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War Against Iran?

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
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https://twitter.com/Thom_Hartmann

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US deploys aircraft carrier and bombers after 'troubling indications' from Iran

In a written statement, Bolton said the ships and planes were intended “to send a clear and unmistakable message to the Iranian regime that any attack on United States interests or on those of our allies will be met with unrelenting force.”

Our "ally", Saudi Arabia, is currently at war in Yemen against Houthi forces who are backed by Iran.

It's clearly established that Trump thinks wars are a good way to shore up support, especially since an election is upcoming.

Will we be going to war against Iran soon?
 
Trump is a chickenshit bully. He talks tough, but I doubt he is willing to send people to death over this.
 
Saw it on the news. The Country Joe song from the 60s comes to mind.

"And its 1,2,3,4 what are we fighting for? Don't ask me I don't give a damn. The next stop is Vietnam."

Also the Gulf Of Tonkin incident that was used as justification for expanding war. Iran needs to be very careful. No more runs at US ships with small boats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident

The Gulf of Tonkin incident (Vietnamese: Sự kiện Vịnh Bắc Bộ), also known as the USS Maddox incident, was an international confrontation that led to the United States engaging more directly in the Vietnam War. It involved either one or two separate confrontations involving North Vietnam and the United States in the waters of the Gulf of Tonkin. The original American report blamed North Vietnam for both incidents, but eventually became very controversial with widespread belief that at least one, and possibly both incidents were false, and possibly deliberately so. On August 2, 1964, the destroyer USS Maddox, while performing a signals intelligence patrol as part of DESOTO operations, was pursued by three North Vietnamese Navy torpedo boats of the 135th Torpedo Squadron.[1][5] Maddox fired three warning shots and the North Vietnamese boats then attacked with torpedoes and machine gun fire.[5] Maddox expended over 280 3-inch (76.2 mm) and 5-inch (127 mm) shells in a sea battle. One U.S. aircraft was damaged, three North Vietnamese torpedo boats were damaged, and four North Vietnamese sailors were killed, with six more wounded. There were no U.S. casualties.[6] Maddox "was unscathed except for a single bullet hole from a Vietnamese machine gun round."[5]

It was originally claimed by the National Security Agency that a Second Gulf of Tonkin incident occurred on August 4, 1964, as another sea battle, but instead evidence was found of "Tonkin ghosts"[7] (false radar images) and not actual North Vietnamese torpedo boats. In the 2003 documentary The Fog of War, the former United States Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara admitted that the August 2 USS Maddox attack happened with no Defense Department response, but the August 4 Gulf of Tonkin attack never happened.[8] In 1995, McNamara met with former Vietnam People's Army General Võ Nguyên Giáp to ask what happened on August 4, 1964 in the second Gulf of Tonkin Incident. "Absolutely nothing", Giáp replied.[9] Giáp claimed that the attack had been imaginary.[10]

The outcome of these two incidents was the passage by Congress of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which granted President Lyndon B. Johnson the authority to assist any Southeast Asian country whose government was considered to be jeopardized by "communist aggression". The resolution served as Johnson's legal justification for deploying U.S. conventional forces and the commencement of open warfare against North Vietnam.

In 2005, an internal National Security Agency historical study was declassified; it concluded that Maddox had engaged the North Vietnamese Navy on August 2, but that there were no North Vietnamese naval vessels present during the incident of August 4. The report stated, regarding the first incident on August 2:


at 1500G, Captain Herrick ordered Ogier's gun crews to open fire if the boats approached within ten thousand yards (9,150 m). At about 1505G, Maddox fired three rounds to warn off the communist [North Vietnamese] boats. This initial action was never reported by the Johnson administration, which insisted that the Vietnamese boats fired first.[5]
 
Can you think of a better way to distract the country from the Mueller report and up Drumpf's re-election chances? I can’t. Rally around the flag boys!

SLD
 
Can you think of a better way to distract the country from the Mueller report and up Drumpf's re-election chances? I can’t. Rally around the flag boys!

SLD

You mean the ones draped over the coffins?
 
Our "ally", Saudi Arabia, is currently at war in Yemen against Houthi forces who are backed by Iran.
If you look at the map, it becomes obvious that Iran is trying to encircle KSA. Is Sudan next on the list of targets for the weird beards?
I think Congress is wrong for voting to leave Yemen and let it fall under Iranian control.
The Houthi motto is "God Is Great, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse on the Jews, Victory to Islam" I can see why the likes of AOC, Rahsida Tlaib or Ilhan Omar would like that group, but why the rest of the people who voted for the anti-Yemen resolution?

It's clearly established that Trump thinks wars are a good way to shore up support, especially since an election is upcoming.
Yeah, Trump did not come up with that. I am sure even Roman consuls stirred up some trouble with the Gauls or Thracians whenever there was some trouble at home. Nothing like a triumph to lift the national spirits.

Will we be going to war against Iran soon?

Very unlikely, unless the weird beards do something stupid, like attack the carrier battle group. And even then it would be a limited engagement, taking out command and control, naval, missile etc. facilities from the air. A land war in Iran without some dire need would be incredibly stupid and not even Trump is that dumb.

P.S.: Thom Hartman can't be taken seriously anyway.
 
If you look at the map, it becomes obvious that Iran is trying to encircle KSA. Is Sudan next on the list of targets for the weird beards?
I think Congress is wrong for voting to leave Yemen and let it fall under Iranian control.
The Houthi motto is "God Is Great, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse on the Jews, Victory to Islam" I can see why the likes of AOC, Rahsida Tlaib or Ilhan Omar would like that group, but why the rest of the people who voted for the anti-Yemen resolution?


