jesus happened, because we have faith that God created the universe and life in the beginning. All the miracles of Jesus, are very small in comparison to the creation of the universe and life.

If only you had spent some effort on finding out facts - stuff for which faith is unnecessary, because it's true whether or not you believe - you might know that causing a virgin to become pregnant is incredibly easy, while creating something from nothing breaches the First Law of Thermodynamics, and is therefore sufficiently difficult to qualify as 'impossible'.

And the two feats are completely unrelated. The ability to do one says exactly nothing about the ability to do the other.

You seem to be far more in awe of the idea of raw power than the idea merits; power without direction is useless - and the power to do one thing doesn't imply the power do do anything else.

 

[DrZoidberg]

ummm.. adultery was punishable by death. when a woman becomes pregnant and the baby is not the husbands (or the woman is --GASP--- UNMARRIED!!) there will be blood shed.

That not plain enough to see why claims of 'virgin birth' ever existed? seems simple and obvious to me.

We have faith that the virgin birth of Jesus happened, because we have faith that God created the universe and life in the beginning. All the miracles of Jesus, are very small in comparison to the creation of the universe and life.

Wait, what? Do Christians actually believe Mary wasn't just unfaithful to Joseph? This is news to me. I thought it was just one of those things that was official but nobody took seriously.

 

[Lion IRC]

You don't need 'faith' to understand that an ALL powerful being is able to to do stuff which we find miraculous.

Move along people. Nothing to see here.

Go back to your boring old schtick about the hypothesis that God doesn't exist.

But please don't be quibbling over whether or not one miracle is more or less likely than any of the other ones reported.

 

[DrZoidberg]

You don't need 'faith' to understand that an ALL powerful being is able to to do stuff which we find miraculous.

Move along people. Nothing to see here.

Go back to your boring old schtick about the hypothesis that God doesn't exist.

But please don't be quibbling over whether or not one miracle is more or less likely than any of the other ones reported.

Why invoke a miracle at all? The simplest explanation is that she just wan't a virgin. If we just agree on that there's no need to bend over backwards to explain stuff. That's all a miracle is. It's just us not understanding how something happened, which may or may now have happened by magic. Given that it's odd that Mary got pregnant without having had sex with some bloke, just leaves a mystery. Not a miracle.

Until that mystery is solved, why not fall back on the most likely explanation = not a virgin

BTW, the virgin birth is only mentioned in Matthew and Luke. So not likely an original story. You know what they say away late additions to stories?

 

[Learner]

Using previous post;

It seems todays scientists claiming humans can have babies (Virgin births)without one of the parents, depending on the group who are experimenting without the mother or another group experimenting without the father having any involvement. (What more with an All Mighty creator ? )

There have been quite a few claims and the recent one of these claims is below. Artificial sperm ".

Radical: Chinese scientists claim the discovery could provide hope for infertile men

Scientists in the UK praised the "mammoth" achievement of their Chinese colleagues but said there were still many obstacles to be overcome before sperm-like cells grown in the laboratory could be of use to infertile men.

Professor Richard Sharpe, from the Medical Research Council Centre for Reproductive Health at the University of Edinburgh, said safety was a major issue.

"Bear in mind that if germ cells do not format their DNA correctly, it may not only affect the resulting individual but might also affect the next generation," he pointed out.

In spite of these encouraging results, we are still some way from immediately applying this technique as a potential cure for human male infertility," he continued. (What a great idea !? )

"It remains to be seen if this technique could be applied in humans to create sperm-like cells that might be usable in IVF."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/scientists-claim-can-create-babies-7441572

Abominations against the will of God .

 

[Lion IRC]

Abrahams wife Sarah got pregnant by a miracle also.
Someone should start a separate thread about her conception/pregnancy as well.

Oh yeah, and Samson's mother.

And Hannah.

And Rebekah.

 

[James Brown]

And Marduk.

And Sennacherib.

And Buddha.

And Qi, the Abandoned One.

And Horus.

Oh yeah, and Perseus.

And Muhammed.

It would seem that miraculous births are almost common-place.

 Miraculous_births

 

[Lion IRC]

It's almost as if there might actually be some truth to the idea of miracle pregnancy.

 

[bigfield]

It's almost as if there might actually be some truth to the idea of miracle pregnancy.

It's amazing how some theists will bend over backwards to believe even the most transparent fictions.

You are just like children who struggle to maintain their belief in Father Christmas as they grow up. The difference is that you never grow up.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Using previous post;

It seems todays scientists claiming humans can have babies (Virgin births)without one of the parents, depending on the group who are experimenting without the mother or another group experimenting without the father having any involvement. (What more with an All Mighty creator ? )

There have been quite a few claims and the recent one of these claims is below. Artificial sperm ".

Radical: Chinese scientists claim the discovery could provide hope for infertile men

Scientists in the UK praised the "mammoth" achievement of their Chinese colleagues but said there were still many obstacles to be overcome before sperm-like cells grown in the laboratory could be of use to infertile men.

Professor Richard Sharpe, from the Medical Research Council Centre for Reproductive Health at the University of Edinburgh, said safety was a major issue.

"Bear in mind that if germ cells do not format their DNA correctly, it may not only affect the resulting individual but might also affect the next generation," he pointed out.

