Was this sexual assault? What's the appropriate response?

[Metaphor]

Just imagining Legolas asking himsenlf 'what would Jack Sparrow do?'
And as he's throwing a dead pirate over the rail, Jack raises one eyebrow. 'And this is what you have arrived at?'

I wonder if a googled site told him to assault her in an isolated spot, in which case he is responsible in that 'this is the site you arrived at.'

Or if he just completely misread a more socially helpful site. Then he is responsible in 'this is the interpretation you arrived at.'

Either way, he needs a social worker.

It's possible he reached a site aimed more at "flirting" which I can imagine would instruct someone to gently touch an elbow or something like that.

But whatever he googled or whatever interpretation he came up with, I simply cannot see either of these actions as 'sexual' assaults. It seems to turn solely on the idea that the girl believed he intended to touch her breast the first time, when that isn't what he did.

It also seems like the judge has an empathy gap for anxious introverts and says explicitly he cannot imagine any motive other than sexual.

 

[Metaphor]

The quote posted by OP is a snippet. I am sure there is much more to the story. But again anything to super scrutinize females to call criticism to.....

I shorten reports and articles in the quotes for two main reasons. First, I remove material not centrally relevant to the story or the discussion points so that the OP isn't a tldr wall of text. Second, as a courtesy to the message board, which may get flagged for copyright if the entire article is reproduced.

However, I always try to provide a non-paywalled link to the original story right at the top, which I've done in this case also.

 

[laughing dog]

Just imagining Legolas asking himsenlf 'what would Jack Sparrow do?'
And as he's throwing a dead pirate over the rail, Jack raises one eyebrow. 'And this is what you have arrived at?'

I wonder if a googled site told him to assault her in an isolated spot, in which case he is responsible in that 'this is the site you arrived at.'

Or if he just completely misread a more socially helpful site. Then he is responsible in 'this is the interpretation you arrived at.'

Either way, he needs a social worker.

It's possible he reached a site aimed more at "flirting" which I can imagine would instruct someone to gently touch an elbow or something like that.

But whatever he googled or whatever interpretation he came up with, I simply cannot see either of these actions as 'sexual' assaults. It seems to turn solely on the idea that the girl believed he intended to touch her breast the first time, when that isn't what he did.

It also seems like the judge has an empathy gap for anxious introverts and says explicitly he cannot imagine any motive other than sexual.

It is possible Mr Griffiths did not seem credible to the judge. And we did not witness Mt Griffiths actions (exactly how did he touch). So there may not be an empathy gap.

 

[Metaphor]

Not for everyone. I would find it creepy if either Ms Lopez or Ms Robbie touched me without my permission, and they are both attractive,

Wasn't Katy Perry in hot water recently for inappropriate touching of men?

Katy Perry sexually assaulted a contestant on American Idol in front of millions.

When Glaze, a cashier from Oklahoma, responded, "I have never been in a relationship and I can’t kiss a girl without being in a relationship.” Perry leapt from her seat, and said, "come here right now."


First, she faced her cheek towards him and he kissed it, but after requesting a second kiss on the cheek, she swung her face towards him as he approached and kissed him quickly on the lips.
He stumbled backwards, clearly shocked, and said, "you didn't!" - while Perry put her arms in the air.


But the seemingly innocent exchange was upsetting for Glaze, now 20, who revealed in an interview with The New York Times, that it was the first kiss he ever had.
Glaze says he never consented to the kiss, and said he would have declined had Perry asked him first.
“I wanted to save it for my first relationship," he explained. "I wanted it to be special."
He continued, "Would I have done it if she said, ‘Would you kiss me?’ No, I would have said no."

Basically, Katy Perry is trash who suffered no professional repercussions for her intended and publically witnessed sexual assault.

But, the rules around sexual assault are perceived differently by society when women assault men, and gender neutral laws are enforced differently (except when adult females prey on male adolescents, for which the zeitgeist has mercifully shifted to "not to be tolerated").

 

[laughing dog]

Katy Perry sexually assaulted a contestant on American Idol in front of millions.

When Glaze, a cashier from Oklahoma, responded, "I have never been in a relationship and I can’t kiss a girl without being in a relationship.” Perry leapt from her seat, and said, "come here right now."


First, she faced her cheek towards him and he kissed it, but after requesting a second kiss on the cheek, she swung her face towards him as he approached and kissed him quickly on the lips.
He stumbled backwards, clearly shocked, and said, "you didn't!" - while Perry put her arms in the air.