Yeah, Trump did not come up with that. I am sure even Roman consuls stirred up some trouble with the Gauls or Thracians whenever there was some trouble at home. Nothing like a triumph to lift the national spirits.

Will we be going to war against Iran soon?

Very unlikely, unless the weird beards do something stupid, like attack the carrier battle group. And even then it would be a limited engagement, taking out command and control, naval, missile etc. facilities from the air. A land war in Iran without some dire need would be incredibly stupid and not even Trump is that dumb.

P.S.: Thom Hartman can't be taken seriously anyway.

Or the US does something stupid like shooting down an Iranian civilian airliner. But we would never do that. Again.

SLD
 
Or the US does something stupid like shooting down an Iranian civilian airliner. But we would never do that. Again.

SLD

That was a mistake. The ship misidentified the aircraft while being under fire by Iranian speedboats. I.e. the initial stupid thing was done by the weird beards. Iranian just love to use their speedboats to harass US naval ships in the Gulf. If a war between US and Iran breaks out, I would be willing to bet top dollar that Iranian speedboats will be involved in the triggering event.
 
Derec, your pervasive religion based insults really degrade your arguments.

What religion based insults? The "weird beard" moniker? That's a reference to Iran being a theocracy. If you can't mock a theocratic regime on an atheist forum, what's the point of an atheist forum?
 
Or the US does something stupid like shooting down an Iranian civilian airliner. But we would never do that. Again.

SLD

That was a mistake. The ship misidentified the aircraft while being under fire by Iranian speedboats. I.e. the initial stupid thing was done by the weird beards. Iranian just love to use their speedboats to harass US naval ships in the Gulf. If a war between US and Iran breaks out, I would be willing to bet top dollar that Iranian speedboats will be involved in the triggering event.

A mistake? Mistakes lead to war all the time. Gulf of Tonkin. Ask Admiral Stockdale. Gulf War I, ask April Glaspie. Those events led to 911 and OIF. Wars are often started as mistakes. Putting a carrier in a provocative is good way to start another mistake.

SLD
 
Who expexts to gain from a war against Iran? That explains everything. Wars are always the result of rich and powerful people seeking more wealth and power at someone elses expense. The main difference is which brainwashing tool they use to manipulate and control the masses - religion, go to war for god and church. Nationalism or patriotism, go to war for king and country. Fear and hatred, go to war because they want to kill you, rape your wives and daughters and enslave your sons. Greed, go to war and we'll all get rich.

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As I remember itt the Iran jet incident was likely Iranian provocation. Small Iranian boats have continued to make threating runs at ships. A small Navy boat lost power and was taken by Iran.

The response from Iran now seems to be that they get the message.

There was the USS Pueblo seized by NK and we did nothing. North Korea sank a SK ship with a sub, no response.

In the 80s a Chinese fighter clipped a Navy patrol plane in international space and had to land in China. Not too long ago China seized a US underwater drone in international waters. China is threatening action for violating what they calm as Chinese waters and space, now international waters.

China has crashed into Philippine fishing vessels.

Russian fighters buzzing Navy ships.

Perhaps we have been too timid.
While I do not like Trump I agreed with his upping the ante with NK threatening military action and bomber fly byes. It brought NK to the table and the rhetoric has gone down.

Iran funded terrorism is the main cause of regional instability. Saudiisn are complicent as well bit it is primarily Iran.

It has been reported from inside Iran any American attack would galvanize Iranians. I heard the same from Iran immigrants I knew. GWB's hard rhetoric on Iran only increased hardline power.


The idea of forcing regime change in Iran is lunacy. Yet another civil war.

I'd bet Iran would fold in a showdown for the same reason NK did, at least initially. The leadership knows if there is a war the elite privileged classes' lifestyle comes to an end.
 
As I remember itt the Iran jet incident was likely Iranian provocation.
No, that was probably heavy-handed direction from above.

I suspect that the ships in the area were first told to minimize contact, don't overreact, respond with lesser means, let's not cause an international incident... And the USS Stark got hit by a jet. Thirty some dead, almost as many wounded.

The direction that would have gone out after that would have been to be very paranoid and very protective of our crews. And the USS Vincennes shot down the airliner it thought was attacking. Ratcheted up a teensy bit high, there...

So, no, we're probably not going to do that again. There will be more guidelines about exactly what level of aggression to display, how much time to spend being really, really REALLY sure that the aircraft on an attack run is on an attack run, stuff like that. The military is very good at learning how to fight battles that are already over.
 
As I remember itt the Iran jet incident was likely Iranian provocation.
No, that was probably heavy-handed direction from above.

I suspect that the ships in the area were first told to minimize contact, don't overreact, respond with lesser means, let's not cause an international incident... And the USS Stark got hit by a jet. Thirty some dead, almost as many wounded.

The direction that would have gone out after that would have been to be very paranoid and very protective of our crews. And the USS Vincennes shot down the airliner it thought was attacking. Ratcheted up a teensy bit high, there...

So, no, we're probably not going to do that again. There will be more guidelines about exactly what level of aggression to display, how much time to spend being really, really REALLY sure that the aircraft on an attack run is on an attack run, stuff like that. The military is very good at learning how to fight battles that are already over.

The Vincennes incident was caused by an aggressive hard charging CO who thought he was God because he commanded a US warship. He charged into Iranian territorial waters and ignored orders to stand back and return to his station. He was attacked by Iranian gunboats, saw the plane on radar and panicked. He claimed his radar indicated that the plane was descending, but no other radar operator that day did. He saw what he wanted to see.

SLD
 
Iran funded terrorism is the main cause of regional instability. Saudiisn are complicent as well bit it is primarily Iran.
That's funny. You haven't happened to have heard of Syria, ISIS, and Libya? To not include the US in that list of bad actors is just...
 
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