In spite of these encouraging results, we are still some way from immediately applying this technique as a potential cure for human male infertility," he continued. (What a great idea !? )

"It remains to be seen if this technique could be applied in humans to create sperm-like cells that might be usable in IVF."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/scientists-claim-can-create-babies-7441572

Abominations against the will of God .

I hate this attitude. Why is it abominations? Shouldn't God be happy about new human's regardless how they come to be?

Let's be honest, the method God came up with wasn't the smartest or most efficient.

 

[Juma]

Move along people. Nothing to see here.

Go back to your boring old schtick about the hypothesis that God doesn't exist.

1) there is no "no god hypotesis". There is onky millions of unsupported god hypotesises.
2) so you acknowledge that you think that not beleiving in god is boring. Then go play theism then, just dont bother grown ups.

 

[Learner]

I hate this attitude. Why is it abominations? Shouldn't God be happy about new human's regardless how they come to be?

Reconsidering part of my previous post. I could be wrong putting this IVF treatment together with the insane notion for example; growing human parts in animals to put into humans and all other similar cross human experimentation, the abominations . Just a matter of time these animals slip into the food chain ; animals with human DNA on our dinner tables.

In the context that if cells were from the very same individual who is infertile but is in need with his wife or partner to have a child , then perhaps the method may not be as bad in Gods eyes. I'm unsure at the moment with the term "artificial sperm"

Let's be honest, the method God came up with wasn't the smartest or most efficient.

There are billions of us in the world.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Reconsidering part of my previous post. I could be wrong putting this IVF treatment together with the insane notion for example; growing human parts in animals to put into humans and all other similar cross human experimentation, the abominations . Just a matter of time these animals slip into the food chain ; animals with human DNA on our dinner tables.

In the context that if cells were from the very same individual who is infertile but is in need with his wife or partner to have a child , then perhaps the method may not be as bad in Gods eyes. I'm unsure at the moment with the term "artificial sperm"

We already have plenty of human DNA in all our food. We share 40% of our genes with broccoli. All life on Earth is extremely closely related. On a geological time scale, once it got going our branch of life took over completely. We've been able to identify 22 organisms that are not related to humans. 21 are microscopic and only live on magma vents at the bottom of the ocean. The other one is fungus. Which is why it so often makes us sick when eating it. The rest of all live are basically are brothers and sisters. All of it. Even bacteria.

So I really don't see your problem with it? Why is any of these scientific experimentation abominations. I just don't get it. What rule are the violating? You seem to have strong opinions on it, so I'm guessing there's a very clear prohibition against this in the Bible?

Let's be honest, the method God came up with wasn't the smartest or most efficient.

There are billions of us in the world.

That's not an argument. I have no idea what you think that proves? It just means we're slightly better than the second best... whatever that occupies the same niche us us. They're all dead now. Who knows how even stupider their design was?

You're clearly not a woman. Periods? Explain that stupid shit. Dumbest solution ever to that problem. Or that human brains are too big for female birth canals. Before modern medicine it would lead to a staggering 25% of all women at some point dying in labour. We know why this is. It's just evolution. If we'd been a four legged animal our intelligence wouldn't cause a problem. But we're not. This is the compromise. "God" gambles with women's lives in order for us to have smart children. No intelligence designed that. If it was intelligence it was pure maliciousness in that case.

The human body has thousands upon thousands of stupid design choices. Our bodies look like a bunch of one off fixes. Stuff done in the meantime until a proper solution can be found. And then just left. And these have accumulated.

Just look at all the stuff that can kill us for stupid reasons.

 

[Malintent]

ummm.. adultery was punishable by death. when a woman becomes pregnant and the baby is not the husbands (or the woman is --GASP--- UNMARRIED!!) there will be blood shed.

That not plain enough to see why claims of 'virgin birth' ever existed? seems simple and obvious to me.

We have faith that the virgin birth of Jesus happened, because we have faith that God created the universe and life in the beginning. All the miracles of Jesus, are very small in comparison to the creation of the universe and life.

You owe me $1,000. You should believe me because that is a very small number ,compared to the $1,000,000 your mother owes me.

 

[Eric H]

If only you had spent some effort on finding out facts - stuff for which faith is unnecessary,.

In the absence of any real facts for the origin of space-time and matter, I shall depend on my faith in God.

Do you know the real facts, as to how the universe came to be?

while creating something from nothing breaches the First Law of Thermodynamics, and is therefore sufficiently difficult to qualify as 'impossible'.

Agreed, so how do you explain the origin of space-time and matter, without God?

 

[Eric H]

We have faith that the virgin birth of Jesus happened, because we have faith that God created the universe and life in the beginning. All the miracles of Jesus, are very small in comparison to the creation of the universe and life.

You owe me $1,000. You should believe me because that is a very small number ,compared to the $1,000,000 your mother owes me.

You need to be more convincing, you could do with changing your user name from malintent for a start.

But just to show good will, if you tell me your bank details and pass codes, I might transfer the money.

 

[Sarpedon]

And yet you give 10% of your money to priests who promise you life after death. I'd trust Malintent sooner than I'd trust any of them. 1,000 dollars is a quite small compared to the total amount you tithe over your life.