But the seemingly innocent exchange was upsetting for Glaze, now 20, who revealed in an interview with The New York Times, that it was the first kiss he ever had.
Glaze says he never consented to the kiss, and said he would have declined had Perry asked him first.
“I wanted to save it for my first relationship," he explained. "I wanted it to be special."
He continued, "Would I have done it if she said, ‘Would you kiss me?’ No, I would have said no."

Basically, Katy Perry is trash who suffered no professional repercussions for her intended and publically witnessed sexual assault.

But, the rules around sexual assault are perceived differently by society when women assault men, and gender neutral laws are enforced differently (except when adult females prey on male adolescents, for which the zeitgeist has mercifully shifted to "not to be tolerated").

At the of the linked article, Mr Glaze disavows his earlier comments about the kiss.

 

[Metaphor]

Katy Perry sexually assaulted a contestant on American Idol in front of millions.

When Glaze, a cashier from Oklahoma, responded, "I have never been in a relationship and I can’t kiss a girl without being in a relationship.” Perry leapt from her seat, and said, "come here right now."


First, she faced her cheek towards him and he kissed it, but after requesting a second kiss on the cheek, she swung her face towards him as he approached and kissed him quickly on the lips.
He stumbled backwards, clearly shocked, and said, "you didn't!" - while Perry put her arms in the air.


But the seemingly innocent exchange was upsetting for Glaze, now 20, who revealed in an interview with The New York Times, that it was the first kiss he ever had.
Glaze says he never consented to the kiss, and said he would have declined had Perry asked him first.
“I wanted to save it for my first relationship," he explained. "I wanted it to be special."
He continued, "Would I have done it if she said, ‘Would you kiss me?’ No, I would have said no."

Basically, Katy Perry is trash who suffered no professional repercussions for her intended and publically witnessed sexual assault.

But, the rules around sexual assault are perceived differently by society when women assault men, and gender neutral laws are enforced differently (except when adult females prey on male adolescents, for which the zeitgeist has mercifully shifted to "not to be tolerated").

At the of the linked article, Mr Glaze disavows his earlier comments about the kiss.

Not quite. He says he didn't "feel sexually harassed" but he has not disavowed that the kiss was unexpected and unwanted and unconsented. Even if he had, the event itself was caught on multiple high definition cameras under studio lighting and is the best evidence you could possibly hope for in a case such as this.

Indeed, it is quite obvious Glaze is embarrassed by his romantic inexperience, and doesn't want to get Perry into trouble, and acknowledges that a significant section of society would expect him to regard the sexual assault as something to be desired.

Do the gender swap test: if a male judge had done the same thing to a 20 year old girl who revealed she had never kissed a guy, the outrage would be palpable, immediate, and career-ending.

Neither Glaze's feelings on the matter - shaped as they are by gendered expectations around sexual attention, nor the feelings of the girl from the OP story (who has reacted, in my opinion, in an extremely psychologically dysfunctional way to the two assaults) seem relevant to me (except I suppose for prosecutorial success). Either the situation is sexual assault or it isn't, and the Katy Perry assault was obviously sexual but Glaze's is not obviously so.

 

[laughing dog]

At the of the linked article, Mr Glaze disavows his earlier comments about the kiss.

Not quite. He says he didn't "feel sexually harassed" but he has not disavowed that the kiss was unexpected and unwanted and unconsented.

He disavowed previous comments snd said the kiss made him feel uncomfortable because it was unexpected.

Do the gender swap test: if a male judge had done the same thing to a 20 year old girl who revealed she had never kissed a guy, the outrage would be palpable, immediate, and career-ending.

From a kiss on the cheek? You’ve lost all perspective.

 

[Metaphor]

He disavowed previous comments snd said the kiss made him feel uncomfortable because it was unexpected.

He did not "disavow" the nature of the events, merely some public commentary on it.

Do the gender swap test: if a male judge had done the same thing to a 20 year old girl who revealed she had never kissed a guy, the outrage would be palpable, immediate, and career-ending.

From a kiss on the cheek? You’ve lost all perspective.

No, not from a kiss on the cheek. Read the article. Katy Perry pretended she was offering her other cheek for him to kiss but then turned it at the last moment so that it was a mouth on mouth kiss (what we call "pashing" in Australia).

Watch the footage. If you can't bring yourself to call what Katy Perry did "sexual assault", then I don't know what you WOULD call sexual assault. She pressured this poor boy, on national television, to kiss her (which he didn't want to do), and then, she pressured him to kiss her again, and then she escalated the situation by turning a coerced, though vaguely consented-to, kiss on the cheek to an unconsented mouth on mouth kiss.

I think of each of our perspectives it's yours that needs some more examination, laughing dog.

 

[Toni]

At the of the linked article, Mr Glaze disavows his earlier comments about the kiss.

Not quite. He says he didn't "feel sexually harassed" but he has not disavowed that the kiss was unexpected and unwanted and unconsented. Even if he had, the event itself was caught on multiple high definition cameras under studio lighting and is the best evidence you could possibly hope for in a case such as this.

Indeed, it is quite obvious Glaze is embarrassed by his romantic inexperience, and doesn't want to get Perry into trouble, and acknowledges that a significant section of society would expect him to regard the sexual assault as something to be desired.

Do the gender swap test: if a male judge had done the same thing to a 20 year old girl who revealed she had never kissed a guy, the outrage would be palpable, immediate, and career-ending.

Neither Glaze's feelings on the matter - shaped as they are by gendered expectations around sexual attention, nor the feelings of the girl from the OP story (who has reacted, in my opinion, in an extremely psychologically dysfunctional way to the two assaults) seem relevant to me (except I suppose for prosecutorial success). Either the situation is sexual assault or it isn't, and the Katy Perry assault was obviously sexual but Glaze's is not obviously so.

It’s hard to tell for certain how unreasonable the girl in the OP was in her reactions to the young man’s touching. It could have been just awkward and clueless as the young man alleged or more threatening. I’ve seen things happen both ways.

I didn’t see what Katy Perry did but as described, it sounds very inappropriate. She put a young man on the spot in public when there was no graceful way to respond. I hope that she was told to never do such a thing again.

I think many or most of us have been surprised by an unexpected and therefore not consented kiss. Sometimes such kisses are welcome surprises and sometimes they are not. The unwelcome kind can simply be unwelcome and perhaps unpleasant. Or it can be more sinister and threatening—and deliberately so. I don’t think that Petty had sinister motivations here but at the very least, it put a young person in a very awkward position. I don’t think either the young man’s actions or Perry’s rose to the level of sexual assault as described here. But I know I don’t have the full story. It is easy to see why someone would feel more threatened by someone —a strange, in this case, who seemingly laid in wait for her.

 

[Metaphor]

At the of the linked article, Mr Glaze disavows his earlier comments about the kiss.

Not quite. He says he didn't "feel sexually harassed" but he has not disavowed that the kiss was unexpected and unwanted and unconsented. Even if he had, the event itself was caught on multiple high definition cameras under studio lighting and is the best evidence you could possibly hope for in a case such as this.

Indeed, it is quite obvious Glaze is embarrassed by his romantic inexperience, and doesn't want to get Perry into trouble, and acknowledges that a significant section of society would expect him to regard the sexual assault as something to be desired.

Do the gender swap test: if a male judge had done the same thing to a 20 year old girl who revealed she had never kissed a guy, the outrage would be palpable, immediate, and career-ending.

Neither Glaze's feelings on the matter - shaped as they are by gendered expectations around sexual attention, nor the feelings of the girl from the OP story (who has reacted, in my opinion, in an extremely psychologically dysfunctional way to the two assaults) seem relevant to me (except I suppose for prosecutorial success). Either the situation is sexual assault or it isn't, and the Katy Perry assault was obviously sexual but Glaze's is not obviously so.

It’s hard to tell for certain how unreasonable the girl in the OP was in her reactions to the young man’s touching. It could have been just awkward and clueless as the young man alleged or more threatening. I’ve seen things happen both ways.

I didn’t see what Katy Perry did but as described, it sounds very inappropriate. She put a young man on the spot in public when there was no graceful way to respond. I hope that she was told to never do such a thing again.

I think many or most of us have been surprised by an unexpected and therefore not consented kiss. Sometimes such kisses are welcome surprises and sometimes they are not. The unwelcome kind can simply be unwelcome and perhaps unpleasant. Or it can be more sinister and threatening—and deliberately so. I don’t think that Petty had sinister motivations here but at the very least, it put a young person in a very awkward position. I don’t think either the young man’s actions or Perry’s rose to the level of sexual assault as described here. But I know I don’t have the full story. It is easy to see why someone would feel more threatened by someone —a strange, in this case, who seemingly laid in wait for her.

Watch the footage--although it is fucking cringeworthy. After coercing him to kiss her a second time (on the cheek), she moves her head to kiss him on the mouth). The victim of her assault is so taken aback he literally stumbles backwards. She high-fives the other judges afterwards for goodness' sake, as if she were a frat-boy who just copped a feel!

 

[laughing dog]

He did not "disavow" the nature of the events, merely some public commentary on it.

He disavowed his comments.

No, not from a kiss on the cheek. Read the article. Katy Perry pretended she was offering her other cheek for him to kiss but then turned it at the last moment so that it was a mouth on mouth kiss (what we call "pashing" in Australia).

Watch the footage. If you can't bring yourself to call what Katy Perry did "sexual assault", then I don't know what you WOULD call sexual assault.

So when my mother, aunt, grandmother, father or grandfather gave me an unwanted kiss on the mouth, I was sexuallly assaulted? You really need to take a chill pill.

 

[Metaphor]

He did not "disavow" the nature of the events, merely some public commentary on it.[//quote] He disavowed his comments.

From a kiss on the cheek? You’ve lost all perspective.

No, not from a kiss on the cheek. Read the article. Katy Perry pretended she was offering her other cheek for him to kiss but then turned it at the last moment so that it was a mouth on mouth kiss (what we call "pashing" in Australia).

Watch the footage. If you can't bring yourself to call what Katy Perry did "sexual assault", then I don't know what you WOULD call sexual assault.

So when my mother, aunt, grandmother, father or grandfather gave me an unwanted kiss on the mouth, I was sexuallly assaulted?

If your mother, aunt, grandmother, father or grandfather, after teasing you on national television about being a virgin, and then pretending they just want a kiss on the cheek, and then deliberately turning your kiss on the cheek into a mouth kiss, and then laughed and high-fived other family members for having done so, I'd say yes, you've been sexually assaulted.

I'm sorry you have such a blind spot for unwanted, unconsented and unexpected sexual advances as assault.

 

[laughing dog]

So when my mother, aunt, grandmother, father or grandfather gave me an unwanted kiss on the mouth, I was sexuallly assaulted?

If your mother, aunt, grandmother, father or grandfather, after teasing you on national television about being a virgin, and then pretending they just want a kiss on the cheek, and then deliberately turning your kiss on the cheek into a mouth kiss, and then laughed and high-fived other family members for having done so, I'd say yes, you've been sexually assaulted.

Luckily fir Ms Perry, the American public and local law enforcement are not humorless, kneejerk prissy killjoys.

I'm sorry you have such a blind spot for unwanted, unconsented and unexpected sexual advances as assault.

You really need to take a chill pill. Then you can come out from under your brd,

 

[thebeave]

Seems Katy Perry is a serial sexual assaulter:

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2019/08/15/katy-perry-sexual-assault/

Then, on August 14th, 34-year-old model Josh Kloss made a far more serious accusation. He and Perry met in 2010 during the filming of the video for “Teenage Dream.” Kloss said the pair met socially a few times, and further claims that, during a party, Perry exposed his genitals to numerous people in attendance by forcibly pulling down his pants.

In the latest accusation, Tina Kandelaki, who is a television host in the country of Georgia, says that she met Perry at an industry party. Kandelaki claims that, when she met Perry, the singer was not only quite intoxicated but that she also tried to both kiss and touch her in a sexual way. Kandelaki further claims that she witnessed Perry acting inappropriately with other people at the party as well.

And yet, Katy seems to keep going on her merry way...

 

[Rhea]

Katy Perry sexually assaulted a contestant on American Idol in front of millions.

When Glaze, a cashier from Oklahoma, responded, "I have never been in a relationship and I can’t kiss a girl without being in a relationship.” Perry leapt from her seat, and said, "come here right now."


First, she faced her cheek towards him and he kissed it, but after requesting a second kiss on the cheek, she swung her face towards him as he approached and kissed him quickly on the lips.
He stumbled backwards, clearly shocked, and said, "you didn't!" - while Perry put her arms in the air.


But the seemingly innocent exchange was upsetting for Glaze, now 20, who revealed in an interview with The New York Times, that it was the first kiss he ever had.
Glaze says he never consented to the kiss, and said he would have declined had Perry asked him first.
“I wanted to save it for my first relationship," he explained. "I wanted it to be special."
He continued, "Would I have done it if she said, ‘Would you kiss me?’ No, I would have said no."

Basically, Katy Perry is trash who suffered no professional repercussions for her intended and publically witnessed sexual assault.

But, the rules around sexual assault are perceived differently by society when women assault men, and gender neutral laws are enforced differently (except when adult females prey on male adolescents, for which the zeitgeist has mercifully shifted to "not to be tolerated").

Wow, that is really repugnant. I’m disappointed that they did not give her serious consequences for that. I feel for the contestant who may not be able to get over that feeling of being ambushed.

I don’t know anything about this case, but from what you wrote, the way she made it impossible for him to escape and then the public nature and power imbalance makes it impossible for him to maintain his complaint.

 

[Rhea]

So when my mother, aunt, grandmother, father or grandfather gave me an unwanted kiss on the mouth, I was sexuallly assaulted? You really need to take a chill pill.

I gotta say, if grandparents or aunts/uncles kissed me unwanted on the mouth, I’d be creeped out. If it came after a conversation about me never having kissed anyone, if would be doubly creepy.

 

[Rhea]

So when my mother, aunt, grandmother, father or grandfather gave me an unwanted kiss on the mouth, I was sexuallly assaulted? You really need to take a chill pill.

I gotta say, if grandparents or aunts/uncles kissed me unwanted on the mouth, I’d be creeped out. If it came after a conversation about me never having kissed anyone, if would be doubly creepy.

Expanding on that:

• If a stranger comes up and kisses me on the mouth, it’s pretty serious. It’s offensive and a violation of my person.
• If a coworker comes up and does that uninvited, do they get some kind of pass because they know me? (this happened to me once. I was so surprised an unprepared, he ended up kissing my teeth. That was 35 years ago, the creepiness of it has not gone away)
• If a grandparent or Aunt or Uncle does it, do THEY get some sort of pass on my body because we share DNA?
• If my SPOUSE does it, and I don’t want it - he is not entitled to a pass (now, at last, because it used to be he could do anything to my body regardless of my consent)

I’m not a prissy kneejerk killjoy for wanting to keep other people’s mouths off of my lips.
In the case of the OP and the case of the Katy Perry example, the victim is right to feel violated and NO ONE is entitled to touch them, especially on the mouth.

In the case of the OP, it appears there was no intent to violate, so it seems like education is in order, not incarceration.
In the case of the Perry incident, I feel that should have been treated seriously.

My 2¢

 

[laughing dog]

So when my mother, aunt, grandmother, father or grandfather gave me an unwanted kiss on the mouth, I was sexuallly assaulted? You really need to take a chill pill.

I gotta say, if grandparents or aunts/uncles kissed me unwanted on the mouth, I’d be creeped out. If it came after a conversation about me never having kissed anyone, if would be doubly creepy.

Expanding on that:

• If a stranger comes up and kisses me on the mouth, it’s pretty serious. It’s offensive and a violation of my person.
• If a coworker comes up and does that uninvited, do they get some kind of pass because they know me? (this happened to me once. I was so surprised an unprepared, he ended up kissing my teeth. That was 35 years ago, the creepiness of it has not gone away)
• If a grandparent or Aunt or Uncle does it, do THEY get some sort of pass on my body because we share DNA?
• If my SPOUSE does it, and I don’t want it - he is not entitled to a pass (now, at last, because it used to be he could do anything to my body regardless of my consent)

I’m not a prissy kneejerk killjoy for wanting to keep other people’s mouths off of my lips.
In the case of the OP and the case of the Katy Perry example, the victim is right to feel violated and NO ONE is entitled to touch them, especially on the mouth.

No one to my knowledge made any claims about what someone is entitled to do. I simply disagree that Ms Perry’s actions are obviously sexual assault.

 

[Toni]

So when my mother, aunt, grandmother, father or grandfather gave me an unwanted kiss on the mouth, I was sexuallly assaulted? You really need to take a chill pill.

I gotta say, if grandparents or aunts/uncles kissed me unwanted on the mouth, I’d be creeped out. If it came after a conversation about me never having kissed anyone, if would be doubly creepy.

I think so much depends on the individuals. One of my aunts would just grab us and wrap us up in her arms and say Gimme some sugaras she kissed us on the lips. It never occurred to me that it was creepy or inappropriate. It was perhaps overwhelming but overwhelming in the way that Christmas morning is. There was never anything but warmth and love in her embrace and it felt great to be a bit overwhelmed by the affection. I can’t imagine that kind of open affection coming from any of my other aunts and uncles.

 

[Rhea]

In the case of the OP and the case of the Katy Perry example, the victim is right to feel violated and NO ONE is entitled to touch them, especially on the mouth.

No one to my knowledge made any claims about what someone is entitled to do. I simply disagree that Ms Perry’s actions are obviously sexual assault.

By entitled, I mean allowed to do that with no consequences.
We do disagree - as someone who has had exactly that happen to me (co-worker surprising me with a kiss on the mouth), it was sexual and it was unwanted. It is so far out of line to me that it deserves attention. Kissing people on the mouth without their consent - and publicly like that! is not okay.